Bell Digest v940207p2

From: RuneQuest-Request@Glorantha.Holland.Sun.COM (RQ Digest Maintainer)
To: RuneQuest@Glorantha.Holland.Sun.COM (Daily automated RQ-Digest)
Reply-To: RuneQuest@Glorantha.Holland.Sun.COM (RuneQuest Daily)
Subject: RuneQuest Daily, Mon, 07 Feb 1994, part 2
Content-Return: Prohibited
Precedence: junk


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From: pound@is.rice.edu (Christopher Pound)
Subject: Dara Happa & Gloranthan Names
Message-ID: <9402052254.AA08009@is.rice.edu>
Date: 5 Feb 94 22:54:03 GMT
X-RQ-ID: 3037


cpearce@nemesis.acs.unt.edu (Chris Pearce) writes:
> People here are always strongly tempted to give Dara Happa an
> Egyptian culture. Could it be that the Great Green Greggie modeled
> Dara Happa after the Indus culture (of which I know blasted little)?

Culturally, probably not.  Dara Happans are rigidly patriarchal, treat
women like property, build tall towers, worship the sun, and lay their
cities out in circles.  While it's difficult to say much about the
specific cultural practices of the Indus civilization, probably none of
these things were true there.  Cities of the Indus valley are laid out
in a fairly grid-like manner and have no really tall structures (nothing
so spectacular as, say, a ziggurat or a pyramid).  The abundance of 
little exaggeratedly-feminine ceramic figurines found at Indus sites is
usually taken to mean there was some sort of fertility/goddess worship
going on.  For even more believable reasons, animals are thought to have
figured very prominently in the mythology of the Indus civilization.

If there's a Gloranthan parallel to the Indus civilization, it'd be those
ruins I invented ( :-) ) in Thoskal in Western Teshnos.  On the map in the
Genertela Book (p 87), you can even see something that looks like two
built-up hills just south of the Feethos River.  Probably, these cities
were destroyed or abandoned during Teshnos' Second Age occupation (during
which time "like all lands, it lost some of its gods") or maybe people
just got tired of dealing with raiders from the Wastelands (making it more
like what probably happened to Harappa; this explanation fits better with
the description of Thoskal anyway).

Anyway, the connection between the name Dara Happa and -Daro/Harappa 
reminds me that I've been meaning to distribute my Gloranthan name
generator ... It uses an algorithm you've probably seen before to build
new names based on the distribution of character triplets in a given
textual corpus, but it is written in perl (which probably makes it useless
to many Digest readers).  It works reasonably well, and I'm including a
little filter for it to get rid of little words and trim big ones.  
If your system is busy, it may take quite a few seconds for it to build
the table it uses to generate new words; it should be fairly obvious how
to add new words to its corpus or delete unusual ones.  Have fun.

(Oh, I added a bunch of hindu names to the gloranthan wordlist to get
Teshnan names; it worked great, giving me words with just the right mix
of sounds.  If anyone wants a copy of that, lemme know.)

Here's an example of the output; I'd expect you'd trim, pick, and choose
from a larger list if you were using this program in a campaign.

magorthi
makaxtor
korostist
darkor
darathola
harmakata
hsinaff
thorn
segananor
libain
eurznidil
iphen
palkarp
ouralo
simakarat

If you can't run this program and would like a list of a bunch of those
words to choose from, just send me mail.  I can easily blast out a thousand
or so unique words for you, lined up in columns for you too.  ;-)

