From: RuneQuest-Request@Glorantha.Holland.Sun.COM (RQ Digest Maintainer)
To: RuneQuest@Glorantha.Holland.Sun.COM (Daily automated RQ-Digest)
Reply-To: RuneQuest@Glorantha.Holland.Sun.COM (RuneQuest Daily)
Subject: RuneQuest Daily, Thu, 21 Apr 1994, part 1
Sender: Henk.Langeveld@Holland.Sun.COM
Content-Return: Prohibited
Precedence: junk
X-RQ-ID: Intro
This is the RuneQuest Daily Bulletin, a mailing list on
the subjects of Avalon Hill's RPG and Greg Stafford's
world of Glorantha. It is sent out once per day in digest
format.
More details on the RuneQuest Daily and Digest can be found
after the last message in this digest.
---------------------
From: news@aft-ms
Subject: test, pls ignore
Message-ID: <9404200737.AA21072@aft-ms.Holland.Sun.COM>
Date: 20 Apr 94 08:37:44 GMT
X-RQ-ID: 3719
Where does this go?
---------------------
From: davidc@cs.uwa.edu.au (David Cake)
Subject: Re: those boring Malkioni
Message-ID: <199404200803.QAA26156@kultarr.cs.uwa.oz.au>
Date: 20 Apr 94 08:05:10 GMT
X-RQ-ID: 3720
Part of the problem most people have with Malkioni is that they are
seen as analogous to the Church in Mediaeval Europe, their religion is seen as
more like current Earthly religious practices, and thus seen as basically less
interesting. Personally I think that that taking that basic position and
developing it some more will seem it amke more interesting. For example the
heresies in Malkionism are seen as like heresies in the Christian Church, and
to most people this seems dull - but read a little mediaeval history, and you
will find things like the Albigensian Crusade that give you more of a feeling
for what heresies lead to.
Not that I count the Malkionists as analogous to the Christian Church.
Indeed, while (for example) the Rokari have a social structure similar to the
idealised mediaval feudalism, the Hrestoli, by linking personal power in part
to religious advancement probably have some similarities to Islam - and having
all their religious leaders as experienced warriors probably makes them very
prone to the jihad - or maybe particularly unprone, who is too say. There are
also far more interesting ways to interpret the heresies - the stated
differences between sects I assume are only the game effects of the heresy -
no doubt there are much deeper philosophical reasons behind them that give them
much more game flavour. For example the Galvosti allow the Tapping of
non-Malkioni - but why? Perhaps they believe that non-Malkioni are not human?
Perhaps they believe that they have no souls? What does this mean? Will they
even talk to non-Malkioni? What is their attitude to the lapsed believer?
How do orthodox Malkioni feel about Brithini or vice versa? What about the
Carmanians, who incorporate other gods. This is the equivalent of a Christian
Churhc setting up a shrine to Osiris or Odin in the corner, at least this is
how it probably appears to the Orthodox Hrestoli. I find the Malkioni
religion (or group of religions, more appropriately) to be far more conducive
to confusing politics, and paranoia, if you desire, or more conducive to
no holds barred us-against-them no shades of grey holy missions if you prefer.
The fact that less of its cosmology is written into the rules seems to make it
more flexible.
And as for a lack of roles, I include various fighting orders, Guilds
(who teach appropriate sorcerous secrets to Master Craftsmen), factions within
the nobility, patron Saints, and various sorcerers who teach outside the
strict teaching of the Church (Alchemists, for example).
Anyway, I hope that has given people the idea. Perhaps I will write
something more concrete up for TOTRM. If anyone actually has anything more
about the philosophical underpinnings and differences in Malkioism I would
love to hear it.
Cheers
Dave Cake
---------------------
From: johnston@heart.enet.dec.com (Groove Requiem..)
