Bell Digest v940524p1

From: RuneQuest-Request@Glorantha.Holland.Sun.COM (RQ Digest Maintainer)
To: RuneQuest@Glorantha.Holland.Sun.COM (Daily automated RQ-Digest)
Reply-To: RuneQuest@Glorantha.Holland.Sun.COM (RuneQuest Daily)
Subject: RuneQuest Daily, Tue, 24 May 1994, part 1
Sender: Henk.Langeveld@Holland.Sun.COM
Content-Return: Prohibited
Precedence: junk

X-RQ-ID: Intro

This is the RuneQuest Daily Bulletin, a mailing list on
the subjects of Avalon Hill's RPG and Greg Stafford's 
world of Glorantha.  It is sent out once per day in digest
format.

More details on the RuneQuest Daily and Digest can be found
after the last message in this digest.


---------------------

From: gkca16@udcf.gla.ac.uk (S.Phillips)
Subject: "Nya!", "Gerrof!", "Ibbledy-bibbldey-wibbldey-dee etc."
Message-ID: <18089.199405231411@rockall.cent.gla.ac.uk>
Date: 23 May 94 16:11:54 GMT
X-RQ-ID: 4113

Hello from Sam (who should be studying - boo!)
----------------------------------------------

This Scholar vs Gamer really is a non argument. I hex whoever brought it up.
"Ibbledy-bibbldey-wibbldey-dee etc.."

It is really bringing out the worst in everyone. 
Myself included. (see the above and the below)
But if you *want* an argument...

For a start
>Well yes Nick, they do but I thought that this was the _RQ_Digest. ;-)

Hmm! This may be a bit obvious, but..

>X-RQ-ID: Intro 
>This is the RuneQuest Daily Bulletin, a mailing list on
>the subjects of Avalon Hill's RPG *and* Greg Stafford's 
>world of Glorantha.               ^^^^^

And would you have found it if it was the RQ&G_Digest or just the G_Digest?
"Nya!" to *you* for a start.

Ed Wallman:
>Do not brush off a request for useful discussion as a request for
>game mechanics discussion.  I like theories.  If they help me PLAY
>the game.  I like sociology/mythology talk.  If it helps me PLAY the
>game.  I do not think I could persuade anyone to PLAY the game by
>having them look only at scholarly discussions on Glorantha.

Then why don't you start some then - instead of getting at people about what 
*they* want to talk about. I will gladly add my 2p to any discussion. No, I
do not understand a great deal of what is discussed on the daily - but then
I do not begrudge anyone their freedom to discuss it. If you want rules
try the RQIV discussion - but boy! it's dry. Glorantha *is* RQ (IMHO). But
you don't have to agree with me to discuss stuff on this daily.

"Nya!" to you, too.

Alex:
>I've heard Sikhism described as a "combination" of Islam and Hinduism;
>result: all three putting bombs under the cars of the remaining two.
>(Yes, both ancedent and conclusion are grossly oversimplified here for
>purposes of snappy rhetoric.)
 
I've heard that the RQ Daily is a combination of RuneQuest and Glorantha.
Anyone know any good Mostali recipes?

"Nya!" to you, just because you use words like "ancedent" and because
though you are at least 7ft tall - I still have your TotRM so you *have* to
keep me alive (for now).

Devin:
> While a good literary creation does have to possess internal consistency, it
> does not have to provide, in full view of the public, a formulised mechanism
> for its inner workings. 
 
I don't agree with this, either. I think Glorantha is stronger for it's
inconsistency. As a gamer that is. Real life is inconsistent. The very fact
that there is so much to argue about is Glorantha's strength. Glorantha is
RQ's strength. Glorantha owes a hugh debt to RQ - this is true. But RQ is
just a set of rules without Glorantha. Without the rules Glorantha is still
a fantastic place to game in..

> As long as the scholars continue to "run the show", I feel that Glorantha
> will likely become a wonderful literary creation (and fiction should be
> published) but will die as a game.

What a load of Gbaji.  What scholars? What show? If you don't like what is going
on get off yer arse and do something. Stop whingeing. Avalon Hill run the show.
And they are about as scholarly and have about as much respect for Glorantha
as, as, ..., well I don't want to be *too* rude. The "scholars" that you are
so maligning are the hard working RQ *&* Glorantha lovers who have together
created the RQ renaissance that we are both enjoying. TotRM *is* scholarly, yup,
but in a gaming context. Everyone on this list treats Glorantha as a great place
to vist - not just a place to read about. Try asking Nick, Sandy, MOB, David
Hall, David Dunham, Joerg, etc.. about their games. They will enthuse and enlighten and exite. Try asking them for ideas for your game. Go on - try it. I for 
one am totaly endebted to these and the countless others who have helped me out
with ideas, answers and just good old good vibes. This list is open to anyone
who can access the appropriate technology. If people aren't discussing what
you want then why not start a conversation to your liking and see who replies.

"Nya!" to you all.

_______________one cold bath later_____________________

Cullen O'Neill: (Godlearner in disguise)

>Yes acknowledging O.R. is a requirment to be accepted but being
>an initiate is another level altogether.
 