#! /bin/sh
# This is a shell archive.  Remove anything before this line, then unpack
# it by saving it into a file and typing "sh file".  To overwrite existing
# files, type "sh file -c".  You can also feed this as standard input via
# unshar, or by typing "sh 'lc' <<'END_OF_FILE'
X#!/usr/local/bin/perl
X#
X# lc -- language confluxer
X#
X# written by Christopher Pound (pound@rice.edu) July 1993
X#
X# the datafile should be a bunch of words from some language
X# with minimal punctuation or garbage
X# 
Xsrand(time);
Xwhile (@ARGV) {
X  $_=shift(@ARGV);
X  if ((/^-/) && (/[0-9]/) && !(/[A-z]/)) {
X    $n=substr($_,1);
X  }
X  elsif ((!/^-/) && ($_ ne '')) {
X    open(DATA,$_) || die "$_ not found";
X    $d=1;
X  }
X}
Xif ((!$d)||(!$n)) {print "usage: lc -[number of words] datafile\n"; exit;}
Xwhile () {
X  chop;
X  for ($c=0; $c'good' <<'END_OF_FILE'
X#!/usr/local/bin/perl
X#
X# I wrote this really quick so you'd be happier with the
X# Gloranthan words that 'lc' generates.
X#
X# Example: lc -20 gloranthan-words | good | more
X#
Xwhile(<>) {
X  chop;
X  while (length($_)<4) {$a=<>; $_=$a; chop;}
X  if (length($_)>9) {$_=substr($_,0,9);} 
X  print "$_\n";
X}
END_OF_FILE
if test 299 -ne `wc -c <'good'`; then
    echo shar: \"'good'\" unpacked with wrong size!
fi
chmod +x 'good'
# end of 'good'
fi
if test -f 'gloranthan-words' -a "${1}" != "-c" ; then 
  echo shar: Will not clobber existing file \"'gloranthan-words'\"
else
echo shar: Extracting \"'gloranthan-words'\" \(4330 characters\)
sed "s/^X//" >'gloranthan-words' <<'END_OF_FILE'
Xacos aldrya aleshmara annilla aptanace arachne solara araganthosas aranea
Xargan argar arkat artmal asrelia atyar aurelion babeester gor bagog bolongo
Xbrastalos cacodemon caladra chalana arroy cronisper daga daka fal daliath
Xdanfive xaron daruda dayzatar deezola dehore dendara donandar dormal drospoly
Xehilm eiritha ernalda etyries eurmal faranar flamal framanthe gagarth gark
Xgata gbaji genert gerlant glorantha godunya golod gorgorma gustbran harana
Xilor heler himile hobimarong hon-eel hrestol humakt humct hwarin dalthippa
Xhyalor hykim mikyh ikadz inora iphara irrippi ontor issaries jakaleel jeset
Xjmijie kajabor kargan tor keraun kolat krarsht krjalk kyger litor lamsabi
Xlanbril larnste lhankor mhy lodril lokarnos loon lorian lumavoxvoran lux
Xmagasta mahome malia malkion manthi maran gor mastakos mee vorala metsyla
Xmikaday mirintha molanni mostal murthdrya natea nelat noruma nyanka nysalor
Xodayla ompalam orenoar orlanth ourania pamalt paslac phargon pocharngo
Xpolaris ragnaglar rasout ratslaff saliligor seseine selarn shavaya sikkanos
Xslor subere talor teelo norri telask thalurzni thanatar thed tholaina tien
Xtriolina tsankth ty kora tek tylenea uleria umath umbrol vadrus valind
Xvalkaro valzain vangono varchulanga vivamort voria vovisibor vrimak wachaza
Xwaertag waha wakboth worlath xemela xentha xiola umbar yamsur yanafal
Xtarnils yanmoria yara aranis yelm yelmalio yelorna yinkin zaktirra zaramaka
Xzong zorak zoran zzabur
Xargin brostange forang farosh gaiseron aggar agria ajaak akasta akem
Xalatan aldachur alehandro alkoth spol argrath arkat armorn arnlor arsden
Xarstola aruzban asgolan azilos baka balazar ballid banajasab basim basmol
Xbastis baustin oskor belathgert belstos bikhy bina bang boneric borin
Xboshan godunya brithini brol can shu carantes carman celmac chang tsai
Xcharg chi ting cho choralinthor daran janube naskorion otkorion sentanos
Xsmelch col congern corflu corola corostis darmangon culonmac dagori inkarth
Xdangim dangk dara happa daran darjiin darleep defin anostos delecti delela
Xluatha deu dilis dital dombain dona dorastor dorkath doskior dranz golo
Xdrom porfain ease easval egajia egarun einpor elz ast erengazor erenplose
Xerontree esrol estal estau estaurenic ethilrist fanza fazzur feethos felster
Xfethlon fiesive filichet fornoar foyalfine fral angor fraltigern fronela
Xfrowal fuknama galastar galin garsting garundyer garusharp gilboch ginorth
Xgio gonn orta goropheng grachamagacan graclodont grombul
Xguhan guiching guilmarn gundreken h'har as jing hachuan shan halikiv handra
Xhanjan harandash haranshold haraxalur harrek harstar helby hendreiki
Xheortland hingswell holay holut hrelar amali hsiang wan hsin yin hsunchen
Xdamal kralorela rathor telmor uncoling icilius imolo wen imther istakax
Xivex jairn janan vartool jankley bore jarngror jaubon jhor jillaro jolo
Xjonatela joranit jord jorri jrustel junor kaisen kallyr kanthor karasal
Xkarse karstall kartolin kaufan destrino kaxtorplose keanos ketha
Xkhorst kilwin kitor kocholang koromondol kost kostaddi kuchawn kui hui
Xlankst laonan tao laufol laurmal leplain lokow loskalm lur nop
Xgarusharp harandros mokwaha manday manir marost matkondu mazan melib ouri
Xmeriatan mirin mislar modaings moirades molene moralatap morocanth mortasor
Xmulliam nevs nidan nimistor noastor nochet nolos noloswal noran noyelle
Xokarn oral-ta oranor orathorn oraya orgrol ormsgone orninior oslir ozur
Xpalamtales palbar paps pasos pavis peidin pelor pent perfe pithdaros pomona
Xpomons porent porfain pralorela prax print puchai quinscion raibanth ralios
Xralzakark ramal rascius rathorela argan argar kalikos siglolf tolat yuthu
Xzitro argon retrint rhis rindland rist bailifes blackmor colymar volsax
Xcongern ryzel safelster saird salisor salona saranko sartar saug segurane
Xsentanos seshnela sha ming shiyang skanth smelch snodal sodal sofal sog
Xsolanth solanthos sor-eel spol storal suam chow surantyr surkorion syanor
Xsylila syndics syran talar malaskan talastar tanier tanisor tara tarasdal
Xtarins tarsh tastolar tawars telmor temertain teshnos theoblanc thoskal
Xtimms tinaros tink tiskos torang tork tortun trowjang tung shiu tzu lung
Xulifilas uton uzgor valant valind valsburg vanch vargatyr varnaro varskolin
Xvarthulwal vaska long vent vesmonstran voi volonne voshfrei wanzow wexten
Xwokistan worian yao fune yolanela yolp yuthuppa zanozar zorakarkat
END_OF_FILE
if test 4330 -ne `wc -c <'gloranthan-words'`; then
    echo shar: \"'gloranthan-words'\" unpacked with wrong size!
fi
# end of 'gloranthan-words'
fi
echo shar: End of shell archive.
exit 0