Subject: re: Sandys Pamaltelan campaign
Message-ID: <9404200858.AA04519@vbormc.vbo.dec.com>
Date: 20 Apr 94 09:09:06 GMT
X-RQ-ID: 3721
jacobus@sonata.cc.purdue.edu (Bryan J. Maloney) writes:
>>Has the voluminous material that was worked out over the years in that
>>wonderful Baltimore campaign ever actually been PUBLISHED anywhere, or are
>>we stuck in the too-damned-familiar boat of being screwed no matter what we
>>do because we do not have access to reams of unpublished and unavailable
>>material, so we must scurry along like pathetic mice, too frightened to
>>actually write anything for fear that we will be castigated for coming
>>into conflict with "holy knowledge" that has been kept secret from us poor,
>>benighted newcomers?
The fact that it hasnt been published isnt Sandys fault. It was some of the
last writing he did before leaving Chaosium remember. Anyway he's written a
surprising amount about Pamaltela in the Daily, if you take the time to
extract it.
Some Pamaltela info HAS been published elsewhere:
Intro to Glorantha book: Paragraph on each major land area
Secrets Book (elder secrets): Info on dangerous places, etc
Heros (issue ?): The land of Fonrit
Breakout (issue 34): The land of Umathela
TOTRM 11: The land of Jolar, cult of Pamalt
Gloranthan bestiary: various beasties
RQ-Daily: Info on the Doraddi, Kresh, Gods of
Pamaltela, and lots of other little
bits.
John Hughes had access to a lot more unpublished info when he wrote his stuff
for TOTRM. I had thought it was obvious who had written most of the Pamaltela
info; at the last Convulsion I remember him describing the Pamaltelan lands
and creatures in loving detail. His description of the Hoolar was great.
I would love to get hold of the campaign log for that Pamaltelan campaign. I
bid an awful lot of money for it at Convulsion, and STILL didnt get it. ;-(
I hope he continues to write for the Daily. In a lot of ways I prefer his
writings to Gregs. Gregs stuff is great for you Mythology freaks ;-) but
I find Sandys more useful for running a game with.
nigel
---------------------
From: johnston@heart.enet.dec.com (Groove Requiem..)
Subject: Correction (re: Sandys Pamaltelan campaign)
Message-ID: <9404201010.AA07779@vbormc.vbo.dec.com>
Date: 20 Apr 94 10:15:42 GMT
X-RQ-ID: 3722
Oops, just read my own note again.. Butterfingers forgot to start a new
paragraph...
>John Hughes had access to a lot more unpublished info when he wrote his stuff
>for TOTRM. I had thought it was obvious who had written most of the Pamaltela
>info; at the last Convulsion I remember him describing the Pamaltelan lands
>and creatures in loving detail. His description of the Hoolar was great.
I'm talking about Sandy here, not John. In case it isnt obvious. ;-)
nigel
---------------------
From: rowe@soda.berkeley.edu (Eric Rowe)
Subject: Re: Sandy's Palmaltelan Material
Message-ID: <199404201159.EAA03390@soda.berkeley.edu>
Date: 19 Apr 94 21:59:11 GMT
X-RQ-ID: 3723
Bryan Maloney expresses (in excellent satiric form) the deep regret
that many of us feel about the vast amounts of Gloranthan 'official'
material that resides in dark drawers unpublished. However, unless
this is an offer by Bryan to bankroll the man-hours, material and
other costs associated with publishing this material, then he should
reserve his critisisms for .frp where his satirical wit is needed
vastly more than it is here. Let's try to do what we can to increase
the likelihood and profitability of future products. Money talks.
eric
ps Ask me about RQ Con 2
---------------------
From: JARDINE@RMCS.CRANFIELD.AC.UK
Subject: Sandy TTFN & other things
Message-ID: <9404201205.AA05356@Sun.COM>
Date: 20 Apr 94 11:15:00 GMT
X-RQ-ID: 3724
Hi All
Bye for now Sandy, we'll miss you valuable insight and sharp comments. But, we in England look forward to seeing you at Convulsion.
Before you sign off I have a couple of things for you to mull over.
Broo; impregnate or parasitize? I am not sure that the marking theory
stands up although other pregenetics theories such as prolonged contact do.
For the marking theory take the example of the rumoured allosaurus broo.
I can't believe that this broo's mother was very frightened by the broo
who did something slimy to her just before she munched him! But, maybe
it was the (foul) taste of the late and unlamented father...
Vadeli information: YES, YES, YES PLEASE.
