From: RuneQuest-Request@Glorantha.Holland.Sun.COM (RQ Digest Maintainer)
To: RuneQuest@Glorantha.Holland.Sun.COM (Daily automated RQ-Digest)
Reply-To: RuneQuest@Glorantha.Holland.Sun.COM (RuneQuest Daily)
Subject: RuneQuest Daily, Wed, 20 Apr 1994, part 2
Sender: Henk.Langeveld@Holland.Sun.COM
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From: jonas.schiott@vinga.hum.gu.se (Jonas Schiott)
Subject: Mostly tricksters...
Message-ID: <9404181806.AA11631@vinga.hum.gu.se>
Date: 18 Apr 94 22:06:14 GMT
X-RQ-ID: 3700
Chris Cooke wonders:
>In GoG it states Trickster initiates are also Acolytes and as such recieve
>reusable divine magic BUT it doesn't list which. Is it just common divine?
>only Trickster divine spells? do they have to get other divine spells by
>initiating into other Cults(possibly associated only)? but have those
>reusable? (wouldn't that surpise other cult members?) Any clarification of
>the Trickster would be a big help. Also, what would his skills limitations
>be? dex x 3 (x5?) ?
I'd say they only get Trickster magic, i.e. _no_ common divine at all. What
priest in his right mind would let a trickster join his cult? But no, if a
trickster was a multiple initiate he would only get the Trickster spells as
reusable ones. Skill limitations? For people who live solely on their wits
and reflexes? Are you serious?
>Also, it says Tricksters are not subject to (or protected by) the law. How
>would the general populace of Prax and Sartar view a "discovered" Trickster?
>Hunted? Ignored? Bounty Hunt?
There are many depictions of tricksters fitting into daily Sartarite life
without too many complications (in many orlanthi lands, a trickster is
required to complete a Lightbringer's Circle). The bit about their outlaw
status often seems to be a mere formality (if actions against you can't be
punished, this makes your own 'immunity' pretty pointless). Travelling
outside orlanthi lands (like to Prax), removes _anyone_ from the
jurisdiction of orlanthi law.
>Is it true that in order for your skills % to exceed 100% you must be a Rune
>Lord or similar?
In RQ2 it was. But back then, the benefits of going over 100% were much
greater. Personally, I'm an RQ2 nostalgic. What did they have to go and
change things for? :-)?
Joerg Baumgartner:
>For Theyalans, Eurmal is the logical successor of Ratslaff, so his Runes
>would be a double disorder, and maybe a single Illusion. The logical choice
>for the double Illusion rune (accompanied by harmony) would be Donandar,
>whose puppeteer followers tellingly are quoted in RQ2 as wielders of this
>Rune.
Now this is interesting. Of course, some elements of mythology have been
changed since RQ2; I don't think there was any clear distinction between
tricksters/jesters and entertainers back then. Witness the puppeteer troupe
in that boardgame, for instance.
I'd say that Eurmal definitely has both Disorder and Illusion. Maybe the
reason for stressing Illusion in Genertela is connected to the fact that
Eurmal tricksters seem to fit into society better than Bolongo ones.
And on the subject of Disorder: on rereading the RQ2 descriptions of the
Runes, I realized that this is where my relativism comes from. I mean all
that stuff about different cults claiming their own Rune as the First
(later depictions are much less 'chaotic'). I'd say Disorder has one of the
strongest arguments - it was obviously the first stage in the development
from Chaos. Which strengthens my point about Trickster's preeminence.
>I'd phrase it like this: "Hmm, Eurmal tricked them to believe his name was
>."
I'll go along with that.
>If Illusion was his main Rune, Eurmal would have a great illusionary
>cult hierarchy with lots of pompous offices.
He does - it's called the Lunar Empire. :-), I think.
Curtis Shenton:
> I'm curious to know hom many people use Illumination in their
>games. How many campaigns have had PC illuminates? And has anyone
>developed any Illuminate philosophies?
