From: RuneQuest-Request@Glorantha.Holland.Sun.COM (RQ Digest Maintainer) To: RuneQuest@Glorantha.Holland.Sun.COM (Daily automated RQ-Digest) Reply-To: RuneQuest@Glorantha.Holland.Sun.COM (RuneQuest Daily) Subject: RuneQuest Daily, Wed, 26 Jan 1994, part 1 Content-Return: Prohibited Precedence: junk X-RQ-ID: Intro This is the RuneQuest Daily Bulletin, a mailing list on the subjects of Avalon Hill's RPG and Greg Stafford's world of Glorantha. It is sent out once per day in digest format. More details on the RuneQuest Daily and Digest can be found after the last message in this digest. --------------------- From: RuneQuest@glorantha.holland.sun.com (Daily automated RQ-Digest) Subject: This account has expired. Message-ID: <199401250821.DAA10956@inlet.cis.ufl.edu> Date: 24 Jan 94 22:21:18 GMT X-RQ-ID: 2891 You have sent mail to: RuneQuest@Glorantha.Holland.Sun.COM (Daily automated RQ-Digest) with the following as the subject line: Subject: RuneQuest Daily, Tue, 25 Jan 1994, part 2 The To: line of your message does not match the userid of the account receiving this message. This account may exist in a mailing list as: email@example.com or firstname.lastname@example.org or email@example.com This account no longer exists, please take any necessary actions, such as: -- removing this account from a mailing list -- removing this account from your alias file (personal or machine-wide) Thank you, firstname.lastname@example.org [This is an automagically generated reply.] --------------------- From: RuneQuest@glorantha.holland.sun.com (Daily automated RQ-Digest) Subject: This account has expired. Message-ID: <199401250821.DAA10983@inlet.cis.ufl.edu> Date: 24 Jan 94 22:21:54 GMT X-RQ-ID: 2892 You have sent mail to: RuneQuest@Glorantha.Holland.Sun.COM (Daily automated RQ-Digest) with the following as the subject line: Subject: RuneQuest Daily, Tue, 25 Jan 1994, part 1 The To: line of your message does not match the userid of the account receiving this message. This account may exist in a mailing list as: email@example.com or firstname.lastname@example.org or email@example.com This account no longer exists, please take any necessary actions, such as: -- removing this account from a mailing list -- removing this account from your alias file (personal or machine-wide) Thank you, firstname.lastname@example.org [This is an automagically generated reply.] --------------------- From: MAB@SAVAX750.RUTHERFORD.AC.UK (Mystic Musk Ox) Subject: cult info for ftp'ing Message-ID: <9401251243.AA20936@Sun.COM> Date: 25 Jan 94 09:45:00 GMT X-RQ-ID: 2893 >Quite a while ago someone on the mail list posted a whole lot of cult >information to a ftp site. At the time I did not have full internet access so >I didn't pay much attention. Now that I do have access can someone please >e-mail me the ftp site and the file name(s). Thanks!! >Malcolm I would also like to see this information! I know of the stuff on soda.berkeley.edu (Hippoi, Gyzar, Golden Bow) thanks, Mark --------------------- From: JARDINE@RMCS.CRANFIELD.AC.UK Subject: Mostai & Malkioni Message-ID: <9401251244.AB20936@Sun.COM> Date: 25 Jan 94 10:22:00 GMT X-RQ-ID: 2894 Mostali are not short bearded Malkioni! Recently people have been asking whether there are similarities between Mostali and Malkioni society. Now it is easy to understand why this question is asked as to an outside observer this appears to be the case. However, when they are examined in detail the two societies are seen to be profoundly different. Malkioni force people into a rigid caste structure by virtue of who their parents were without any regard for their talents or desires. Dwarfs are manufactured for a specific caste and optimised to carry out its functions. Dwarfs are also programmed to get their maximum enjoyment when successfully carrying out and completing their castes work. Thus Mostali society is better ordered with less internal friction that the forced Malkioni construct which may well be a poor imitation of the true harmony of Mostali society. The God Learners believed that Mostali use sorcery and they have spread that belief throughout Glorantha. The Mostali have not challenged this view as it is advantageous for the other races to be keep misinformed. True