Other things:
Jonas Schiott: GRAY and GRoY are abreviations for a limited edition spiral
bound photocopied document about the Dara Happans published by
Greg Satfford through Wizard's Attic (1-800-213-1493) for $25.
The official title is:
The Glorious ReAscent of Yelm
The Capitalization is the original one on the cover, thus I prefer
the abreviation GRAY (american for GREY) which has lovely images
of dimmed light and half-truths (I wonder if this was intentional).
Illusions: I believe that they first appeared in the RQ Companion.
Steve? German and English: I have always found that the languages are very
closely related and that I can often guess the meaning of German
words by looking for words which are similar in English. This
relationship is not too surprising since the two languages have
common historical roots.
Of course this kind of translation is not fool proof and it is possible to make mistakes because the two languages have diverged from a
common root. A typical example which happened to me recently was
that a German who speaks excellent English wrote to me saying that
he was unlucky about something. This was a literal translation of
the German word *ungluclich* (I have probably spelt this wrong and
I think that there is an umlaut in the middle). Obviously, unhappy
would have been a better translation, but we can still understand
the gist.
I feel that maybe a linguistics skill should be introduced to allow
characters to easily translate between similar languages. The reason
that I believe this to be necessary is that I have met people who
are unable to do these *obvious (to me)* translations, but who are
just as good speakers of English (thus invalidating the RQ3 system
for speaking similar languages). The mechanic I propose is that
the linguistics skill % is the maximum % which he/she can use of
a language for determination of his/her ability to speak other
related languages.
Example: I speak English at 90%, but I have only 60% linguistics.
English speakers *can* speak German at one third of their skill.
And English speakers can speak French at one quarter of their skill.
Thus my base speak German is 20% and my base speak French is 15%.
Obviously if another language is related to German, but not English
I could understand it at the appropriate fraction of my speak
German %.
This is a fairly simple mechanic which is a good deal more realistic
than the current RQ3 ruling and requires the absolute minimum of
changes.
Lewis
---------------------
From: jacobus@sonata.cc.purdue.edu (Bryan J. Maloney)
Subject: Discovered Tricksters
Message-ID: <9404201403.AA05615@sonata.cc.purdue.edu>
Date: 20 Apr 94 04:03:25 GMT
X-RQ-ID: 3725
Here's how I tend to run what happens when people discover that somebody is
a Trickster:
1: They become community whipping boys. Whenever the young toughs want to
show how macho they are, they go pick on the Trickster. (This makes life for
Uzko Tricksters VERY rough.)
2: They become convenient scapegoats. If something goes wrong beat the shit
out of the Trickster.
3: They are almost never, ever killed out of hand. Why? Everybody knows that
it's bad luck to kill a Trickster, so you just kick him in the head.
Why would any sane person want to be a Trickster, given the above? Well, most
Tricksters AREN'T sane. Also, they do have important ritual functions within
some religions (particularly the Orlanthi religion). After all, Orlanth's
High Holy Day just isn't the same without the Trickster leading Orlanth to
Death, is it? And who else would have the gall (or the social permission) to
tell the chief's sadistic brute of a son how much of a pompous ass he was,
and then puke all over him?
I'm not sure where I came across this approach, but it makes sense--the
"acceptable outcast" who is able to ignore convention (within limits).
---------------------
From: scuw5@central.sussex.ac.uk
Subject: Writing In Glorantha...
Message-ID: <1877.199404201301@solb3.central.susx.ac.uk>
Date: 20 Apr 94 15:01:45 GMT
X-RQ-ID: 3726
Are there any references to written forms of Gloranthan languages?
Presumably the folks on the East coast use Oriental-style
pictogrammatics, but what about other places? The handouts which come
with Big Rubble would suggest that the Lunars have printing
technology. Would the runic forms feature in the written language of
the worshippers (the Godunya rune looks much like a Chinese ideogram,
certainly, but that's probably not the best example. Would Yelmalians
dot their i's with the Sun Dome rune?!) Just how literate are
Gloranthans?
