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From: RuneQuest-Request@glorantha.holland.sun.com (RQ Digest Maintainer)
To: RuneQuest@glorantha.holland.sun.com (Daily automated RQ-Digest)
Reply-To: RuneQuest@glorantha.holland.sun.com (RuneQuest Daily)
Subject: RuneQuest Daily, Fri, 04 Mar 1994, part 1
Sender: Henk.Langeveld@holland.sun.com
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Resent-To: appel@soda.berkeley.edu
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Resent-From: Shannon Appel
X-RQ-ID: Intro
This is the RuneQuest Daily Bulletin, a mailing list on
the subjects of Avalon Hill's RPG and Greg Stafford's
world of Glorantha. It is sent out once per day in digest
format.
More details on the RuneQuest Daily and Digest can be found
after the last message in this digest.
---------------------
From: MOBTOTRM@vaxc.cc.monash.edu.au
Subject: Indiana MOB and the Last Crusade
Message-ID: <01H9JYSG3PRA8WZ013@vaxc.cc.monash.edu.au>
Date: 4 Mar 94 11:11:36 GMT
X-RQ-ID: 3230
G'day all,
Sandy Answers:
>>The first Crusade ended by grabbing the land.
>Only a trivial amount of land was grabbed -- all of it obviously
>sacred territory -- and the vast bulk of the crusaders returned home
>having gained no land whatsoever from the expedition.
Get out your Penguin Atlas of Medieval History and you'll see that the
land "grabbed" by the First Crusaders stretched from the Red Sea, along the
Mediterranean coast to Antioch and then deep inland to Edessa: hardly a
trivial amount. However, of this conquered territory, I would say that only
a *trivial* percentage could be considered "sacred territory (eg. Jerusalem
and surrounds, etc.)
Annexing these territories seriously pissed off the Seljuks
who lost it, and the Byzantines who thought they were getting it back.
Sandy then takes his bat and goes home:
>I won't defend the Fourth Crusade at all, which is not even
>worthy of the name. But I don't think it was so much a land-grabbing
>attempt, as a ploy by Venice to destroy a mercantile rival. And now I
>won't talk any more about the crusades, because the sources are
>available to everyone, and it's pointless to talk about it here on
>the internet, where it has largely become a "tis-tain't" argument.
>(Much like my defenses of Yelm re: Joerg.)
I think we have all had a chance to put our views, and you can make up
your own minds on the evidence.
_______________
Mike Dickison:
>And pertaining to the
>Indus/Harappan observation that started this all off, who else has
>noticed that the ogre in MOB's Melisande's Hand scenario in Sun County
>is called Mohenjo Daro?
Mohenjo Daro was the name of the bad guy in the TALES #4 version
of Melisande's Hand. In SUN COUNTY proper he got renamed
Jarst Daro, in a conscious effort to keep away from direct
parallells to Earth.
Cheers
MOB
---------------------
From: henkl@yelm (Henk Langeveld - Sun Nederland)
Subject: Administrativia: checking the mailing list(s)
Message-ID: <9403031651.AA24583@yelm.Holland.Sun.COM>
Date: 3 Mar 94 18:51:40 GMT
X-RQ-ID: 3231
|\ /\
|\ u n e \Q u e s t
|\ |\ |
|/ i g e s t | \| e w s
Hi all,
This is to tell you that the Digest is still alive.
I've got a huge amount of Gloranthan indexes from
Stephen Martin, which was posted by Eric Rowe.
This is (or will) also (be) available on soda.
So it's poll time: I've got over 200k of data.
My policy is to created batches of 20-25k to
allow it to get through to every possible site.
This would result in a Digest issue of about
8-10 parts - even more than Sandy's Tekumel
rules...
So I ask all of you: speak up if you do *NOT*
want to receive a Digest like this, and I'll
exclude you from the distribution.
If you *do* want to receive it, please remain
silent.
Now, I've got another submission from Rich Staats,
his entry in the story-telling contest at RQ-Con.
It's only 9k. Anyone *NOT* interested in that?
Cheers,
Henk
---------------------
From: cabanc@WKUVX1.WKU.EDU
Subject: RE: RuneQuest Daily, Wed, 02 Mar 1994, part 3
Message-ID: <0097AE25.9C5D0ACC.349@WKUVX1.WKU.EDU>
Date: 3 Mar 94 18:56:44 GMT
X-RQ-ID: 3232
>---------------------
>
>From: sandyp@idcube.idsoftware.com (Sandy Petersen)
>
>Durupt Jean asks re: the Unicorn riders
>>Are they the cult of Yelorna and their unicorns are intelligent?