Mostali use a complicated system of mechanics which appears to the ignorant outsider to be similar to sorcery, however mechanics concentrates more on preservation and repair than on long range destructive effects. In short mechanics is strongly tied to the Stasis Rune where as Sorcery is tied to the Law rune. While the functions of these runes may have been confused by the God Learners even the most simple Orlanthi carl knows that Stasis is the natural preservation of order and Law is a rigid set of rules which forces people to conform. This is illustrated in the different runes associated with Lhankor Mhy (sometimes said to be associated with Mostal) in different places. In Dragon Pass he is associated with Stasis and Truth whereas in the West he is associated with Stasis and Law. Of course, the above only covers true (non-apostate, non-heretic) Mostali and not those who have strayed from there appointed work-tasks. These unfortunates are the result of corrupted programming caused by Chaos and are to be pitied and tollerated, until the World Machine is repaired and they can be reprogrammed in the absence of the friction which has caused their imperfect condition. Due to their malfunctions these defective dwarfs are unable to use Mechanics and so most of them resort to using sorcery as it is the most similar magic to that which they are unable to utilize. Of course, the fact that apostate and heretic dwarfs use sorcery reinforces the views of the ignorant and further serves to conceal the true natural of Mostali magic. ----- Lewis ----- --------------------- From: email@example.com (Sandy Petersen) Subject: re: RQ Daily Message-ID: <9401251710.AA12010@idcube.idsoftware.com> Date: 25 Jan 94 05:10:26 GMT X-RQ-ID: 2895 re: Gloranthan names Unlike many world-makers (M.A.R. Barker, J.R.R. Tolkien, etc.), Greg's interest has never been in linguistics, and he has no lengthy tedious dictionaries of Aldryami, or Darktongue. Basically, he comes up with names as he sees fit, in a fairly disorganized fashion. I've noticed a tendency for chaos names to be clumsy and hard to pronounce, and troll names tend to be alliterative, but I think Greg's "technique" is to see if a name sounds "right" to him. When working on the all-Gloranthan box (which magically transformed itself into the all-Genertela box, leaving the Seas and Pamaltela for later -- I hope), I tried to organize as many names as possible into like groups. But 'twas impossible for most of Genertela, for which I blame the God-Learner influence. someone (ngl?) writes: >Only problem with ignite without special backup is that you get shot >twice before these guys come into range. More often if they just >stay outside standard magic and thrown missile range... Remember that practitioners of Lunar Magic get an enhanced range on their spirit magic -- don't think they don't use it. >No Fantasy or pre-firearms warrior would ever have thought of >covering an advance or retreat with small missile fire (bows, >slings). Looky here -- I can't speak for Fantasy warriors -- they have little reference to the real world. A D&D warrior easily takes on ten times his number of less-skilled opponents and falls 30 meters without crippling injury. Didn't we turn to RQ to avoid this kind of unrealistic crapola? Pre-firearms warriors used missiles to cover advances and retreats all the time -- they just did it in a different manner. The Romans always flung their pila before charging -- the defenders were thus broken up and confused for just a second, then the Romans hit 'em. In the same way, the Vikings used thrown axes before charging, and the Mongols used missile fire to make opponents spread out, thinning their ranks before the lancers charged. The Crimean War example was perhaps not the best, because it was mostly a siege -- at which missile expenditure/hit-bad-guys ratios skyrocket. (During the Civil War, it didn't take any 5000 shots to hit your target -- more like 100). >the desired result is not the kill, but the temporary crippling of >the opponent, to use as slaves or sacrifices or to hold for ransom >afterwards. A "temporarily crippled" opponent generally died in an ancient battle. The killed/wounded ratio was the reverse of the modern