From: RuneQuest-Request@Glorantha.Holland.Sun.COM (RQ Digest Maintainer) To: RuneQuest@Glorantha.Holland.Sun.COM (Daily automated RQ-Digest) Reply-To: RuneQuest@Glorantha.Holland.Sun.COM (RuneQuest Daily) Subject: RuneQuest Daily, Mon, 09 May 1994, part 1 Sender: Henk.Langeveld@Holland.Sun.COM Content-Return: Prohibited Precedence: junk X-RQ-ID: Intro This is the RuneQuest Daily Bulletin, a mailing list on the subjects of Avalon Hill's RPG and Greg Stafford's world of Glorantha. It is sent out once per day in digest format. More details on the RuneQuest Daily and Digest can be found after the last message in this digest. --------------------- From: 100270.337@CompuServe.COM (Nick Brooke) Subject: Pretty Elves and Blueskins Message-ID: <940507073435_100270.337_BHL22-1@CompuServe.COM> Date: 7 May 94 07:34:36 GMT X-RQ-ID: 3941 Glad you liked the write-up, Alex! I agree about Yelmic nobility lording it over racially-distinct Lodrili peasants: remember my Von Daniken pastiche ascribing their origins to two types of spaceship? One of the incidental joys of ancient history (sorry, Devin!) was discovering the Babylonian underclass were called 'blackheads' by all their various rulers... I'm not sure I did Nick you with Carmanian Kshatriya: try using the three cities of the Tripolis as 'caste-functions', Priests (Yuthuppa), Noblemen (Raibanth) and Soldiers (Alkoth). Yuthuppan Astrologers and Augurs are like the real-world Chaldaeans and Etruscans rolled into one. Alkoth gets all the great Spartan customs and mannerisms, and Roman military discipline perhaps. Raibanth ain't what it used to be since Glamour was built next door... Enjoyed Sandy's piece on old Yelmic nobility fallen into genteel decay. To find a Third Age role for them, I borrow from the Romans: the Dara Happan nobility work in my view of the Lunar Empire much as the Roman Republican Senatorial class did in the early Roman Empire. The channels of power have been redrawn to exclude them, with jumped-up nobodies (Commoners! Slaves!! Women!!!) holding 'new' offices in the bureaucracy which really runs the state, but the form of the old government is retained in many places, with trivial jobs that only Yelmic Nobles can be appointed to (often in the municipal government of Dara Happan cities!). I am pretty sure there is a Lunar Imperial Senate, and similarly sure that it is essentially a useless body. Though they do get to wear neat togas... I'm using a lot of 'parallels' here to get ideas across; sorry if anyone gets upset by this handy shorthand. Please, let's not have a "That idiot Nick says Lunars are Romans..." flaming session. Sandy wrote: > Mike Dickison says that trolls aren't insects (I agree) and elf women > shouldn't have breasts because they're not mammals. He also feels > that elves should be ugly as sin. A long-standing tradition on not > only Glorantha but Earth is that the woods-inhabiting Faery should be > inhumanly beautiful, or at least intriguing. I think some elves -- the ones selected for it -- are inhumanly beautiful. Others look more like lurching things out of Mythago Wood. These don't get to meet people so often, and when they do they're mistaken for War Trees. Dan's pic of a Wenelian elf in Tales #9 is persuasive to me as an average. (Hey, back in RQ2 days the average elf had a human-perceived CHA of 4). But then I also believe elves are more functionally specialised than the rules let on. So 'breeding' (pruning? gardening?) attractive, personable elves to meet the outside world would make lots of sense. And, of course, these would be the ones we meet most of the time. > I think that elf women have breasts because they're a lot less > interesting without them. Agreed. Like duck teeth, really. MOB asked: > A question: when the renascent Vadeli arrived off the Pamaltelan sea- > board claiming they were gods (neato trick!), what did they think of > the wretched Blueskins (Veldang) of Fonrit? Or are they the wrong > shade of blue? I wonder if the Second Age Jrusteli Empire made quasi-genocidal attempts on the blueskins of Pamaltela for ancestral/religious reasons. Certainly they could have invoked a religious justification for any kind of oppression or brutality against the Veldang. And this cultural attitude would still be found in Third Age Umathela. IMHO, things that really bug the Brithini are likely to have been passed down to other Western cultures: hatred of the Vadeli is one of these. "Thou shalt not suffer a blueskin to live". Cain and Abel? I meant to hybridise this some day with Abraham and Isaac, but forgot to do so in time for my last posting. Is it possible for the Vadeli to use Hrestoli concepts of caste-mobility, and ascend through their 'species' caste-structure? I read one of Greg's Ancient Western Sources when I visited Chaosium in which Hrestol becomes "Judge of the Vadeli" after his exile from Seshneg; the Vadeli were not developed in this account at all, and Hrestol ruled them as a nice guy in the story. Me, I'd keep the title but change the tale... ==== Nick ==== Is the Pharaoh a Blue Vadeli?? --------------------- From: email@example.com Subject: Rune Metals Message-ID: <firstname.lastname@example.org> Date: 8 May 94 00:27:16 GMT X-RQ-ID: 3942 Here is something I wrote three years ago, and recently updated. It might prove useful to some people. METAL NOTES Martin Crim There are some problems with the metal rules. For one thing, published sources keep changing the storm gods' and lunars' associated metals. In RQ II, the storm gods had tin and the lunars had silver. In Gods of Glorantha, the storm gods had silver and the lunars had no associated metal. In Elder Secrets, the storm gods have bronze, and the lunars are undefined. Elder Secrets probably makes the most sense, but then why does it give Orlanth and the lunar cults Enchant Silver? Maybe the Moon rune should have an entirely new metal, as befits its status as the sixth element. It is dangerous to forget that Gloranthan metals' english names are just analogues, but for simplicity's sake, we could call the lunar metal selenium. It would be extremely rare, extracted from moon-rocks or the minerals of the blue moon plateau. Its properties would be a secret of the lunar empire. Since earth's selenium is photoelectric, glorantha's might be photo-magical. On the other hand, silver has been identified too strongly with the lunars to entirely sever the connection. The province under the moon is called Silver Shadow, for one thing. Another problem with Elder Secrets is that it does not give Lodril Enchant Aluminum (called lo-metal, for Lodril's metal). It does give him Enchant Tin (Dayzatar's metal), which "is not often enchanted." I suggest that Lodril get Enchant Aluminum instead of, or in addition to, Enchant Tin. After all, one of Lodril's sub-cults is Gustbran, the smith. Gustbran worshiped independently should get at least Enchant Iron and Enchant Aluminum. Why does Lhankor Mhy get Enchant Iron? Does this make sense to anybody? For any cult to have gotten Enchant Iron, a hero of that cult must have gained the secrets of iron from the dwarfs or from some other possessor of iron. Then that hero must have accomplished a second great deed to gain the secret power of passing the first secret along. The list on page 36 of Elder Secrets' Secrets Book excludes a large number of cults. The following list fills in some of those excluded, and clearly indicates which cults lack Enchant [Metal]. I haven't done all cults; even MY bullheadedness has limits. GODS AND GOD-ANALOGUES: Aleshmara: none Ancestor Worship: none Annilla: Enchant Lead Aranea: Enchant Lead Barntar: none Black Fang: none Black Sun: Enchant Lead Bolongo: none Brastalos: Enchant Quicksilver Caladra & Aurelion: Enchant Copper, Enchant Gold, Enchant Iron Calyz: Enchant Aluminum, Enchant Copper Chalana Arroy: none Daka Fal: none Danfive Xaron: Enchant Iron Dayzatar: Enchant Tin Deezola: Enchant Copper Dendara: Enchant Copper Donandar: none Dormal: Enchant Quicksilver Eiritha: none Elmal: Enchant Iron Etyries: Enchant Silver Eurmal: none Flamal: none Furalor: Enchant Iron Gagarth: Enchant Iron Gbaji: none Geo: none Godunya: Enchant Iron (Godunya magic) Golden Bow: Enchant Gold Gorakiki: none Grain Goddess: none Gustbran: Enchant Iron, Enchant Aluminum Heler: Enchant Quicksilver Himile: Enchant Lead Hon-eel: Enchant Copper Horned God: usually none Hungry Ghosts: none Hwarin Dalthippa: Enchant Iron Hyalor: Enchant Gold Hykim: none Immanent Mastery, Path of: none Inora: none Irrippi Ontor: none Issaries: none Jakaleel: Enchant Lead Jmijie: none Kalikos: Enchant Gold Krarsht: none Lightfore: Enchant Gold Lokarnos: Enchant Gold Lorion: Enchant Quicksilver Mahome: none Mastakos: none Molanni: none Oakfed: none Odayla: none Ourania: Enchant Gold, Enchant Tin Pamalt: Enchant Copper Pavis: Enchant Iron Polaris: Enchant Gold, Enchant Iron Praxian Spirit Cults: none Solf: as per Lodril Somash: as per Yelm Spirit Cults: usually none (if any is given, it is the only divine spell that spirit gives) Teelo Norri: none Telmor: none Third Eye Blue: Enchant Iron (sorcery) Valind: Enchant Iron Voria: none Waha: none Xentha: Enchant Lead Xiola Umbar: Enchant Lead Yanafal Tarnils: Enchant Iron Yara Aranis: Enchant Iron Zola Fel: Enchant Quicksilver Zong: none MALKIONI SECTS AND SAINTS (all sorcerous, and wizard caste only): Brithini: all Enchant [Metal] spells Stygians: by saint or cult Vadeli: all Enchant [Metal] spells All else: available through saint's shrines (usually a matrix in an altar) Saint Arkat: Enchant Iron, Enchant Lead Saint Dormal: Enchant Quicksilver Saint Gerlant: Enchant Iron Saint Hrestol: Enchant