J
---------------------
From: joe@sartar.toppoint.de (Joerg Baumgartner)
Subject: Re: RuneQuest Daily, Wed, 20 Apr 1994, part 1
Message-ID:
Date: 20 Apr 94 14:24:48 GMT
X-RQ-ID: 3727
Ed Wallman in X-RQ-ID: 3698
> Sandy, Sen of Peter replies:
> I should admit that I do not play these games, and my favorite
> campaign was RQ vikings. So personal preference is playing a large
> part here. But I still look at the options available to Orlanthi
> compared to Malkioni. There are seven or more "personas" to choose
> to emulate in the society. Each has rich myths and varying levels of
> accomplishment. Orlanthi PCs are usually from any of these cults. Malkioni
> PCs are from a max of 4 types, and the Invisible God never did or does
> anything until you are dead. What a role model!
I continue to disagree. The Invisible God created the world, and did
little more - ok, so he's out as a role model. So is the Red Goddess -
or how many of your characters are born by a bunch of magicians forcing
a Godtime spirit into a human shell, and finally gather some dirt and
become a stellar body?
Like in Lunar religion, the side-characters of the (quite rich)
Malkioni myth provide the role models. The easiest (and most boring)
role models are Hrestol the knight and the four sons and one daughter
of Malkion: Talar, Zzabur, Horal, Dronal, Menena. They are the
equivalents to Orlanthi Orlanth Rex rulers, Orlanth Thunderous priests,
Orlanth Adventurous warriors, Barntar farmers or Ernalda women. More
than 85% (an Orlanthi "all") belong to these cults.
Your characters tend to be eccentrics, chosing minor or different
deities? Then let's visit the purely Malkioni array of saints. Paslac
and Gerlant Flamesword double as saints for rulers, Arkat and Talor for
warriors, adding to the Hrestol - Horal schisma, Xemela is another
major female saint competing with Menena, Valkaro makes a good second
choice for a wizard. You want something for real outsiders? Consider
Worlath, Humct, Ehilm, although this is bordering on Stygian or
Henotheist Malkionism. More choices for wizards? Well, there's Rokar,
founder of his sect, and doubtlessly the Galvosti and Boristi have
similar founding heroes, pardon, saints.
You want more sects? Paul Reilly described the differences between
Junoran and Loskalmi Hrestoli after the Thaw quite drastically. The
Jonating wizards subject themselves to the Ecclesiarch in Southpoint,
although their sect thoroughly differs in vital points. The Castle
Coast Hrestoli are probably a lot more linealist than their Loskalmi
counterparts, only they allow more freedom and caste mobility than the
Rokari.
You want different fighters? In Loskalm there seem to be oodles of
knightly orders, each devoted to a different aspect of chivalrous
duties. Specialized priests? Like specialized wizards, only out of own
choice, or because the home monastery put its weight in education this
way.
> I guess my complaint here would get down to the lack of published
> material. These two items are not in the published materials so they have
> to be made up (i.e. more work). There are few mentions of social upheavals
> in the western cultures, and the overall impression I get is that society is
> stable (social structures, not political). Fuel for social conflict is
> heaped upon every Orlanthi chapter. But then, there are more
> Orlanthi chapters so maybe just that is the problem.
This lack could partly stem from an expectation that people were able
to make up the more familiar feudal society themselves. The west is
better off than the Lunar Empire, anyway - it is detailed in the
Genertela Players Book.
> Yes, but here is my gripe about Malkioni sects. Some comparisons:
[...]
> MALKIONI PEASANT: Why are the Galvosti evil?
> MALKIONI WIZARD: Their wizards tap non-Malkioni. These wizards make
> up less than 5% of population, you probably will never meet one, and
> they don't really tap our people, but they are EVIL! PURE EVIL!
You phrased this extremely lamely. About like this:
ORLANTHI FARMER: Why are the illuminates evil?
ORLANTHI PRIEST: They don't hurry to kill chaos. These illuminates make
up less than 5% of the Empire's population, so you'll probably never
meet one, and they won't really iluminate you, but they are EVIL! PURE
EVIL!
You'd get a less than enthusiastic response.
Whereas:
ROKARI SERF: Why is the Hrestoli sect evil?