one, except when fighting purely bow-armed foes. (The U.S. Cavalry in the Indian Wars found that 1 in 14 men wounded by arrows died, as I recall. Also, most fatalities were guys hit by multiple arrows.) But the majority of ancient battles were fought to kill the enemy, NOT to take slaves. The war might have been to gain slaves or conquests -- but the battles are still designed to beat the foe in the best manner known. Think of the wars of the Assyrians, the Byzantines, the Punic Wars, Tamerlane's dreadful invasion of Delhi -- they weren't half-assed attempts to cripple guys, but all-out destruction on a scale rarely reached even in modern war. The Athens-Sparta wars weren't fought for prisoners, but for complex political reasons. I feel that the Aztec Flower Wars are quite an exceptional development in the history of warfare. >Most actual killing occurred when the battle was decided. It is true that most killing occurred when the battle was already decided, but the purposeful killing -- the killing that mattered to the battle's outcome -- occurred when it was being fought. Once the important killing was won or lost, the huge bag of guys you got to kill in the retreat was a bonus -- your reward for winning the battle. >I like to think of them as similar to Scythian or Persian knights, >quite heavily armored and equipped with sabres, lances ... as well. I think of them as Mongols, Huns, or Scythians. Not so much Persians. While I'm sure there's plenty of lancers amongst the Pentans, they aren't jacks of all trades. Though an archer might have a spear or sword as back-up, he's still mainly an archer. >[re: the Market spell] There is no damage mentioned, The rules say, "identical to a Warding 1 in most respects". If you read the Travels of Biturian Varosh it's clear that the Market spell can hurt or kill you, if lots are stacked together with Create Great Market. I know that I and Greg have always played that it does damage, but obviously every campaign is privileged to make its own decisions about spell interpretation. >I like to think that 100 part time worshippers produce as much mana >as the sacrifice of one point of permanent POW, if rules values are >required. I'm sold. Until my players try to abuse this rule. >The only way the horse retained anything of fire is its temperament, >even according to the Hippoi myth. I, on the other hand, think that the horse is still the Beast of Fire, just as the Bull is the Beast of Air, and the Pig the Beast of Earth. So there. Nyah. >>I have read a text (I think in Troll Pak) which stated that the 1st >>Age Theyalans overthrew the horse nomads of Peloria with the help >>of... Ralian non-Sun-worshipping horse riders. These latter can >>only be the Galanini. >There can be plenty of horse-riding non-Sun worshipers. Tarsh exiles >ride horses. Malkioni ride horses. >>I was inaccurate again: I meant horse nomads. Yes, but did the Trollpak text refer to nomads or just riders? There's as yet no evidence that the Galanini are non-Sun-Worshipping. In my own campaign, they honor and respect the Sun and related cults, but most of them worship Galan, Hyalor, or Hunter. Okay. Here's my reasons for believing that the Praxians are not descendents of Hsunchen. 1) No Hsunchen eat their cult animals. They are kin, not prey. 2) Hsunchen magic turns you into your animal. No Praxian magic even remotely resembles this. 3) Ancestor Worship is NOT the same as Hsunchen worship, and in fact is quite different in both form and beliefs. 4) Hsunchen believe that they are descendents of their animals. The Praxians very clearly are not. They do provide worship to an Ancestress of their Herds, but it is to ensure the herds' safety and prosperity -- propitiatory worship. 5) Hsunchen is a religion, not a racial type. IF (and only IF) the Praxians were once Hsunchen way back before the Gods War, they are certainly no longer such in any degree. No Hsunchen would recognize them as co-religionists. 