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From: mds2@ukc.ac.uk
Subject: Rules 'n' Stuff.
Message-ID: <9402052320.AA29634@Sun.COM>
Date: 5 Feb 94 23:19:10 GMT
X-RQ-ID: 3038

Hallo all,

Right, I'm new to the digest and so what I'm asking for will probably have been
done many a time in the past, but....

Does anyone have any "official/unofficial" rules and stuff that they wouldn't
mind sending me.

What I'm looking for mostly is cult description (that don't appear elsewhere)
and rules on Heroquesting/Illumination (or do any of the new rq suppliments
cover these?).  Also, a full list of runes, there meanings and "owners" would
be nice as I've never been able to compile a full list and we've (being me and
my fellow players) have never been able to come to a conclusion about the 
law/knowledge rune argument (maybe it's just us, but looking at the Gods that 
get the "triangle" rune, it seems more appropriate that it should be a 
Knowledge rather than law rune).

Right, that's it, just a simple request.. ah, just one other thing.  It would
make my life a hell of a lot easier if you could send stuff straight to me 
rather than to the digest, cause being an overworked student (ha ha) I don't
always have time to read all the digest stuff (also - piling through pages
upon pages of people arguing about one thing or another isn't my idea of fun!)

Email address - mds2@ukc.ac.uk

Right, ta very much and hope to hear from someone soon.

Mike..
:)


P.S. Oh yeah, any RQ muds out there anywhere??




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From: ddunham@radiomail.net (David Dunham)
Subject: Yelm Gods; Indus civilization; dragon magic
Message-ID: <199402060158.AA28040@radiomail.net>
Date: 6 Feb 94 01:58:24 GMT
X-RQ-ID: 3039

Joerg asked about the 111 gods of the Dara Happans, as displayed on the
Gods Wall. Not all of them are actually worshipped -- the wall includes
Uleria and Umatum, as well as Gods of the Earth who "may be worshipped
under supervision from the Gods of Above. Otherwise, it is unlawful and
leads to corruption and death." These include Dendara, Pela, and Sagitus.
And the Lower 25, "unfit for whole men or women to worship," including
Gorgorma.

Some of the gods on the wall are actually regalia, such as III-21 "Leafy
Plant. An accoutrement of III-22 [Erenbaya, Goddess of Vegetation,
especially Trees]."

Of interest to an earlier discussion is III-18: Durbaddath, "God of Lions.
He is also called the Father of Votank. Has head of a lion." And III-19:
Ergesh, "God of the Slaves. Secret: Actually is VOTANK, God of the Votank
People." (In the glossary: "However, considering the iconography, this GOds
Wall figure is probably Votank, ancestor of the Zarkosian Votanki tribe."
Zarkos is "Land of Serenity, in Era of Yelm." In the maps, it does seem to
be approximately Balazar.) Ergesh actually appears to be a child, holding
the hands of Durbaddath and III-20, Uryarda the Goat Goddess.

