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From: (Alex Ferguson)
Subject: Tales 11 stuff.
Message-ID: <>
Date: 10 Apr 94 22:10:34 GMT
X-RQ-ID: 3590

John Hughes:
> Note that the SPATIAL ORDERING of the clans in the diagram is 
> actually used in daily life

Ah!  I knew there was some reason the table was laid out in such a confusing

> Alex's posting also noted the confusion over the labels 'Husband 
> Giver' and 'Husband Taker'. Basically, the terms serve only to divide a 
> clan or tribe into 'Us' & 'Them'

I getcha.  My confusion evidently arises from interpretting the Giver
and Taker terms over-literally.  Is it always the case that these
relationships are _symmetric_, though?  That is, if skin A is a Husband
Giver to my clan, skin B, that always means that men from skin A may marry
into skin B, and men from A may marry into B?  (This clearly has to be the
case for the four-skin tribe, or if this Them and Us distinction is
consistent throughout the tribe.)

Is it also the case in these tribes with larger numbers of skins that the
HG/HT distinction divides the tribe in two in the same way from everyone's
perspective?  Or can it be the case that each skin divides the tribe up
into 'Us' and 'Them' in distinct ways?

If neither of these looser relationships occurs, the 8-skin tribe must be
something like this:

	1 <-> 2		5 <-> 6


	3 <-> 4		7 <-> 8

 -> :: Manages
 => :: may marry into

But for a larf, here's a couple of other (conceivable) patterns:

	[1 <-> 2]    =>	[5 <-> 6]
	    ^		    "
	    "		    v
	[3 <-> 4]   <=	[7 <-> 8]

(A circular pattern of intermarriage between ritually-linked pairs.)

	[1 -> 2]		[5 -> 6]
	 ^    |			 ^     |
	 |    v		<=>	 |     v
	[3 <- 4]		[7 <- 8]

(Two circles of `management', within intermarrying half of the tribe.)

 -> :: Manages
 => :: may marry into

> (or the Evergreens and the Thorns, 
> White Rose and Red Rose, City and United, Crips and Bloods or 
> whatever).

Montague and Capulet, Rangers and Celtic, Object Oriented and Functional
Programmers... ;-)

> Therefore Alex, no skin can ever be both Husband Taker and Husband Giver
> to you at the same time.

Why 'at the same time'?  Do these relationships change over a prolonged
period?  (Or periodically?)

But anyway, if we ignore my misinterpretation of the Husband Giver/Taker
terms, and substitute different ones, perhaps such relationships may be
possible, though perhaps not among the Left-Handed Doraddi.

> If you're interested in adding some real spice to Doraddi names in your 
> game, here are the most common types of click and their written 
> conventions. WARNING: overuse of these click consonants is not only 
> liable to leave you tongue-tied, but also to reduce your players to tears 
> of helpless laughter.

Once your players have been drived mad by this for a while by this, one
could then introduce a dialect to further annoy them which has glotal
clicks (too).  (Made at the back of the throat.)  I believe some East
African languages include both palatel and glotal clicks, but don't
quote me on this.

> This is a query. I'm doing a further module on meeting the Kresh, and 
> just cannot get my mind around the idea of these gigantic ponderous 
> multi-tonne wagons, up to 40 metres long, being pulled BY HAND 
> across the type of country that passes for 'flatland' (ha!) in a savanna 
> environment.

Personally I was disappointed when I found out a Kresh 'city' was a wagon
caravan, and not one _huge_ wagon.  Who me, megalomaniac?  }B-)

I don't think the Six-Legged Empire was strong in this area, but after
one of _those_ wagons has been over a track, I think you have a de facto
road, even if it was somewhat bumpy before.

> Why are they doing it, especially since there are much more practical 
> ways to propel even large wagons (domesticated dinosaurs or 
> megafauna).

It maybe that they have similar view to the Praxian Agimori about using
'beasts of burden'.  It seems reasonable to believe that most of the
propulsion is magical, the people pulling it really being there to lead it
in the right direction.

> The PC Touch Earth Rip Wind was an apprentice Batasii (shaman) of 
> the Right hand before being caught up by Jmijie's Wanderlust. She 
> constantly dreams of a great lake far to the north, violent and salty, so 
> vast you cannot see the far side. She does not believe it of course, but is 
> driven to find out if it really exists.

I'm skeptical that the Arbrennan don't know about the Ocean (although
I like the scenario idea).  Certainly the information for the Pamalt
pantheon in GoG suggests mythic knowledge of the `outside world'.

> Beware: MOB of broo is recursive, and possibly a Nysalor Riddle. The
> descriptive 'Mob' is also an acronym for the entire phrase - Mob Of Broo 
> (MOB). Something very sinister here...

cf. "Elvish Liberation Front." ;-)

Rumours that recursion is Chaotic are of course merely Lunar propaganda.
Persons promulgatinn this Non-Well-Founded heresy will be systematically
purged by the legendary Lambda Calculators of the one true Church of the
Least Fixed Point.

Stop me before I Post Again,
\lambda x.Alex


X-RQ-ID: Extro

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