ROKARI WIZARD: They don't know their station in life, and their souls
won't reach solace because of the terrible sins of envy and ambition.
Never fall in the traps of their glib oratory, only the man who knows
his station in this world will know his station in Solace!
> What do we know about these heresies? Their descriptions are ho-hum.
> Their differences seem to revolve around a single spell (tap) that
> not only the average person will not know, but probably only the more
> powerful wizards will. Maybe I just have trouble relating to a
> society model that would do things like burn down the Jewish quarter
> for the shaky reasoning that they killed Christ.
Well, think of medieval history, the religious dissenters like Wiclif's
followers or the Czech Hussites, who were bloodily persecuted, only
because they had dared to use a translated version of the bible the
farmer class could understand. Now think of the Hrestoli - Rokari
schisma...
> The only real interesting heresy is the Stygian heresy which is
> described like all the rest in a paragraph here and there.
It's certainly the most controversial group of heresies collected into
one paragraph. I'll see what I can do about that...
> Again, my gripe might just be lack of material. But that is why I
> am anxious to see in the TOTRM Malkioni issue. Just two issues off
> so that would put its arrival date in June, 1999. :-)
Unlikely. With Convulsion '94 and its main theme, the 7th
Ecclesiastical Concile, held at Sog City, a flood of Western material
is going to wash down on us, and maybe Codex 2 with lots of Western
stuff will beat it with its arrival.
--
-- Joerg Baumgartner joe@sartar.toppoint.de
---------------------
From: niwe@ppvku.ericsson.se (Nils Weinander)
Subject: The west, or Nils vs Joerg
Message-ID: <9404201433.AA11403@ppvku.ericsson.se>
Date: 20 Apr 94 18:33:39 GMT
X-RQ-ID: 3728
Nils Weinander writing
Joerg wrote in response to my rantings:
>No chance of advancement? Every good Malkioni can aspire to become a
>Saint of his church, if she wants to walk the hero path. A Rokari
>farmer could become the patron of plowman or the protector of saplings.
>A crafter could become the acknowledged Saint of his particular craft, or
>technique. Both without leaving the confinements of his caste.
I would say that the chance of becoming a Malkioni saint is far smaller
than the chance of becoming a theistic priest or rune lord. I would also
think that sainthood is a posthumous virtue (this might be a stupid
geocentrism on my part though).
>Most Loskalmi knights seem to be Byzantine heavy lancers rather than
I like the byzantine analogy. Since I don't feel comfortable with a
medieval-type region in Glorantha I have toyed with the thought of the
west as sort of 5th century byzantine, with feudalism instead of the
dominate.
>Prax is original in its conception of beast-riders, or at least I know
>of no real earth society which worked like this.
The beast riders are original, yes, but IMO the main reason for Glorantha's
originality is the tight coupling with the mythology, through the cults
and the spirit world, and the magical geography. As the humanistic west
has renounced the gods and have very little shamanism, it is more distant
from the living myth of Glorantha. That is what gives me a generic
fantasy feeling about the west. As for the magical geography I mean
things like the Block, Hellcrack, mountains which are dragons or giants
etc. There might be such stuff in the west too, which I am ignorant of.
>If you play Pendragon, you play pure (late medieval) fantasy.
A Pendragon campign set in the interregnum is very different from one
set in the age of romance which is very different from one set in the
downfall of the arthurian period.
All in all, what this comes up to is the usual: Glorantha can be many
things to different people. As there are many cultures and interpretations
each one can go with what feels right, right? :-) I don't want to be
the cause of an endless discussion, so unless some really interesting
points come up I consider my point made and go on to other issues.
/Nils W
---------------------
From: vingkot@aol.com
Subject: fragmented and lost RuneQuest Daily
Message-ID: <9404201052.tn78091@aol.com>
Date: 20 Apr 94 14:52:47 GMT
X-RQ-ID: 3729
Hello.
On both 04-19-94, and 04-20-94 I received only a partial of the RQ Daily. Do
you know if this is this due to a problem on my end, your end, or something
inbetween?
Your reply is greatly appreciated.
--Curtis Taylor
|||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
All my friends are black and red.
Send your spoon man to vingkot@aol.com
|||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||