>
>This is what I've assumed. They can't be a "standard" tribe, because
>to ride a unicorn you gotta be a virgin. Since they can't reproduce
>themselves, all tribal members must be adoptees, probably mostly
>refugees from other tribes. I imagine they also purchase or steal
>promising female children from other tribes.
Okay, how about this. Because of the pressures of survival,
many of the tribes of Prax expose excess newborns (because of seen
deformities, or bad omens or overpopulation) to the wilderness. Since
girl children are not seen as a bonus to a nomadic tribe the ratio of
girls to boy being exposed to girls is high. These foundlings are
then discovered by the Unicorn tribe to be raised by them.
Also as suggested, they are runaways, young women who didn't
fit into their tribe.
> Note that the cult of Yelorna possesses a useful spell which
>restores one to virgin status, if necessary.
>
---------------------
From: joe@sartar.toppoint.de (Joerg Baumgartner)
Subject: Children initiates
Message-ID:
Date: 3 Mar 94 20:26:58 GMT
X-RQ-ID: 3233
Lew Jardine in X-RQ-ID: 3222
> My views on the stages of initiation are that there is a significant
> advantage to the culture that harnesses the power (MPs) of its children for
> its religious ceremonies. Thus it is to the benefit of the clan if all the
> children who are at a ceremony also participate fully. This not only helps
> renew the priests spells but also helps to bind the children fully into the
> religious culture of the clan.
> There is of course the problem that children cannot be initiated too
> early or they will not be able to cooperate and participate in the ceremony.
> This I regard as vital since membership of a religion must be a voluntary
> act, although the cultural pressure to sign up would be over whelming to a
> child.
I wouldn't include children in crucial ceremonies, since they are somewhat
unreliable, and their not yet fully developed souls would be in danger even
in temple walk heroquests except in their roles as children.
> Thus, among the Orlanthi I would think that the first initiation
> would be at age seven and the child would join the entire pantheon. This
> would have a number of benefits:
> 1) The childs MPs now help the community, which in turn helps the child.
> 2) As they get older children of richer parents or priests might receive
> some simple instruction in magic including 1 or 2 childrens spells.
Of what kind? Wouldn't you consider it dangerous if children could play
themselves down to zero MP?
> 3) The child is magically bound to the clan and while I would hesitate to
> allow children to have conscious DI it would allow their God(s) to
> keep an eye on them, especially if asked by the priest of the clan.
This initiation would be as much the pantheon as to the deities
appropriate to this stage of youth. For Orlanthi youths this would be
Voria and Voriof.
> Thus if a child was lost or kidnapped they could be located via
> their bonds with the gods, whereas if they were not initiated they would
> be invisible the their god, except during holy ceremonies IMHO.
That's what Voriof is good for: finding lost sheep, and lost boys.
> So I would see the normal progress for an Orlanthi child to be
> *low initiation* (can't we find a better name, come on you catholics) at
> age seven. Then later they have the choice of either initiation into
> a specific religion (requiring another point of POW) or merely cultural
> initiation (ie. staying the same religiously, but being promoted to an
> adult which would allow them access to a wider range of magics and also
> conscious DI).
If we accept that boys are initiates of Voriof (and girls of Voria), then
cultural initiation would make them low initiates of Orlanth (Ernalda).
Or are all Orlanthi initiates of Orlanth and some other deity, as all Uzko
are initiates of Kyger Litor, and all sapient Aldryami (not Runners) of
Aldrya?
> Thus specific initiation would now cost 2 POW, however since the
> child has been attending worship ceremonies since the age of seven they
> should have regained the POW and be even at age 14. Thus PCs start out
> with their rolled POW at age 14 and progress normally using previous
> experience (if applicable), this assumes that they have also joined a
> specific deity, in addition to their cultural one.
> Thus Orlanthi children will all be members of the entire pantheon
> and of course spend quite a bit of time singing "All things bright and
> beautiful, All creatures great and small, All things wise and wonderful, Ernalda made them all!" Going on to talk about Voria making the spring flowers
> and Orlanth ruling, thundering and protecting, Barntar plowing and feeding
> at harvest time etc.
> On reaching adulthood many Orlanthi would also join a specific
> deity depending on their social station, but would also retain their links
> with the rest of the pantheon. Humakt is the obvious exception to this as
> joining Humakt severs ties with the other gods. Thus Orlanthi can DI for
> ressurrection via CA but Humakti CAN NOT even if they wanted to.
What about all the Sartarite Yelmalio worshippers? It seems that the
Alda-Churi worship Yelmalio and not Elmal, if I remember Harvar Ironfist's
Home of the Bold background and actions correctly.