Chris Pearce wrote
>The main cities of the Indus rivier valley were
>Mohenjo Daro and Harappa. I was struck by the similarity in sound to
>Glorantha's Dara Happa.

I've always been struck by the similarity, too.

BTW, here in Washington state is the town of Yelm...

Mamoru Kurihara joined the list with
>YOROSHIKU ONEGAI SHIMASU (Its a greeting message in Japanese)

Welcome!

>I think there must be some non-Dragonewt cults/societies/tribes
>that have Dragon Magics from E.W.F. in Dragonpass/Prax.
>(Pavis was a Hero of E.W.F. so Cults of Pavis must have some)

I thought the Dragonkill War wiped all that out. Dragon Pass was had no
humans in it for 130 years afterwards.

The closest I know to humans using dragon magic are in Kralorela. There
could easily be other tribes, but they're no longer in Dragon Pass.

David Dunham * Software Designer * Pensee Corporation
Voice/Fax: 206 783 7404 * AppleLink: DDUNHAM * Internet: ddunham@radiomail.net
    "I say we should listen to the customers and give them what they want."
    "What they want is better products for free." --Scott Adams


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From: devinc@aol.com
Subject: Re: RuneQuest Daily, Fri, 04 Feb 1994, part 2
Message-ID: <9402052207.tn52789@aol.com>
Date: 6 Feb 94 03:07:09 GMT
X-RQ-ID: 3040

Thanks to those who revalidated my concerns about Illumination (even if my
original points were half-cocked). It has just seemed to me that Illumination
is an extremely important force in Glorantha, but that its significance has
not been given its fair due.

Has nayone else out there run a campaign wherein Illumination was featured as
a main component (and I dont necessarily mean that the Pcs were Illuminated)?

Devin Cutler
devinc@aol.com

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From: carlf@panix.com (Carl Fink)
Subject: Dragons, and welcome to Glorantha
Message-ID: <199402060459.AA18932@panix.com>
Date: 5 Feb 94 18:59:02 GMT
X-RQ-ID: 3041

QFF00036@niftyserve.or.jp (Mamoru Kurihara) writes:
 >Subject: Greetings.
 >Message-ID: <199402041711.CAA12880@inetnif.niftyserve.or.jp>
 >Date: 4 Feb 94 17:02:00 GMT
 >X-RQ-ID: 3022

R>I'm very interested in Dragonewts and Dragon Magics.

  So am I -- unfortunately little information is available.

R>I think there must be some non-Dragonewt cults/societies/tribes
 >that have Dragon Magics from E.W.F. in Dragonpass/Prax.
 >(Pavis was a Hero of E.W.F. so Cults of Pavis must have some)

R>How do you think of it ?

  There are very few remnants of the EWF, because the Invincible Golden
Horde (corresponding to the Tatars or Mongols) destroyed it, and then
the remnants were destroyed even further by the Dragonkill War.  Not a
single human being was (supposedly) still living in Dragon Pass after
this.

  At the beginning of the Hero Wars (when most published RQ material
takes place) the EWF seems to survive only as artifacts, ancient
devices.  Argrath is supposed to recreate the EWF magics to oppose the
Lunar Empire, but _King of Sartar_  doesn't seem to show him using many
EWF style magics (aside from being helped by True Dragons).

  Pavis' cult, as presented in the _Pavis_ pack, didn't have any Dragon
Magics.  I don't know whether this is because Pavis didn't give any to
his worshippers, or because Chaosium hadn't invented Dragon Magic yet.
I speculate that Pavis didn't use Dragon Magic himself, because the
Dragonewts living in his city didn't destroy it in the Dragonkill War
period.  Sandy? Greg?

  Dragon Magic-using humans are still found in Kralorela, but again only
limited information is available on them.
                                            

---------------------

From: ROBERTSON@delphi.intel.com (Roderick Robertson, SC1-5, x52936)
Subject: (Yu-)Kargzant Bound
Message-ID: <93D60F356002728A@delphi.intel.com>
Date: 7 Feb 94 00:15:00 GMT
X-RQ-ID: 3042


  First an apology to those who do not yet have a copy of The Glorious 
Reascent of Yelm, since that is what is being discussed below. 

