From: RuneQuest-Request@Glorantha.Holland.Sun.COM (RQ Digest Maintainer)
To: RuneQuest@Glorantha.Holland.Sun.COM (Daily automated RQ-Digest)
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Subject: RuneQuest Daily, Thu, 12 May 1994, part 2
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From: SYS_RSH%PV0A@hobbes.cca.rockwell.com (Scott Haney, AFDS770 Functional Test X2069)
Subject: Horny Biting Trolls
Message-ID: <01HC7EQO5A9U9KM65G@hobbes.cca.rockwell.com>
Date: 11 May 94 02:51:24 GMT
X-RQ-ID: 3971
> In addition, I think female trolls have a biting reflex on reaching
>orgasm. I see this response being almost uncontrollable in Mistress
>race trolls, somewhat controllable in Dark trolls, and almost
>non-existant in trollkin.
Which is why trolls do it doggy-style, of course!
--Scott
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From: f6ri@midway.uchicago.edu (charles gregory fried)
Subject: GL "culta"
Message-ID:
Date: 11 May 94 13:51:43 GMT
X-RQ-ID: 3972
Greg Fried here.
Someone (sorry!) said that the God Learners serve as --
"a lesson for what happens if you try to manipulate myths scientistically
rather than from an involved cultural perspective."
I realize as well as anyone that G-L-bashing has become de rigeur since GS's
"turning", and, in general, I am in sympathy with this trend of "no
experimentation without humility and respect." However, I do also think that,
as reprehensible as it may be, the G-L way -- in of itself -- is ALSO "an
involved cultural perspective"! As such, the G-L way is/was as integral to
Glorantha as any other mythical/historical/cultural phenomenon. Sometimes, I
detect an attitude that, were it possible, we would expel the memory of
G-Lism as a residue of naive RQ2 barbarism. Ah, for a good memory eradication
ritual!
GF out.
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From: joe@sartar.toppoint.de (Joerg Baumgartner)
Subject: Sonic abilities
Message-ID:
Date: 11 May 94 15:03:31 GMT
X-RQ-ID: 3973
Alex said
>There's also the small detail that echos are ultrasonic, while most of
>spoken Darktongue is in the human audible range (sensible, otherwise
>speach would confuse, and be confused by, Darksense sounds). Nothing
>a bit of hardwired fast fourier transform to do frequency shifting
>wouldn't fix, I'm sure.
I think that this hardwired fast fourier transform does exist, even in
us sight-oriented humans. Any human who can hit a note can hum a tune
in a different octave than the original, provided hir vocal chords
allow to use the octave.
So I think it's perfectly sensible to have darkspeech contain
onomatopoeia from sub- and suprasonic echoes darksense provides.
--
-- Joerg Baumgartner joe@sartar.toppoint.de
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From: joe@sartar.toppoint.de (Joerg Baumgartner)
Subject: Aeolian initiates
Message-ID:
Date: 11 May 94 15:04:21 GMT
X-RQ-ID: 3974
Alex in X-RQ-ID: 3965
> Joerg, 3886.
>> Alex Ferguson in X-RQ-ID: 3865
>>> You mean his parents are weavers, or merchants? If the later, one presumes
>>> they're members of some Malkioni(sed) merchant class, likely including an
>>> element of Issaries worship.
His parents are crafters and behave like medieval guildsmen, i.e. proto-
capitalists, in that they try to aquire and hold privileges.
>> So is the
>> boy (now), at home. Additionally he took St. Dormal as a patron for his
>> sea voyages. I didn't charge extra POW sacrifice.
> Just how many cultic initiations does one get free on special offer with
> pantheon initiation currently, then?
Misunderstanding here. The young man in question is learning Aeolian
wizardry (elsewhere wrongly known as sorcery) as his magic, low magic only.
This low magic he learns from both the pantheistic offers of the Aeolian
church, the special low magic of St. Issaries, and the special low magic
of St Dormal. If he desires so, he may learn a bit divine magic - those
spells the deities involved grant to their associates, so he will get all
special Issaries spells handed out to associates, most associate spells
Aeolian Orlanth gets, all associate spells Issaries gets, and all
Dormal gets. All of these to initiate conditionsm, and he would have to
prove himself worthy for every single one of them ("heroquest for them").
So far he is content to stick with the wizardry spells.
>> Orlanth Maker: This sounds like a God Learner construct to me.
> It does? Is that a compliment, Joerg? ;-)
Take it as such, and line up for extermination, citizen (Paranoia mode off).