6) I deny the force of some of your examples. The Hsunchen venerate local forces of nature, as do the Praxians. But so does everyone else, from the Theyalans to the Oslir River people. The Praxians have the Paps. The Basmoli have Hrelar Amali. The trolls have a Castle of Lead. Are they Hsunchen? So, how'd I do? Did I penetrate the flame-proof suit, or were my arguments too specious? >I really have problems with the reasons why Eiritha would not allow >horses in Prax. Well, obviously it's not really Eiritha who's failing to allow horses in Prax, since the Pent nomads worship Eiritha, and they ride horses. However, Eiritha is used by the Pentans only to benefit their cattle herds, not their horses. >The Pamaltelan urban societies are either coastal, i.e. God Learner >tainted, or extinct, stemming from the Artmali Empire. (Fonrit >actually qualifies for both.) These pre-darkness Lunars had a >culture little is published about. The Doraddi have only recently >developed city-like structures, the wagon cities of the Kresh. This is true, but may be a tiny bit misleading for those who are not as versed in Pamaltelan history. Pamaltelan cities stem from several sources. The cities of Umathela and Fonrit were founded in the God Time, but were taken over by God Learners in the Second Age. The cities along the coasts of Elamle and Onlaks mostly come from the Second or Third Age, but were originally not God Learner (though they traded with them). A whole lot of cities were founded in the interior of the Doraddi lands during the Second Age -- this was the time of the Six-Legged Empire. Note that the Doraddi do NOT regard themselves as not-yet-urban primitives. They point out that in the Godtime, the Artmali Empire ruled their land. In the Second Age, the Six-Legged Empire ruled their land. They claim that civilization is the original state of mankind but is bad for the soul. They have chosen to go on to the next stage of development -- the happy nomad (i.e., Noble Red Man type stuff). They point out that in the Golden Age, everything was static and dull -- and civilized. Basically, they look at the development of mankind backwards from the common Genertelan view. Those few Pamaltelans that know a little about Genertela also point out that the same cultural development works there -- look at the Prax nomads, advanced now far "beyond" the civilized Golden Folk. The "wagon cities" of the Kresh are temporary constructs that dissolve after a season or so, to reform in a new place. re: Malkioni and Mostali I'd like to request that everyone using the word "Malkioni" when they really mean "Brithini" shape up! The Malkioni aren't opposed to reproduction, only the Brithini. The Malkioni aren't soulless, only the Brithini. The Malkioni aren't big jerks, only the Brithini. Sandy Petersen --------------------- From: firstname.lastname@example.org (Kirsten K. Niemann) Subject: Ferguson seeks a city Message-ID: <9401251809.AA28176@cabell.vcu.edu> Date: 25 Jan 94 18:09:33 GMT X-RQ-ID: 2896 Alex Fergeson: It seems to me that you are probably lacking the Genertela Book. If so, thos won't be much help. If you do have it, then look at the description of Red Fish City. it is up in the northwestern section of the empire, near Carmania, I think. I don't have my books here right now, so I can't check. In any case, I believe it was founded by the Conquering Daughter, or one of the Inspirations. She did it specifically to show the snotty Dara Happans that a good metropolis didn't have to be organized along solar lines. The city prospered, but has become Solarized anyway. However, this suntan is a later addition to the city, rather than a ancient fact burned into the psyches of the founders. It also sounds to me like a copy of the Glorious Reascent of Yelm would be very handy for you. Call the Wizard's Attic for how to get one, or else the Chaosium. If you have $25 to spare, that is. Mike Dawson >|< --------------------- From: SYS_RSH%PV0A@HOBBES.CCA.CR.ROCKWELL.COM (Scott Haney, AFDS770 Functional Test X2069) Subject: Looking for Information Message-ID: <01H83XUY8O6O8ZET0K@HOBBES.CCA.CR.ROCKWELL.COM> Date: 25 Jan 94 23:22:00 GMT X-RQ-ID: 2897 Greetings. I'm a RuneQuestor from way back, but due to a large lack of 1) time (theatre, work, theatre work) and 2) lack of players with imaginations, I haven't played for a while. Suddenly, I discover that the game is alive and well! I'd thought it dead, since my local game shops don't seem to carry RuneQuest materials. Can I