From: RuneQuest-Request@Glorantha.Holland.Sun.COM (RQ Digest Maintainer) To: RuneQuest@Glorantha.Holland.Sun.COM (Daily automated RQ-Digest) Reply-To: RuneQuest@Glorantha.Holland.Sun.COM (RuneQuest Daily) Subject: RuneQuest Daily, Thu, 14 Apr 1994, part 1 Sender: Henk.Langeveld@Holland.Sun.COM Content-Return: Prohibited Precedence: junk X-RQ-ID: Intro This is the RuneQuest Daily Bulletin, a mailing list on the subjects of Avalon Hill's RPG and Greg Stafford's world of Glorantha. It is sent out once per day in digest format. More details on the RuneQuest Daily and Digest can be found after the last message in this digest. --------------------- From: MOBTOTRM@vaxc.cc.monash.edu.au Subject: Hut of Darkness, or Rune Metal Jacket Message-ID: <01HB57V6H6SY935FER@vaxc.cc.monash.edu.au> Date: 14 Apr 94 09:45:29 GMT X-RQ-ID: 3620 Pam carlsonp@wdni.com asks: >A few weeks ago someone mentioned that they had run a "Heart of Darkness" >type scenario, with young Lunar officers travelling down the Zola Fel. I >have some players who are just right for this concept. Could whoever posted >that one drop me a line? I have a few questions, if you don't mind a >little acknowledged plagerism. >Thanks in Advance, I think this might have been based on the scenario "HUT of Darkness" in Tales of the Reaching Moon #10. This scenario, which bears more than a passing resemblance to a certain film by Francis Ford Coppola, features a boat (The Esrolian Queen) going on a journey up the Green River to a village, which has been taken over by the crazed new headman Ajan Torang. The player characters have to bump him off, presumably with extreme prejudice. It would work well with Lunars up the Zola Fel - I guess going north into the mountains? Pam, if you haven't yet got Tales - you should! I can give you the appropriate contact address for your part of the cosmos. MOB --------------------- From: MOBTOTRM@vaxc.cc.monash.edu.au Subject: The [Lunar] Empire State Building [Wall] Message-ID: <01HB58B15Z3C935FER@vaxc.cc.monash.edu.au> Date: 14 Apr 94 09:58:16 GMT X-RQ-ID: 3621 _____________________ David Dunham writes: >Has anyone run across references to actual people (not gods) riding >chariots? Yeah, see SUN COUNTY. The Prax Sun Domers used chariots, until their herds died out during the Solitude of Testing. They once had a squadron/ legion/armada (what do you call a whole lot of chariots?) called The Golden Axles, which was annihilated in the Dragonkill War. Now only the Count has a chariot (golden, naturally) which is only used on ceremonial occasions. I don't have the English edition with me at the moment, so I can't give the page reference. However, the story of the Golden Axles is told in the "Old Sun Dome" section near the back. [We also made a pretty cool chariot out of a shopping cart for our Roman Triumph at school a few weeks back!] David also writes: >Michael O'Brien (who should talk, naming people after Earthly geography) said >>However, we don't (or shouldn't) just assume Lunar = Roman, Kralorelan >>= Chinese etc., nor are such bald assumptions ever spelled out in RQ >>publications. >>I just don't think specific terrestrial >>locations should be mentioned in RQ publications. >True. Guilty as charged m'lud! (Though Mohenjo got changed to Jarst in the editing stages). Having been violently opposed by almost everyone on this topic, I'm going to put my head back down under the parapet! --------------------- From: brandon@caldonia.nlm.nih.gov (Brandon Brylawski) Subject: Re: RuneQuest Daily, Wed, 13 Apr 1994, part 2 Message-ID: <9404131418.AA13221@caldonia.nlm.nih.gov> Date: 13 Apr 94 14:18:57 GMT X-RQ-ID: 3622 Joerg writes: >I still don't know what deity his parents worship. We said they were >in the textile business, probably weaving the large amounts of excess >wool the Hendriki produce for export. But a male Orlanthi, even if he >is a town dweller, couldn't really be expected to worship a handmaiden >of Ernalda (one of these would be the weaver) as primary deity. > >So would his father and brother be Orlanth initiates (or Aeolian Malkioni), >and as well initiates of this handmaiden, or what? I would suggest one of the peaceful subcults of Orlanth, e.g., Orlanth the Craftsman, also known as Orlanth Maker by some. Orlanth worship in many towns and cities takes on a variety of different aspects to conform to the work patterns and needs of the townsmen. A lot of professions get subsumed under Orlanth in various areas in this way : for example, the farming god is variously worshipped as Orlanth the Plowman, Orlanth Barntar, or Barntar the Plowman. Brandon --------------------- From: s.manning@ic.ac.uk Subject: Lunars vs. Malkioni ? Message-ID: <9404131435.AA00693@pico.ma.ic.ac.uk> Date: 13 Apr 94 16:35:49 GMT X-RQ-ID: 3623 Alex Finally writes in X-RQ-ID: 3588 >I think we should be more precise here: the Kingdom of Loskalm is >certainly likely to be hostile to the Lunars, or at least will be once >they come into intimate physical contact. (Charg is still 'in the way'.) >On the other hand, the Brithini and Seshnegi may well be pretty apathetic >to/underinformed about the Lunar empire, and the Boristi and Galvosti >might just lurve them to pieces. Personally, I have to disagree. In the past the great Gloranthan conquest was for the Middle Air, between the Orlanthi and the Lunars. Given that the Red Goddess claims a pretty unique relationship with