> I'm not sure where Orlanth
> Maker sprang from, but if a culture developes specialised tasks it didn't
> have a mythic rationale for, they have to be tacked on somewhere.
Usually by taking a cultural hero or a specialized deity into the pantheon.
See my disgression on saints below.
> Stick to the other suggestions, if you'd rather. Another would be to
> "reinterpret" a handmaiden of Ernalda as a child of E. and Orlanth.
A child of Ernalda - no doubt. As for Orlanth as father - I think he is
satisfied to claim most of her sons as his children.
>> I view Orlanth much as the tribal chief who has his
>> retainers for such tasks, and who plows mainly to please his wife, now and
>> then.
> More closet Yelmism. ;-) Orlanth is the god of Everyman, as well as King.
So is in a pure Grazer tribe (no adopted vendref) Yu-kargzant (not quite
Yelm, but close), and whatever the name in Pent may be, among the Pent
nomads. Possibly also in Southbank, Fronela.
(Note that adoption into the Yelm cult is possible: Light Priests may
become Yelm the Elder members, their children may become Yelm initiates.
How else did Southbank change from "Yelmalio" to Yelm?)
>> Being caring parents, they wanted him initiated where his family lives, and
>> the uncle could sponsor him mainly for St. Issaries at the local temple.
>> There is a small shrine to St. Dormal, but that is mainly there for
>> completeness' sake, and to honor the heroquester who overcame Zzabur's
>> curse, not the sailor.
> The Aeolisation of your example confuses things rather for me, but it seems
> fairly clear that in this context he could have been initiated to the
> appropriate god(s) without the (wretched ) excesses of pantheon
> initiation.
I didn't intend this as a component of our initiation debate, but I had
this as an actual problem to be solved in my campaign.
He is an Aeolian initiate, which means he may worship at any sacred place of
the church, plus he will experience somewhat friendly reception at Orlanthi
and Lightbringer temples, if only as lay member. He is an initiate of the
church, first of all. He has undergone special introduction (to avoid the
word initiation) into the secrets of St. Issaries and St. Dormal. These are
his patrons. If you want to press it into the one man - one cult scheme,
you might phrase it thus (set ick=100%):
"He is an initiate of the sorcery-using Issaries-subcult of Dormal."
This doesn't explain his Aeolian ties, and how he remains in the same
religion as his parents, and how he will share his afterlife with his
ancestors, though.
> Due to the presence of the word "Saint" in front of each of the deities'
> names, I'm having increasing difficulty in imagining a Heortlander, of a
> culture still described as "Orlanthi", pronouncing them with a straight
> face.
First of all, all Hendriki are Heortlander, but not all Heortlander are
Hendriki. The Volsaxi and Kitori certainly aren't. The fourth nation
(called "tribe" in the publications) of Heortland remains unnamed for now,
I'd appreciate input about where they live and how they are different
from the Hendriki and Volsaxi. I'd also appreciate further info on the
Kitori, Whitewall and the Volsaxi, and anything else already done about
Heortland.
The Hendriki aren't really Orlanthi. Neither are all Sartarites, not even
an Orlanthi-all (85%). Ducks, Telmori, Yelmalian Alda-churi tribes don't
worship Orlanth.
> Given that they believe them to be divine, and distinct from
> "ordinary" saints, why confuse them with the use of the title? Personally
> I believe that "even" the thoroughgoingly Malkionised henotheists of
> Ralios don't use the term in this way. Of course, where to draw the
> line between a manifest god and a (once) mortal Saint is another kettle
> of kumquats.
Now I fail to see the problem. Dormal is a deity, right? He was a human
once. Sartar is a deity. Arkat is one, he even has his own constellation.
Malkion was a deity. King Heort is a cult hero of Orlanth, and an
Aeolian Saint. So are Alakoring Dragonbreaker, Ingolf Dragonfriend, Harmast
Barefoot, and other worthies. Harst, Garzeen and Goldentongue were human,
enough so to wed human women.
Where do you draw the line between a worshipped hero and a deity?
The Aeolians have a simple definition of Saint: an entity worshipped
by the church and its members.
This includes Belintar, the Bretwalda (aka Pharaoh), whose
worship is state-requested, even though he still lives (in 1615, at least,
which is when my campaign sets off). This includes the Malkioni prophets,
Malkion and Hrestol, as cultural heroes. In case of Malkion also as divine
saint, acknowledging his family ties to Orlanth (as son of Aerlit Kolatsson
he is a grand-nephew of Orlanth). This includes the various sons of Orlanth,
and his acknowledged daughter (Vinga), commonly known as Thunder Brothers,
but individually known as well, at least a few of them (Vingkot, Drorgalar).