  However, while I'm thinking on the subject of "un-obtainable material", 
while it is true that it is frustrating to read a debate in which you cannot
participate, it is no use telling us that "I do not have Such and Such a
supplement, and you should not use it in your arguments". How are we to
know who has which bit of information? Some people only have material
published since RQ3, others refuse to acknowledge anything published after
that. Some of us have been buying material since the beginning, or have
picked up things we don't have as we could get our hands on it. Flaming 
someone on the list because they *dare* to use something which you don't 
have is just bad manners.


Dave Dunham Writes: 
>Roderick Robertson wrote:
>>   I'm not so sure that Kargzant *has* the movement rune anymore - He 
>>was chained by Orlanatus, and the sun no longer careens around the sky. 
>>Perhapse this cut down on other movement abilities of the Nomads (Could
>>the Pentans fly before? Did Kargzant have Teleport type powers?) Gotta 
>>re-read the GRoY to figure out which group had the Bird-Cavalry.

>I derived the Movement rune in part from "Kargzant was a being who was
>never happy in one place," and from the reference to the "Wandering Sun."
>Also, this makes Yu-Kargzant runicly different from Yelm.

>Actually, I think he was chained by Hyalor, but that's speculation. He
>still moved in the sky after being chained.

>Unfortunately, The Glorious ReAscent of Yelm is a Dara Happan document; we
>need a Pentan story to know more about the nomads.

   My reply:

   Check P. 40 in GRoY. There Vuranostum is described as the son of
Hendrustus and Hippoi, Goddess of Horses; he is of the Hyaloring tribe. He
is described as  "the Handsome Equestrian". This indicates to me that 
Hyalor Horsebreaker had already done his bit (pun intended!).

  Later, the Sons of Vuranostum are summonded by Kargzant to fight against 
the Monster Gods who escaped from the Underworld (no other mention of these 
Monster Gods appear), they *might* be the Gods of the Digijelm (trolls), or 
some of the Rebel Gods (Orlanth & Friends). The second is my guess, as 
shown below:

   Kargzant charges into battle, but is tripped and bound, and a bit placed 
in his mouth and a bridle on his head

   "That way was Kargzant bound, and the horse of the world tamed, and the 
sons of Vuranostum and all the people of Kargzant were doomed to fall 
before the people of Orlanatus.

   "After this the movement of Kargzant in the sky realm was regular. The 
pattern prepared the world for the later, true light of day and dark of 
night. Thus, for the first time, there was a discernable difference between 
night and day."

  On Page 52, in the Great Counterattack, An Army invades Dara Happa, 
composed of the descendants and slaves of the Rebel Gods. Khordavu learns 
that these are followers of Orlanatus, and tells them that their gods had 
paid homage to Yelm in the Underworld, and "The gods of these peoples were 
those which had been in the battle in the sky when Kargzant was defeated."

   Kargzant no longer has un-restricted Movement, he is forced to travel 
the same path day after day. Sure the Sun moves, but no longer does it roam 
the Sky at will. To me that shows that the Movement abilities enjoyed by 
Kargzant are much curtailed. After all, Yelm moves, yet does not have the 
Movement Rune. Since Kargzant was stripped of his unrestricted movement 
before the Sun rose again and the Great Compromise, he lost it forever.  

   Why would the people of Kargzant be doomed to fall before the people of 
Orlanatus (Orlanth), unless that God was in some way responsible for the 
binding of Kargzant? And who is the most Powerful god to hold the Movement 
Rune? 

  I'd be willing to give the Movement rune to Kargzant, but much reduced 
from what it had been. No Teleports or Fly spells for instance. Rune spells 
which allow much faster travel, maybe something to ride short distances 
over thin air (like gullys or rivers, not kilometers). Jump for 
Horses? that would be a nightmare for those Redlands farmers! 


  On a related note, Kargzant is one of the Rebel Gods who is in on the 
Murder of Murharzam! (p. 16)

Roderick Robertson.

---------------------

From: appel@erzo.berkeley.edu (Shannon Appel)
Subject: RQ Magazine Indices
Message-ID: <199402070641.WAA12545@erzo.berkeley.edu>
Date: 6 Feb 94 14:41:46 GMT
X-RQ-ID: 3043

I've finished some magazine indices that I've been working on, and
made them available for FTP.  Indices on the following magazines may
now be FTPed from soda.berkeley.edu:

	Codex
	RQ Adventures
	Tales of the Reaching Moon
	Wyrm's Footnotes (issues 5-14 only)

They're all in the directory /pub/rpg-index

That directory also contains indices for Different Worlds and Heroes,
which will probably be of interest as well, if you don't already have
them.

If you don't have access to FTP, and would like copies of any or all
of the indices, drop me a line.

Shannon

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