Not PCs, but several NPCs. In fact, in one scenario that I have in
electronic form (it was originally written for a convention), the main NPC
is a Riddler who explains his philosophy at some length. I'm too lazy to
rewrite it all from memory here and now, but if I juggle some floppies back
and forth and do some cutting/pasting, I can probably post it in a couple
of days. Why not just send it to Curtis? Well, everybody seems to be
agreeing with me about tricksters, and I'm determined to start _some_ sort
of controversy. (Is the ":-)" really necessary for this one?)
Jonas
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From: jacobus@sonata.cc.purdue.edu (Bryan J. Maloney)
Subject: Sandy's Pamaltela material.
Message-ID: <9404181851.AA09791@sonata.cc.purdue.edu>
Date: 18 Apr 94 08:51:53 GMT
X-RQ-ID: 3701
Has the voluminous material that was worked out over the years in that
wonderful Baltimore campaign ever actually been PUBLISHED anywhere, or are
we stuck in the too-damned-familiar boat of being screwed no matter what we
do because we do not have access to reams of unpublished and unavailable
material, so we must scurry along like pathetic mice, too frightened to
actually write anything for fear that we will be castigated for coming
into conflict with "holy knowledge" that has been kept secret from us poor,
benighted newcomers?
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From: SMITHH@A1.MGH.HARVARD.EDU (Harald Smith 617 726-2172)
Subject: Strangers, Games, and Secrets
Message-ID: <01HBBSXCK1TYQ7Y35I@MR.MGH.HARVARD.EDU>
Date: 18 Apr 94 10:31:00 GMT
X-RQ-ID: 3703
Strangers in Prax--
Just got my copy Friday--after initial review, I must say I like
it alot. The NPC's seem well detailed and appropriate for their
stations. The conception of Barran was particularly nice,
returning Magasta's children to their father. The Coders make a
great counterpoint to the Lunar heirarchy--good chance for taking
advantage of or getting caught between the Lunar conflicts (I
make use of similar conflicts within the Imperial bureaucracy
within my own campaign). The only detail on the Coders I would
complain about (and a very minor one) is the dating for the One
Priest Too Many piece. Having it occur in Seaseason 1621, the
same season as the Cradle, presents some slight problems. The
Cradle is staged during the 2nd week, after which Garrath is gone
to sea--thus One Priest Too Many would have to occur during the
1st week (a bit rushed IMO). If I ever run it, I would shift the
timing back to Stormseason 1620 (the Lunars think they've won a
great victory with plans to celebrate the fall of Whitewall only
to find the Cradle drifting down to destroy their plans).
I also noted that Arlaten's accent bore a striking resemblance to
a certain minstrel character encountered at RQ-Con (do you like
that nordic accent Mike? :-) ).
Games--
I liked the games John Hughes outlined--seems like some good
material to utilize within a campaign. The farting choir seems
appropriate for the Uz--perhaps at Skyfall Lake?
Secrets--
Yes, my campaign incorporates several secrets, but since several
of my players read this I can't elaborate, though (I hear a
collective "Darn"!). Roughly, there is at least one mythological
quest secret, at least one big dwarf secret, and two villanous
secrets all working behind the scenes. And that doesn't included
the secret goals of the assorted factions working in Imther.
--Harald Smith
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From: alex@dcs.gla.ac.uk (alex)
Subject: Fun with Sun Gods.
Message-ID: <9404182113.AA06785@hawaii.dcs.gla.ac.uk>
Date: 18 Apr 94 21:13:55 GMT
X-RQ-ID: 3704
Klaus O K:
> Are the Yelmalions modelled on the Egyptians?
Not so much the Yelmalions, per se, but I think some elements of Dara
Happan religion and culture are similar to ancient Egypt. In particular,
the Yelmic life/death/rebirth beliefs are much closer to the Osiris cult
than anything in Hindu beliefs (which DH also resembles to some (I would
say a greater) extent).
Josh Wright:
> I figure that Yelmalians would be divided into two groups, those who
> are rich or lucky enough to be cavalry (preferable archers, but also
> mounted spears) and the average hopolite style templar.
I think this depends which bunch of Yelmalions we're speaking of.
Sartarite worshippers of Elmal and Yelmalio will be mostly cavalry,
and perhaps form the bulk of such troops in large Sartarite forces.