Iron Saint Malkion: Enchant Iron Saint Paslac: Enchant Gold, Enchant Iron Saint Talor: Enchant Iron Saint Valkaro: Enchant Quicksilver Saint Xemela: Enchant Copper EVIL CULTS: Bagog: none Cacodemon: none Crimson Bat: Enchant Iron Gark: none Ikadz: none Krarsht: none Malia: Enchant Lead Ompalam: Enchant Iron Pocharngo: none Seseine: none Thanatar: Tien: Enchant Tarnished Silver, Atyar: none Thed: none Vivamort: Enchant Iron, Enchant Lead (sorcerous) [end] --------------------- From: email@example.com Subject: Re: Runegate; Initiation Message-ID: <9405072134.AA00344@bondi.phyast.pitt.edu> Date: 7 May 94 21:34:26 GMT X-RQ-ID: 3943 Paul Reilly here. Alex Ferguson writes: > I happen to know a bit detail info on Jonstown, from the united > efforts of a group of friends in contact with Greg and AH. I know someone else has Alda-Chur staked out. Does anyone have info on Runegate? I would like to write a story set in some town in the region, but want to avoid stepping on anyone's toes. Thus I am looking for a town that no-one else is working on. ------ There has been much discussion of late on Initiation. I have come to believe that this is a development of the process by which a shaman develops a presence on the Other Side. The Initiate also develops a presence on the Other Side, but is restricted to walk in his god's domain. The shaman is much freer in his exploration of the Otherworld, but does not have the protection of his society and his God - he must face the Bad Man himself. If there is interest I can post something longer on this topic. -Paul --------------------- From: firstname.lastname@example.org Subject: Re: RuneQuest Daily, Fri, 06 May 1994, part 1 Message-ID: <9405072154.AA00348@bondi.phyast.pitt.edu> Date: 7 May 94 21:54:12 GMT X-RQ-ID: 3944 I write: > > They (UZ) were not forced to take > >particular shapes until exposed to Yelm's light (when he went to the > >Underworld.) >I disagree: They interacted with other races long before Yelm was slain. They COULD take shapes, but were still Shapestrong: they were not bound to a particular shape until Light burned off most of their powers. And Uz heroes who ventured up into the realms of Light would be forced into shape early on, cf: > How would Gash and Gore have known their path to the surface world had >they not traveled it in the shape they had on their exodus? Also remember >the troll family tree in Uz Lore. See my comments about mating and eating. p > Like other darkness creatures, Uz could practice p> eating-and-becoming: eating something to take on its shape and properties. j>Hmm. This sort of shape change is related to Triolina in GoG. In the Water is the Second Element and creatures of the Deep are still shapestrong. >I find the equation of all insect life = darkness doubtful even for >Glorantha. The timinits surely aren't darkness creatures the way bats >or trolls are. Bees and wasps have too many solar functions to really I think that bees, etc. can have lost their Darkness just as trollkin are doing and Muri have done to some extent. Light overcomes Darkness, and Darkness creatures are stuck in the Hurtplace, an alien realm. They adapt (like bees or Muri) or die (like Uzko). j > Strange. Most molds and mushrooms eat themselves into the plant (or its j>decaying remnants) from the outside. They don't ingest the plants into a stomach like an animal, instead they grow themselves into the plant. (At least where I come from - do fungi in Germany swallow?) p>Dwarfs ... p> can make working metal limbs for humans (Arazban (sp?) & Count Alehandro) j>Like the famous iron hand for Goetz von Berlichingen, or a living limb j>(like in Moorcock's Corum Saga)? The latter. The limbs are described as movable; Arazbarn crushes trolls in his for example. p> I do think that adult Irondwarfs will have iron skeletons, etc., even j>I would make this later installation an enrichment in their bones rather I actually describe it as a sort of metal-ceramic composite when people come across a Dwarf skeleton. --------------------- From: 100102.3001@CompuServe.COM (Peter J. Whitelaw) Subject: Bits and pieces Message-ID: <940508125152_100102.3001_BHJ52-1@CompuServe.COM> Date: 8 May 94 12:51:53 GMT X-RQ-ID: 3945 What a great fortnight ! I received Codex1 and Strangers in Prax. Two RQ supplements in 14 days - I don't think I ever experienced that before, even in the heady days of the early eighties