get a list of who *does* carry RQ, or at least a mail order source? I'd like to get caught up. (I'm only current through the addition of sorcery...) Scott ___ __ /__/|__ Scott Haney, Insight Industries __/_/| |__|/_/|__ Group Leader, AFDS 770 Functional Test Team _/_|__|| |_|___|/_/|__ sys_rsh%AFDS@hobbes.cca.cr.rockwell.com __/_|____|| |___|____|/_/|__ __/_|____|__|| |_|___|_____|/_/|_____________________________________/_|_____|____|| |___|___|__|___|/__/___/___/___/___/___/___/___/___/_|_____|____|__|| |_|___|___|___|___|___|___|___|___|___|___|___|___|___|___|___|____|/ Laying the foundations of the world's best avionics --------------------- From: email@example.com (Carl Fink) Subject: RuneQuest Daily, Tue, 25 Jan 1994, part 1 Message-ID: <199401260137.AA02882@panix.com> Date: 25 Jan 94 15:37:50 GMT X-RQ-ID: 2898 Someone who doesn't sign his/her messages writes about similarities between Hsunchen and Praxians: R>The Hsunchen worship the Hunter as main source of meat. >Praxians worship Waha for slain herd beasts, Hunter for slain game. You are defining "worshipping a source of food" as a sign of Hsunchen ancestry? So worshipping Ernalda or the Barley Mother is also a sign of beast-man ways? R>The Hsunchen propitiate or venere predominant local forces of nature. >The Praxians propitiate Storm Bull, Gagarth, and they worship Storm Bull, >Zola Fel... Everyone except the Brithini and their ilk worships local nature forces. R>The Hsunchen worship a plethora of local spirits, summoned by the shamans >at holy places. >The Praxians worship a plethora of local spirits, summoned by the shamans >at the oasis altars in Prax. (e.g. Frog Woman) Every primitive culture does this. Are all primitives Hsunchen? R>Both practice ancestor worship to some extent. So do the Kralori, the Orlanthi, the Pamaltelans...in fact, most cultures. Are trolls Hsunchen? R>Both consider outsiders as less than human. No, they don't. R>Telmori consider their wolves as full members of their tribe. Praxians >don't do so, since Waha's covenant made the herd beasts unintelligent. "They're different, so that proves they're the same!" R>Praxians were active participants in the Gods War. >OK, we lack reports about the Hsunchen activities then. Given the >Basmoli Empire in Dawn Age Tanisor, they did, too. *Everyone* was an active participant in the Gods War. Haven't you been intiated into the I Fought We Won mystery? R>The Praxians have a solid holy place in the Paps. (They inherited it from >the Golden Age people). >The Basmoli erected Hrelar Amali. (They developed this themselves, or had >Godtime experience with this. They built it themselves.) Everyone including the baboons had a big city during the God Time. R>The Praxians worshipped a whole pantheon in Godtime. These gods are dead >now. >According to GL taxonomy, there exists a whole pantheon of beast ancestors >who died during Godtime. Plus the Hsunchen acknowledge the local earth >powers (proto-Grain goddesses, like Balazar Vyrope, or the goddess' aspects >in tRathorell;a, Ramalia, etc. Everyone acknowledges local earth powers except deliberate atheists like the Brithini. So? R>Now where except in the covenant introduced because of the special power >depletion in the Praxian chapparal do you see the great difference? Master >Hunters and Khans are not that different. All Rune Lords would have similarities. So? >...And in the >Pavis Common Knowledge booklet there is this picture in the wastes, where >lots of beasts (including the zebra, a beast only quite recently adopted into >the covenant) paid homage to Genert, a very conscious and intelligent act. Zebras existed in Prax in Genert's time. They were small and useless to men, but they existed. The founder of the Zebra tribe used heroquesting to create larger rideable zebras. R>I really have problems with the reasons why Eiritha would not allow horses >in Prax. She did so all the time between the Battles of Necklace Horse and >Alavan Argay, and ever since Derek Pol Joni retrieved the Black Net, the >horses are back in Prax, and thrive. Accepted, or was unable to expel? R>Is this all beast rider propaganda? The story about Joraz Kyrem's creation >of the War Zebras mentions psychological reasons only.