Largely they would be armed with spears. This pattern is likely to be
changing in the Aldachur area expecially, under the influence of Lunar
and Yelmic use of pike formations.
In Sun County, with no ready availability of horses, and the apparently
greater Yelmic influence, I think the bow would be much more popular,
along with the use of longer spears, and pikes.
Increasingly I'm convinced that Sun County was influenced by Dara Happan
Yelmic beliefs long before the Monrogh thing occurred in Sartar. Perhaps
bearing in mind the non-aristocratic nature of the cult, the original Elmal (?)
temple was influenced by Antirius missionaries at some time during the
Peaceful Era. (Who was it that suggested a 'Yelmal' cult at some point?)
Granted Yelmalio is not quite Antirius, but Elmal + Antirius = something
vaguely like Yelmalio.
Alex.
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From: 100102.3001@CompuServe.COM (Peter J. Whitelaw)
Subject: Subject: Strangers in Prax
Message-ID: <940418212526_100102.3001_BHJ86-1@CompuServe.COM>
Date: 18 Apr 94 21:25:26 GMT
X-RQ-ID: 3705
Firstly, as a recent subscriber to this service it is certainly heartlifting to
know that there is such a vibrant Forum of discussion in existence devoted to
RQ. I have had to ensure that I have a copy of RQ books to hand when I read
through the daily though (please tell me I am not the only one!).
Secondly, I noticed several folks talking (sorry, I don't know how to copy &
paste text from Word into WinCIM) about Strangers in Prax. Hey ! How do I get
a copy in the UK. I rung Avalon Hill and they told me that it wouldn't be
available for a month or so yet.
All the best,
Peter
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From: alex@dcs.gla.ac.uk (alex)
Subject: The Gloranthan 24-hour Sports channel.
Message-ID: <9404182136.AA07022@hawaii.dcs.gla.ac.uk>
Date: 18 Apr 94 21:36:33 GMT
X-RQ-ID: 3706
Andrew Raphael:
>Loren J. Miller
>> Any suggestions for assigning a baseball/cricket clone?
> Baseball & cricket have been around for centuries. Ignoring the
> Cooperstown myth, baseball descends from British stick & ball games.
> There's an article on this in a Steven J Gould book. Cricket would
> imply an agricultural society with a wealthy class able to take 5 days
> to play a game.
That all depends of the exact form played, but I agree that civilised
sun worshippers seem the best candidates among humans. After all, it
is a `summer' game, and the five-day structure _sounds_ like a Yelmic
construction, doesn't it? The `Nelson' superstition (about the number
111, and multiples thereof) is a dead giveaway also. ;-)
> >Maybe we could introduce baseball as an aldryami game?
> I find it hard to imagine Aldryami playing anything, but if they do,
> archery would be the thing. Gymnastics, maybe?
Naturally Aldryami don't play _competitive_ sports, as such... I'd imagine
they indulged in co-operative or ritual activities, which look like (rather
incomprehsible) sports when witnessed by outsiders.
To steal an idea from an old White Dwarf, back when it was a proper
magazine, perhaps a cricket-like games originated as an Aldryami ritual.
High King Elf defending a Harmony rune against some foe or other. Other
cultures may have made it more overtly competitive later, however.
Guy Robinson:
> Trade Posts is a game traditionally played by members of the
> Issaries cult when two cult sponsored caravans meet. It is
> quite a spectacle, partially because of the fact that the
> rules are so hard to understand ...
> Essentially the game is about defending a symbollic Harmony
> Rune adorned with bails which are said to represent the
> influence of the Trade Rune but this is a very mute point.
This is similar to what I'd in mind, though I'd quibble with Issaries
as a likely patron: after all, Incomprehsibility and Harmony aren't
characteristic of the god of Communication and Motion.
Joerg:
> Loren J. Miller in X-RQ-ID: 3450
> > Hold it right there. Before you go any further we have to reserve polo
> > for the Persia analogue in Glorantha. That would be Carmania.
> I disagree, for one simple reason: The Carmanians are too recent (795 ST)
> to have invented the game. Of course they demand they did, but the game is
> much older.