the Creator, I am sure that the Lunars are seen as the biggest group of heretics known to the Malkioni, even more so than your neighbours!. Without wishing to push the analogy too far, if the Malkioni heresies are analogous to the Catholic/Orthodox/Protestant/... split, then the Malkioni/Lunar split I see as akin to medieval Christianity/Islam. While I am on the issue of the RG and the Creator, and having just received my copy of GRoY, does she claim to have knowledge of Vezkarvez? If so, how do the Solar cultists of the Empire view her claims to such knowledge? BTW, was Greg influenced by gnostic scripture in writing the "Timeless" section of GRoY? I ask this, because, apparently, quite a few gnostics beleived that from the "First Principle", the Unkowable, roughly speaking, there emanated the "Second Principle" or the "Barbelo", from whom there followed the "Ten Aeons" and then, at least in Christian Gnosis, "Christ". Answers, comments? Simon. --------------------- From: Guy_Robinson.sbd-e@rx.xerox.com Subject: Evil Wizards, Valient Priests and Fantasy Names Message-ID: <_13-Apr-94_16:13:52_+1_.*.Guy_Robinson.sbd-e@rx.Xerox.com> Date: 13 Apr 94 15:13:52 GMT X-RQ-ID: 3624 I have jiggled my environments about and I now can quote from messages. All examples of Receptionist magic :-) assumes the Orlanthi culture. Sandy writes: > I think this argument is erroneous. And here is why. > Firstly, Guy, you apparently think that all Gloranthans live >a life in fear and trepidation, needing handy attack magic available >at all times. I think this is true only for adventurers and for >citizens who dwell in lands that support adventurers. I don't think >most priestesses of Ernalda ever enter hand-to-hand combat in their >life. Neither do most western Wizards. According to the Western Wizard's propoganda :-) I am pitching my comments in a biased manner, claiming that the lifestyle of the Western Wizard is dangerous because of the "corrupt" nature of that society, because this is how I would run these Western Lands. Your comments are very constructive as they give another perspective. The level of danger, is indeed exaggerated, but then Glorantha should be able to survive a GM's descision to increase the level of fear and loathing within its societies for his games. > Secondly, you must look at the magical ecology. If life is >dangerous in the way you've described, to the point that priests and >wizards must retain a goodly means of protection, then many priests >are going to be worshipers of stuff like Humakt, Storm Bull, Golden >Bow, etc. The peaceable cults of Barntar and Dendara will be >less-around, because less-survivable. So the truly useful Rune spells >like Bless Crops are going to be rare, because their priests are >rare. Due to the social and non-magical ecologicial forces at work I am not convinced that in a more violent world the war Cults would soak up most of the initiates. A society can only support so many warriors. Reducing the number of Bless Crops available could mean a disaster and famine, paving the way for a terrible famine after a military victory. >But wizard's aren't restricted in this manner. One wizard can >cast a protective spell as well as another, or a blessing. Hence, >wizards are more flexible than priests. If the war's over, but >everyone's already joined Zorak Zoran, you're stuck. None of your >Rune levels are going to be able to quit and join Flamal now that >crops and healing are the order of the day. But all a wizard has to >do is learn a new spell to switch emphasis. I think the there are softer options than trying to convert from Zorak Zoran to Flamal, although this is a very impressive extreme I must admit. I would suggest that people would more tend to subscribe to Orlanth in times of war with a mind to convert to member of his pantheon when the conflict is over. After all if you join Humakt, for example, you embrace Death and this is something I feel a character would not do just because of the threat of War. Cult examinations should stop insincere initatiations. Joining Orlanth on the other hand would be a sign of loyalty to the Orlanthi life-style, and conversion to other associated cults could almost be a common feature of peace-time celebrations. > Thirdly, you speak of the priest's POW as if it were an >infinite resource. There's only so much POW a priest is going to >sacrifice in his entire life. If he's spending some of it on >Absorption or Earthpower, then that POW is NOT available for Bless >Crops. Every point spent on self-indulgent protection is one less >Bless Crops that you don't get access to in need. But the sorcerer >can cast his own blessing spells at any time at any place. He is not >as limited. The priests POW is not an infinite resource but neither is any human resource, like the effort people put into a field to ensure a good harvest. I propose the idea that each Bless Crops represents a recognised service to the community that the community, tribes and families honour. Points of POW invested in self-protection do not yield this kind of tribute from society so they are discouraged, again by social means. > Fourth and lastly, I think most folks greatly underrate the >utility of specialization, which I believe to be a major factor in >Gloranthan magic ecology. I think that in a cooperative wizard-using >society like the Hrestoli and Rokari, there is a strong tendency