Are these deities, or are they human saints?
King Heort is an eighth generation descendant from Vingkot. Is he a human,
or a deity by birth? By achievement?
Sartar is not an Aeolian Saint, at least not in Heortland. He could become
one if refugees from Sartar who remain faithful to their founder's spirit
join the Aeolian creed.
Dormal is an Aeolian saint, because in the Hendriki ports his worship is
conducted by members of the church.
--
-- Joerg Baumgartner joe@sartar.toppoint.de
---------------------
From: joe@sartar.toppoint.de (Joerg Baumgartner)
Subject: Elmal's identities
Message-ID:
Date: 11 May 94 15:37:29 GMT
X-RQ-ID: 3976
Alex in X-RQ-ID: 3694
>> (I'd still like to know by which name these people [the Solar hill
>> barbarians throughout southern Peloria and northern Dragon Pass],
>> outside of Lunar influence, know their solar deity.)
> Yelmalio where Alda-Churi missionaries have got to them,
Not Alda-Churi. The thing started in southern Sartar, under Tarkalor's
reign, if I read the RQ-Con booklet correctly. The Lunars in Tarsh saw
their opportunity and spread the creed in their provinces, to further
weaken Theyalan elements. I doubt they reached Dykene, and they certainly
didn't reach the Arrolian territories before the Thawing of the Ban.
> Elmal in the die-hard areas, and Antirius within the area of
> Dara Happan influence.
Antirius? I've been swayed to Shargash as the likely deity of the
2nd Age Sun Dome Templars. Antirius was the sun within the Dara Happan
dome against the ice, and he died before the Dawn. The God of the Sun Dome
was the defender until the dawn, at least as I read his role from the
fragments of information available.
> Possibly some more we haven't heard of, even.
Those were the ones I asked for: die-hards in Aggar to Saird; Balazar;
Southbank in Fronela...
--
-- Joerg Baumgartner joe@sartar.toppoint.de
---------------------
From: joe@sartar.toppoint.de (Joerg Baumgartner)
Subject: Aldryami at war with each other
Message-ID:
Date: 11 May 94 15:37:48 GMT
X-RQ-ID: 3977
Sandy in X-RQ-ID 3597:
> At this point, I must again point out that I do not currently know of
> anywhere in Glorantha that two groups of Aldryami are fighting one
> another. There ought to be one, though. If only for my PCs to visit.
There is in Dorastor, between the Hellwood krjalki elves (formerly of Rist)
and the Poisonthorn elves. There may have been earlier struggles, apart from
Umathela possibly in the Elder Wilds (after the troll burnings), in the
rise of the house of Errinoru, and maybe at the end of 1st and 2nd Ages as
infights about illumination or draconic creed. Another world age approaches
its end, so you might want to create a new struggle?
--
-- Joerg Baumgartner joe@sartar.toppoint.de
---------------------
From: sandyp@idcube.idsoftware.com (Sandy Petersen)
Subject: howdy y'all
Message-ID: <9405111637.AA11796@idcube.idsoftware.com>
Date: 11 May 94 04:37:20 GMT
X-RQ-ID: 3978
Over the years, I've become very interested in exotic cooking (which
is a bit of a problem nowadays, as it's hard to find East Asian or
Pakistani ingredients in Dallas). I've also noticed that my players
often enjoy knowing what the devil they're eating as they wander
across Glorantha. So I've done a teensy bit of thinking about the
foodstuffs native in various parts of the world. I'd like to go
deeper into the subject than just remarking that walktapus makes a
tasty stew.
At least one book I've read states that spicy-hot dishes
appear in areas where there is a large peasant population with but a
single staple foodstuff. In an attempt to make their bland, dull diet
palatable, the oppressed farmers add chilis, paprika, or pepper to
their meal. When the rich folks finally get a hold of these
interesting spices and sauces, and add them to their own diet (which
includes meat), you end up with a cuisine. The pattern holds for
Mexico, India, and southeast Asia. In Europe, where peasants might
well starve, but would generally do so on a varied diet, composed of
fish, wheat, rye, millet, barley, cabbage, pork, etc. such spicy
dishes never evolved. Ditto for Japan.
I don't think it's just a climate thing (I've heard it opined
that "hot food is from hot lands"), as Persian & Greek food, for
instance, is generally mild-flavored.