. I would like to commend all those involved with both publications on their quality. Lots of useful stuff. RQ/Gloranthaphiles must buy these ! I though Stepehen Langmead's artwork in SiP was excellent. My only bitch about the supplement (thus far ;-)) is that bloody awful psychedelic border which clashes mightily with, IMHO, the pleasantly subdued tones of the other recent RQ publications. Strangers in Prax Errata v1.1 MOB, after a quick read-through of the Coders may I offer these as possible errata? p.25 "Maculus' Sorcery Regimen: Every Season Maculus casts a Damge Resistance Intensity 13, Duration 13 on each of the other Coders except Julan". However, the hit location diagram for Anderida shows no bracketed damage protection, just the 12 from her Cloak. Nose Ring's shows but 12 bracketed damage resistance, similarly Eslas'. Is this an oversight or am I unaware of some subtlety in the Sorcery rules? p.33 Eslas has "stiff leather" on her body and her Coder cloak is enchanted +8AP. But her hit location diagram shows 11 torso AP. Was it intended to be 10AP or is her "stiff" leather more like cuirboilli ? I would also like to apologise for such an embarrassing display of pedantry . My plea in mitigation is that whilst many of us here, I am sure, are big enough and fat enough to cope with these little inconsistencies that these, like the casting percentage errors, would probably frustrate players new to the system who might doubt their own understanding rather than the proffreaders' ;-). The Spoken Word. Previous to running Melisande's Hand I roughed a few notes out on this mysterious organisation. I don't know how much these dovetail with MOB's ideas but I would like to offer them in the hope that someone might pull them to pieces and offer something better. Cells of the Spoken Word are found both without and within the Lunar empire although their functions in these environments differ in purpose. Within the Empire the SW may operate openly and their members are noted for the mains gauche with which they are presented upon induction and which have come to be recognised a symbol of their station. Members of the SW are known as Agents and are drawn from amongst the ranks of the most devoted servants of the Red Goddess (initiates of high standing in a Lunar cult). Their progress in whichever branch of the Empire's religion from which they were drawn from is encouraged as long as this does not compromise the effort which is required by the Agent in meeting his SW duties. In general, the ecclesiastical hierarchy will not fail to grant dispensations to SW Agents that they meet these demands. Beyond the Glowline Agents often act as spies and recruiters and organisers of saboteurs and informants thereby building up networks . The chain of command is geographically hierarchical with one region being the responsibility of an Agent Commissioner known only to his Master agents who in turn are known only by their Cellmasters. All agents adopt the names of spirits and demons within Lunar mythology (eg. Karash'arll, Jajagapa [WF11]) when they join the SW. All skill limitations on active skills that may have been imposed on a PC are removed by virtue of membership of the SW as membership. I had thought that the SW might be treated as a Spirit Cult within the Lunar pantheon into which agents might be 'initiated' when they are selected to join but have not yet got around to working on this. Peter --------------------- From: email@example.com (Alex Ferguson) Subject: Anything but initiation. Message-ID: <9405081700.AA06160@keppel.dcs.gla.ac.uk> Date: 8 May 94 17:00:46 GMT X-RQ-ID: 3946 Sandy Petersen: > For that matter, there are red-skinned entities that come from > the Red Moon, but are not necessarily related to the Red Vadeli. There are? Who, humans, the fabled Moon Elves, or...? Bryan J. Maloney: > It is UNCERTAINTY that drives science. It is technocracy that posits that > our current knowledge can "solve everything". The Godlearners had an > _a priori_ "system" and they tried to shove all Glorantha into it. Oh? Why do you say that? On the basis of the scanty information on them, one could equally well assume their theories were arrived at experimentally. While they certainly made some attempts to change reality to fit some of their theories, this isn't Platonic thinking if you can actually _change_ reality, rather than just ignoring the discrepancies/fiddling the experiments. Jim DeGon: > Glorantha is absolutely, positively and with no doubt a Creationist > world with _no_ evolutionary history as we 20th century "humans" know > it. There is no point in classifying families in this manner. But there is "evolution" of a sort: just a very bizarre sort. The most significant factoid about mythical evolution in Glorantha is that is both convergent and divergent, which screws up a tree-shaped taxonomy. Dave Camoirano: > I believe that Gloranthan creatures defy terran classifications. Humans in > Glorantha are NOT homo sapiens. That is a terran classification that does not > apply here. Gloranthan scholars (you Lhankor Mhy know who you are) would most > likely use runes to classify various species. Yup, I think this is a good way too: after all, it reflect their mythic "descent". Alex.