for >some wizards to be healers, some wizards to be crop specialists, some >wizards to be combat-oriented, etc. If this is the case, your local >farm wizard isn't going to be reluctant to enhance the growth of your >prize pig because it will hurt his MPs for later usage. Some other >wizard, with combat spells, will protect him against the Bad Wizards. The same applies to the Cults. I think the mix and relative importance of any cults would, over time, reflect the required degrees of specialization needed. More worship would go to the Gods whose services where needed and the power of that Cult would grow. This assumes that Cult are also bound together by common religious bonds to varying degrees. If you feel that Cults are more discrete I can understand your concern. Orlanth and Issaries I would typify are close, between which initiates might transfer relatively easily, albeit on not too frequent a basis. Individuals would be affected by social pressure. Even though the Orlanthi are Hill Barbarians it does not means that their culture is unsubtle. In fact I could argue that society bound together by social interactions can be far more flexible than one which allots people their role through a distant, or inflexible, authority. Joerg writes: >What is interesting: The Malkioni claim that Yelm, Orlanth and >Humakt are scams set up by powerful sorcerers (bad guys, not >wizards) who became trapped in their own preconceptions: Ehilm, >Worlath, and Humct. They even added another, imaginary, one, >Jogrampur, or so. >(BTW: Their choice of these three seems to indicate they thought >them to be the most powerful of theistic cults. Another point against >later development of the Cult of Humakt. If one accepts the theistic >"truth".) Now in the voice I have been arguing in previously this is clearly a Malkioni smoke screen based on the genesis of their own God. After all where is Jogrampur now? (This is a rhetorical question :-) In response to my mischevious reclassification of Divine Magic and Sorcery Joerg writes: >So it's "receptionist" for divine magic? Touche. :-) >And the God Learners demonstrated that it is possibe to build >"visible deities", to the extent that the Umathelan False God >Revolt had real priests of the previously unknown/non-existant >god Jogrampur. As a RuneQuest referee I know that as Cult can grow in power from an the inauspicious start of an alledged encounter with a powerfull spirit by a soltairy shaman (RQ2, Black Fang Brotherhood) therefore it also follows that a cult can also be fabricated. The point that the God Learners choose cults shows that this approach must have advantages over sorcery. In discussing Sorcery Joerg also provides some meat to put on the bones of my Invisible God is Scam suggestion: >There are those little gimmicks called crystals or MP matrices, >or in Gloranthan terms maybe "life vessels", which contain all the >MP a wizard or sorcerer could spare at any time. These are the ones >used for communal obligations first. >I have the strong suspicion that the churches of the Invisible god >use the scattered magic emanation (not the main stream of energy) >in their worship services to fuel or load their life vessels. Guy seems >to suspect the same, by calling it a scam. This the very thing I am trying to draw attention to. If the Cult strengthens the God it is focused on then I suspect that the Malikoni religion strengthens only the magical activities of the Sorcerer. This focusing of the magical power of a society into so felixible an individual is a bit unsettling. As Pam Carlson writes: >It strikes me that people mainly fear sorcerers because they represent >frightening power with no discernable alliegence or control. Exactly. The Cults specialise but their specialization is enforced by spirits of reprisal and other methods like excommunication. Priests are commonly invested only after a rigourous, magic-assisted grooming process while in some Western cultures you can be born a Wizard. A specialised society of Wizards could be as defensive as the Maginot (sp?) line was for the French when the Germans came from another direction. After some retraining a rebel core of Wizards could attempt to destabilise a Sorcerous society, murdering the Combat specialists in an unexpected manner and replacing them as the main wielders of sorcerous combat spells. David Dunham writes: >Guy Robinson said >>It is a real shame that Glorantha is ridden with far too many >>fantasy names that are a curse to most fantasy writings. >You'd prefer that Allan the Liberator and his friend Harry the Berserk >defeat Jessica the Razor and liberate Seattle from the Roman Empire so >that Oliver can be worshipped again? As long as there is a Cragspider for every Xoila Umbar I have no great problems. When every fourth name in five is a fantasy name then I start to have problems. They are simply less memorable. Real world names tend to be recognisable, as they work on linguist principles. In English there are actually some regular rules for determining whether a name is male or female for example. In a similiar manner I can recognise the differences between Latin and Scandinavian names without being a linguist. Unless the inventor of the name is proficient with linguistic principles there is no way by which I can recognise whether a specific name is from the West of Genertalia or from Dragon Pass in Central Genertalia.