This is getting a bit excessively earth-analogue ridden for my taste:
for starters, why is Carmania terribly close to Persia, of any period?
Even if it is, why should they play anything very like polo?
The best candidates would be cultures influenced by similar games, like
kabash, played by the norse nomads.
> >> Trollball is a game we all love, although putting it under ball games
> >> is stretching the definition of ball a bit. However, this is the
> >> equivalent for American Football, or Rugby.
> > I think American Football has too many rules to be anything at all
> > like Trollball. I don't know if Rugby has fewer rules. Somebody else?
> To ignorant Europeans, who know football to be a game where hands aren't
> involved, aka soccer, American Football seems to be the game where all
> the rules are broken.
Historically, this is (sorta) true: Rugby evolved from football (`soccer')
but removing the 'no handling' rule; American Football arose from rugby
by dropping the 'no forward pass' rule (and also 'no blocking'). Obviously,
both games added lots of rules of their own in the process (and subsequently).
Trollball is not unlike American Football without all these 'extra' rules.
> > Then why play tennis? Wouldn't they play volleyball instead? I think a
> > game that encourages leaping high into the air and "spiking" your foes
> > would be quite popular among Yelm worshippers.
Not exactly `stately', is it? Perhaps in Teshnos they play the `beach'
variation, though. ;-)
> Because I cannot imagine Dara Happan lords to soil their hands with
> things that touch the earth. And tennis has the nice feature of the
> "service" to have the ball brought into play by a servant. To me very
> Dara Happan.
I can easily see DHans playing some strange variation on those lines...
maybe something like Real Tennis?
> What you Americans understand by
> hockey is the game played by ruffians skating over ice, wielding clubs
> and sometimes hitting the flat piece of plastic when no opponents or
> referees are around. The snow troll version of troll ball, played with
> Hollri as pucks.
Joerg, you can break this news to the Hollri. ;-) Maybe they use penguins.
> >> The Orlanthi would play a thrown ball game, like handball, or a rough
> >> version of basketball. There is the legend that the Storm Gods once
> >> played ball with the Blue Moon...
> I think that Orlanthi play golf.
Note there's a reference to the Orlanthi playing "kick the ball" in the
Genertela player's book. I think many cultures would play a similar game,
though, at least on a very informal basis.
Alex.
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From: argrath@aol.com
Subject: Fair cops and snotty brats
Message-ID: <9404181953.tn15200@aol.com>
Date: 18 Apr 94 23:53:26 GMT
X-RQ-ID: 3707
MOB writes:
>Maculus, somewhat drained (having expended 90 magic points!)
>watches on with wry amusement as the Sun Town watch show up,
>casting Light spells of their own, to drag off the thug.
Huh. Just as likely, the watch drag off the geezer, since
he was doing all the beating when they arrived! Haven't you read
Catch-22? ;-)
Seriously, though, having the fuzz arrive is an anachronism,
and anachronisms really irk me in RPGs and fantasy fiction. I
got into a looooong discussion of this on-line once before, so
I'm not going to get deep into it again. Suffice it to say that
"the watch" ought to stop fires and riots; the way to deal with
an on-going crime (in areas analogous to Europe) is to raise the
hue and cry, after which all able-bodied men are legally required
to aid in apprehending the criminal and bringing him to the
sheriff; prisons were rare in the ancient world, and justice
swift (shoot, Delaware was caning people into the 20th century
because they didn't want to build prisons!)
If anyone is interested, we could start a thread on
weregilds, sheriffs, Orlanthi resentment at arbitrary Lunar
house-to-house searches, and the effects of magic on legal
systems. Since my Malkioni legal schools are definitely getting
cut from Codex #2, I may post them here.
John Hughes says:
>If some snotty-nosed brat whose breasts are
>only just beginning to bud hangs around your temple
>wanting to listen to the stories, watch the training and
>handle your iron sword, wouldn't you encourage her -
>even if you knew she was a regular out on Old Windbag's
>hill?
That depends. But it depends on personalities, perceived
aptitudes, prejudices--things that have nothing to do with the
game system. (I like your point, but you need a better example.)
--Martin