It strikes me that Peloria fits the mold -- tons of poor
folks eating mainly corn. I suggest that native Pelorian cuisine,
while obviously highly varied, is generally much more "hot" than that
of Sartar. I imagine many Sartarites find Pelorian food physically
difficult to eat, in the same way that many Americans cannot handle
spicy Mexican.
Sartarites I suspect eat primarily wheat in the form of bread
(rather than frumenty, which I picture as more common in the Malkioni
lands), along with fruit (apple trees, frex), mutton, venison, beef,
and poultry, including (non-sapient) duck. For some reason I can't
picture potatoes among the Sartarites, I guess because it originated
in America rather than Europe. But I don't mind the equally
anachronistic maize in Peloria. Maybe that's because Peloria, for me,
has always had slight Mayan overtones.
I think that the New Lunar Cuisine is horribly adulterated,
with few "natural" flavors or unprocessed food. I also picture it as
fairly expensive, and not much eaten by the lower classes, except
maybe on a feast day. I don't think many folk can afford Sauteed
Newtling Tail on Wild Rice every day.
Cts?
Nicky Brooke foolishly asks:
>Why oh why should Lodril get Enchant Aluminium?
Because he's the God of Smithies, and can Enchant all metals.
Scott asks:
>I bear my ignorance to you all and admit that I have *NO*
>information on timinits and the like.
Timinits are "insect people", originally native to Jrustela
(and still there), and since spread to parts of Pamaltela (possibly
by the God Learners, but not for sure). All types of Timinits are
found in Jrustela, but that doesn't mean they're common even there.
There's (a little bit) more info on them in the Gloranthan Bestiary,
authored by one of the finest writers ever to condescend to dip his
pen in RQ lore.
I know of the following types:
Arachans: "spider people", sometimes called Spider Hsunchen
by the ignorant. There are real Spider Hsunchen, but these ain't
them. The Arachans are known to trade their silk for live food,
communicating with gestures. Spider Hsunchen are able to talk freely
to them. They have six arms (two legs) and use weapons poisoned by
their own saliva (they don't normally bite in combat, though).
Ephemerae: these are the neatest timinits for roleplaying
purposes, I think. I dare not say too much about them in this digest
because one of my players reads it, and I have plans for these guys
in an upcoming adventure.
Lucans: beetle-like things. Stupid, slow, occasionally
aggressive. Stats giv1en in GB. My players met these things in the
mountains of Jrustela and didn't like them a bit. For one thing,
Lucans are quite strong, and they were wielding four-handed swords,
which the party found quite annoying. They never did find out who was
providing the Lucans with metal weapons. It was probably the dwarfs,
utilizing this simple technique to make life more difficult for
wandering parties of humans in the rocky interior of their island.
Myrmidons: rather ant-like warriors. One of the most alien of
all the timinit types. Stats given in GB. My players met myrmidons
while exploring a God Learner ruin. The timinits had taken over the
place, and alternated between attacking ferociously and completely
ignoring the players. Sometimes one or two myrmidons would assault
the party as if berserk, while dozens of others quietly went around
their business in the background. In the end, the players decided not
to explore that particular ruin too deeply, though they _did_ find
some bizarre guardian-things that they later determined were actual,
physical God Learners, transmuted into new forms by the Gift Carriers
so that they could guard their secrets forever.
Vorioles: for the first years of their life, these are rather
worm-like entities, somewhat resembling a Dwerulan (see BG) or a
caterpillar-centaur, though heads are generally non-humanoid. They
are friendly enough to humans, though some are carnivorous or even
burrowing, and they are intelligent and even helpful at times. It is
not uncommon for a particular voriole to become quite attached to a
particular human or elf, and to become "best friends". I know there
is a large nest of these creatures near Tortrica, on the north coast
of Vralos. After a few years, however, they molt and move on to their
next stage -- the "flutterers", a rather moth- or butterfly-like
creature which is differently-colored and shaped for every individual
voriole. Presumably, the form of a flutterer is dependent on the
exact action taken by the voriole during its former life. The
flutterer can live for several years, too, but is non-sapient,
incapable of using magic, not even particularly susceptible to
training. It does seem to retain a tiny bit of memory from before. At
least, a flutterer will often make its home nearby the dwelling of
the voriole's former pal. Maybe this is why the vorioles so readily
make friendships -- in hopes that the longer-lived human or elf will
tend him during his flutterer years.
Others: these are the only timinits I've had occasion to
encounter in my own games, though I know there are aquatic ones and
some kind of mantis-folk. I've also heard of locust-folk in Jrustela
who seem to be extinct during most years, but once a century or so
appear out of nowhere and eat every green leaf on the hapless island
selected for their plague.