From: RuneQuest-Request@Glorantha.Holland.Sun.COM (RQ Digest Maintainer)
To: RuneQuest@Glorantha.Holland.Sun.COM (Daily automated RQ-Digest)
Reply-To: RuneQuest@Glorantha.Holland.Sun.COM (RuneQuest Daily)
Subject: RuneQuest Daily, Fri, 06 May 1994, part 3
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From: joe@sartar.toppoint.de (Joerg Baumgartner)
Subject: Initiation conclusion - not yet, but working on it
Message-ID:
Date: 6 May 94 06:23:34 GMT
X-RQ-ID: 3930
Martin Crim in X-RQ-ID: 3910
> Speaking of disagreeing strongly:
> Will Joerg and Alex please restate their points of view about
> whatever it is that they're talking about? I think it was god v.
> pantheon initiation, initially, but I can't tell my players even
> WITH a scorecard, at this point. Now that you've had a chance to
> go point/counterpoint for a while, maybe you could sum up.
I'd like to (although there's a hell of a lot to conclude), but I've
got a few questions before.
There are an awful lot of Orlanth subcults.
Is an initiate of O.Adventurous simultaneously an initiate of
O.Thunderous? Any of these an initiate of O.Lightbringer? Certainly
not automatically an initiate of O.Rex?
And the rarer subcults: O.Goodvoice, O.Lawspeaker, O.Clown are
mentioned in the Different Worlds write-up. O.Maker was mentioned
when I asked for the crafter's cult in Orlanthi society.
Now everyone can see that these are (quite poor) excuses for combined
Orlanth and Issaries, Lhankor Mhy, Eurmal or Gustbran worship. To
enter level 2 of the Hughesian discussion levels (RQ-G), they are ways
to avoid the extra POW sacrifice but get the advantages of the associate
cult. No doubt one could find O.Berserk (Urox), O.Deathbringer (Humakt),
O.Plowman (Barntar), O.Landgod (Ernalda), and maybe even O.Cold Sun
(Elmal) if one munchikinizes.
The point I want to make from partly RQ, partly Gloranthan level (sorry,
John, I can't keep up with these declarations) is that there is no
consistent system in the GL one cult - one deity concept. If we look into
KoS, we find the (intentionally misleading) autobiography of Minaryth
Purple-turned-Blue "Events of my life". This scholar is generally
regarded as Lhankor Mhy initiate, being a grey sage, sporting a goaty,
and walking with a slight limp ever since the dragon of the Sartar Reaching
Moon temple bit off the heels of his boots. Yet this worthy was initiated
with the other boys at the age of 14, lived as a cottar (not
thane, although elected before buying the oxen), owning a half-team
of Oxen (until the Lunars take it), and plowing his half hide of fields.
He fights in the fyrd (militia) like all the other Orlanth Thunderous- or
Barntar-initiates. Leaving literature level, and entering RQ-level again,
it is highly unlikely that a 14-year-old boy will be accepted as initiate
of Lhankor Mhy (which requires almost Rune Lord abilities, although in
trainable skills), yet he is initiated only once. (He can write, and is
elected - presumably into the clan ring - at age 17, so his Lhankor
Mhy link is not deniable.)
My easiest solutions: 1. the write-up in RoC is wrong, or preferedly
2. the man was initiated into the pantheon, and slowly developed his
membership in good standing in both the Orlanth and the Lhankor Mhy
cult without further major rites of passage. This is one example of
initiation into the pantheon, with special emphasis on a deity not
the primary "object" of initiation.
Likewise, any rural Orlanthi male specialises his worship, most farmers
favour Barntar, while some choose the more exotic deities, like Heler,
Harst and others, and simultaneously initiated to Orlanth. As boys,
they were quasi-initiated to Voriof, and as elders past fighting age
they might belong to another age group cult.
From the rules side, I argue that one minor cult within the Orlanth
pantheon comes sooner or later with the standard religious initiation,
and only additional specialized worship beyond the first
necessitates additional initiation-POW sacrifice-tithes etc. (I can
see Alex getting an attack of icks here .)
Leaving the Orlanthi, let's visit the Yelmalians, i.e. the Solar hill
barbarians throughout southern Peloria and northern Dragon Pass. The
situation is similar to that of the Orlanthi - one dominant male deity,
and a couple of specialist deities at his side. For instance in Balazar
there would be Foundchild, Mralota, or simply a clan founder. (I'd still
like to know by which name these people, outside of Lunar influence,
know their solar deity.)
Moving on into the Pelorian bowl, we get the Lodrili, with Lodril as the
main male figure - never mind the foreign overlords, who over time
worshipped Waha, Orlanth, the Invisible God, Yelm, or the Lunar array.
Lodril is a jack of all trades, warrior, plowman, crafter, advisor and
fertility-bringer, just like Orlanth above, but also the Pelorian
farmers have their specialist cults within general Lodril worship.
In all these cases, initiate status with the major male deity of the
culture is the basic definition for all males, and likewise for females.
Specialization (for the good of the community, and be it the base
specialization like Barntar) isn't penalized with extra tithing, extra
temple duty etc. On the other hand, specialization for selfish gains
deserves all the disadvantages the rules prescribe for "adventurer"
characters. (Does this relieve your icks, Alex?)
The trend seem to be less adventuring, more society-immanent characters,
at least on this list, so these game balancisms are outdated, IMO, and
other concepts for initiatory membership need to be developed.
For urban characters, I think the situation is more complex. Too complex
to discuss it this late.
--
-- Joerg Baumgartner joe@sartar.toppoint.de
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