> Other cultures might well approach this from a different perspective
> (which is well and good IMO) but generally I think that specific initiation
> should not replace initiation into a pantheon, but should complement it and
> give it a sense of direction. For an example, why should the future chief
> be cut off from Ernalda's bounty (Fertility for himself and his crops) just
> because he chooses (rightly) to specialize in Orlanth Rex. The Humakti, is
> on the other hand making a conscious decision to cut himself off from life
> (fertility) when he joins the ranks of his gods somber warriors.
The Pelorian farmer culture, the Dara Happan Yelmites, the mermen and the
minor theistic pantheons would be similar. We know that the Aldryami and
the Uz have the cultural initiation to their main deity for full members
of their society (Runners and trollkin/Uzdo only for exceptional
individuals, but the same applies for Praxian herd animals, Shadowcats
in Orlanthi society, or slaves in the Lunar Empire).
I don't think any Gloranthan culture (excepting the immortals, like Brithini,
who don't have children, or Vadeli, who do evil things to them) can afford
not to include their children in worship.
Most have extra status for immature members (Children of the Forest, Yelm
the Youth, Teelo Norri, Voriof/Voria) which gives practically no magic
except the tie for worship.
I'd think the Malkioni have some Nikolaus-like Saint who protects their
children, and that the Kralori know a dragon who does so.
What is the Praxian equivalent of Voriof/Voria? The Good Shepherd? The
Protectresses?
What for the other Gloranthan cultures?
--
-- Joerg Baumgartner joe@sartar.toppoint.de
---------------------
From: joe@sartar.toppoint.de (Joerg Baumgartner)
Subject: misc
Message-ID:
Date: 3 Mar 94 20:33:09 GMT
X-RQ-ID: 3234
Harald Smith in X-RQ-ID: 3223
[Krarsht complex in Jord Mountains]
> It seems quite possible that if chaos was there, trolls were
> there fighting it (particularly since the Jord mountains lay
> along the southward path taken by Gore and Gash. Perhaps the
> trolls left around the time of the Red Goddess' birth (or even
> before leaving only a few people behind) having eaten up
> everything they could. Or as was mentioned the dwarfs wanted the
> access to the minerals there.
This would only have been the case if the Jord Mountains had been one
of the first hiding places of the Hungry Maw. Chaos generally intruded
only after the trols had settled Dagori Inkarth, so that encounterng
it on their way south seems highly unlikely to me.
> One of the ongoing plans of the Imtherian dwarfs that I have
> developed is to continue raising the mountain range running from
> the Hungry Plateau down through Imther, all the way to Dragon
> Pass (as well as northward towards the Blue Moon Plateau). This
> is to be the first leg of the rebuilt Spike. So to continue
> their plans, the dwarfs chased out the trolls and set up there
> own cities and mines, driving out the Krarshtkids as well.
This theory has spice.
> ---------------------
>
Mike Dickison in X-RQ-ID: 3225
> Here's something that's been bugging me for years. Why do the Agimori
> (African analogue inhabitants of Pamaltela) and the Agimori (men-and-a-half,
> Praxian hunters) have the same name? Surely they can't be the same thing --
> men-and-a-half are children of Lodril with fire-resistance and other special
> powers, whereas Pamaltelans are I believe just normal Gloranthans with
> darker skin. Aren't they? Will this be in the next issue of Tales, or can a
> resident Rune Guru enlighten me?
Not my speciality, but since I'm the Darwinist on this list, my opinion and
a few facts:
The men-and-a-half are the nobility of the Agimori race which ventured to
Prax in the Golden Age or soon after its end to combat chaos. They came
the dry way across the Spike (only crossed the Raging Sea, maybe on
Kylerela). The Doraddi are their less noble (less firy, but more fertile)
relatives, as are most of the other black people of Pamaltela (and
Seshnela).
> And another nomenclatural problem. Who are the Hsunchen that live in
> Pralorela? The Genertela book says they're deer people (damali), but the
> name of the place (and the listing of Hsunchen tribes in the player's book)
> would suggest they are elk people (pralori). Not that it's critical, I'd
> just like to know.
Maybe the name stems from the ice age, when the climate was even colder
in the West than it is now, when the Pralori totem animal still lived
there. Now the climate is too warm for the elk, and with its disappearance
the Pralori Hsunchen either became civilized (like the Basmoli, Dangkae and
Galanini and other Hsunchen of the Tanier Valley) or wandered off to the
north, following the edge of the Glacier to Fronela.
> On the subject, I have to admire Greg et al for coming up with so many cool
> names amidst the more dodgy ones. (Has everyone heard how Nochet got
> named?) That's one of my hardest GM jobs, trivial as it sounds -- making
> up non-dorky names for ship captains, wandering barbarians, and villages.
> How do other GMs do it?
Either I pick a name of Greg's lists, or one from the culturally appropriate
earth parallels. For Hendriki, I take Anglo-saxon names, for Seshnegi
Rokari I'll play with French or Greek names (how Mularik fits in still
puzzles me).
Combining fragments of Gloranthan names, especially of the
local pantheon, with each other yields results similar to the multiple
Grazer Jardan-, Dastal-, Hend- -roste, -dari, -polti from the Grazer
chieftain list. Some people do so by randomizing (e.g. by shell script),
I usually try to make some sense.
> ---------------------
David Dunham in X-RQ-ID: 3226
> Don't believe all that Dara Happan propaganda. After all, it was written
> down, and thus can't change with reality.
Beautiful! This has the potential of becoming a classic, as quotes go!
> ---------------------
Sandy Petersen in X-RQ-ID: 3229
> Joerg says:
>>Chastity was proposed for the higher ranks. From a breeder's
>>point of view, this is counter-productive. If the Rokari wizard
>>caste wants to keep a high magical standard, apprenticeship should
>>be a prerequisitive for marriage and reproduction. This way, they
>>would select the strongest magicians' genes.
> The celibate Rokari wizards can have hordes of apprentices and teach
> them a "high magical standard" without breeding them personally. I
> can't believe the Rokari know anything about genetics.
The Rokari imitate the Brithini, don't they? The Brithini, when they
are forced to produce offspring, go to it like other cultures about
breeding cattle or horses. They optimize the breed by having the wizards
and Talars wisely choose the candidates for reproduction.
> They're as
> likely to believe that once a lineage has produced a magician its
> "magic power" is used up for a few generations as that magic arts are
> carried from father to son.
Highly unlikely, otherwise they would not adher to an immobile caste
system. With the same argument only one in a handful of generations of
knights or nobles will be fit to rule, or only every nth generation of
serfs will be able farmers.
> Only a trivial amount of land was grabbed -- all of it obviously
> sacred territory -- and the vast bulk of the crusaders returned home
> having gained no land whatsoever from the expedition.
The sacred port of Tripolis? The sacred orchards of Jaffa? The holy city
of Antioch? Allow me to sneer.
>>>>T'is!
>>>T'ain't!
>>T'is!
>T'ain't!
Sometimes I wonder whether I'm one of those Comanche contraries...
--
-- Joerg Baumgartner joe@sartar.toppoint.de
---------------------
From: jacobus@sonata.cc.purdue.edu (Bryan J. Maloney)
Subject: A quickie on the Loonie Empire
Message-ID: <9403032035.AA10667@sonata.cc.purdue.edu>
Date: 3 Mar 94 10:35:35 GMT
X-RQ-ID: 3235
Just musing:
I've pretty much decided that one of the strengths of the Loonies is
that they have figured out things like proper military discipline, a good
cataloguing system for their sages, double-entry book-keeping, etc.
Now, might it also be plausible that the Empire has hit upon less pleasant
"modern conveniences" like, for example, "cost-cutting measures"
"administrative restructuring", "temporary reduction in service", etc.?
The reason I ask is that I'll be starting a campaign soon and one of the
players wants to play a minor Lunar bureaucrat--nobody important, a
middle-management lifer. So that he'd have the time to run around with a
bunch of Tarshite and northern Sartar low-lifes, I've considered having him
being called into his superior's office, praised for his devotion and
service, and then given the bum's rush as an "unfortunate but necessary
cost-cutting measure". However, he would be told that he could apply for
a position "as soon as the administrative restructuring has been sufficiently
actualized in a real-world time-frame vis-a-vis departmental functions".
---------------------
From: eosgg@raesp-farn.mod.uk (Geoff Gunner)
Subject: unsubscribe
Message-ID: <9403032132.AA06739@raesp-farn.mod.uk>
Date: 3 Mar 94 21:32:42 GMT
X-RQ-ID: 3236
---------------------
From: mcarthur@fit.qut.edu.au (Mr Robert McArthur)
Subject: Dragonnewt skin armour
Message-ID: <199403032204.IAA16541@sleet.fit.qut.edu.au>
Date: 4 Mar 94 13:04:40 GMT
X-RQ-ID: 3237
JARDINE@RMCS.CRANFIELD.AC.UK writes
>
> DRAGON NEWT SKIN
>
> The tattoos should stay with a dragonnewt until they progress.
> Remember that if you skin a dragon newt when they are reborn they will
> be without the skin you took! How this works is beyond me, just another
> example of dragon newt wierdness, but it explains why they will track any
> skin takers to the ends of Glorantha.
Hmm, so what do dragonnewts that have been skinned wear? I like the idea of
a dragonnewt carefully wandering around in pyjamas to hold itself together
until it found the foul demon who managed to peel it... or does it borrow
a skin from someone else ?? Maybe, like temples magic, they have a set
belonging to the nest which can be loaned to a worthy/crazed peeled newt...
nuf said
Robert