Nope. I don't agree with this. Many people are "accepted" who hold other views.
Nobody could be initiated without accepting it. Not in my Sartar, anyway.

>Well, I don't see this.  A lay member of Ernalda is not some
>weirdo unless she comes from Esrolia or something, and even then
>you've got to tolerate her.

Exactly *my* point.

The beautiful, wonderful, bountiful Earth Priestess we *all* love and respect.
She in turn loves and respects Orlanth Rex, Ernalda's husband, in the same
way that Ernalda the Queen loves and respects her husband the King. And she
will obey him in much the same way as any Sartarian wife obeys her husband.
(With a row or a grin or a slap or a meek yes or a blantant "bugger off" -
depending on what is asked). Well it is a *stormy* relationship. But, she
accepts that Orlanth *is* King. This doesn't mean he will always get his own 
way though. Don't forget - at the end of the day Ernalda owns the land on which
the longhouse is built. All Orlanth is a bad case of wind. 

The Esrolian Ernaldan is not kin so she is a weirdo. She probably thinks
that Ernalda is the king of gods and Orlanth is her wife. Now that's not on -
is it? I mean, we have to respect her but we don't have to agree with (or even 
like) her. She would be better off going back to Esrolia where the men have no 
passion. This argument would be just (well almost) as likely to come from a
female Orlanthi as a male (by "female Orlanthi" I almost definitely mean
"Ernaldan"). The same argument goes for the troll..
 
>"Storm Bull and Zorak Zoran saved each other's lives in battle
>against chaos in the Great Darkness, thus they are blood brothers
>and so each gave a spell to the other as a mark of this."

I know this, you know this, the trolls know this. They still eat sartarian 
babies, though. Ask the troll - he won't deny it.

>If I had
>perfect players perhaps I could make up the rules as I deepened my
>understanding, I don't... Do you?

What, have perfect players? Another Godlearner construct. Most of them turn up
for games. Most of them bring beer. Half of them a women. All of them love most
of Glorantha. All of them despise me most of the time.

As near as perfect as you can get I would say. Unless you want to play with yourself. Ooeer missus! Fnarr!

I tend to use no set rules and make them up as *my* confusion deepens.

>Well calling this relationship Association is a bit GLish, you
>might prefer to say:
> 
>"Orlanth and Ernalda married and thus the two of them have spells
>from one another.  Orlanth and Urox are kin and thus ..."
> 
>But it amounts to the same thing.
 ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
Godlearners have been burned for less.

>I think a good layman can go to heaven too, you don't need to be an
>acolyte or anything.
 
I have heard that sorcerers use uninitiated corpses to make flying potions with.
Or was that un-baptised babies..

Cullen & Joerg:
J>And I think that there won't be any myths about Orlanth going to
J>the lavatory, except if Eurmal was involved.

I would heartily disagree with this. He is the god of wind after all.
It is only Sun-worshippers and other tight-arsers who have a hang-up in this
department. I'm sure there is one about Yinkin stealing the bog-roll.

C>> Does this last bit mean that lay worshippers can't worship?
J>
J>They can, but ineffectively so. Their attendance certainly serves the
 
>Certainly the initiate is more effective, but he's special.

I tend to think of the Lay worshipper as someone who is along for the party.
And I also think that this sort of unpious behaviour is seen by many cults as a 
good way to raise funds and so most would probably throw a party. Storm bull
holy days are legendary all across Glorantha. Even Lunars have been known to 
celebrate them. Did the Lunar authorities aid in getting a Storm Kahn for 
Boldhome so the people could have their party? I'm sure they would have if they
could. Say what you want about the Lunars - they are never ones to poop a good
party. It is only Sun-worshippers and other tight-arsers who have a hang-up in 
this department.

>J> look at Bolthor Hairybreeks, King of the Bilin
> 
>J>I see his afterlife as a member of Orlanth's Stead, where all of these
>J>deities dwell.
> 
>Interesting idea!  But if he's an associate of all these gods, where
>does he fit into the clan.  If he's an initiate of just one he's an part
>of that god's family.
 
But he is already part of that god's family. He is in Orlanth's Staed and so
are all the other deities who are Orlanth's kin. Orlanth sits on the throne,
Ernalda at his side and all his kin around him. They are drinking and laughing
and having a good time..

>C>> Well I'd agree that the default if you're not an initiate of another
>C>> cult is 'act like Orlanth', but if you are a trickster would you sti
>C>> act like Orlanth?  How about if you're a Storm Bull?  
>C>> So basically Orlanth would have almost all the people as lay members
>J>
>J>As associates, at least. As a Storm Bull, you'd still reply to clan
>J>structure, clan laws etc. like all Orlanthi. You're set apart as speci
>J>hirdman, but while your drunkenness, upsetting behaviour and wanton
>J>cruelty is recognized, in all other regards you are expected to func
>J>as a member of the society laid out by Orlanth.
> 
>NO!  Storm Bulls act like Urox!  They don't function as normal
>members of society.

I totally disagree with this, too. Orlanth loves Urox and Eurmal. They are both
kin and as such are part of society. They may not always obey Orlanth, but he 
tolerates them and protects them from the rath of others. Yes, a Stormbuller
would act like Orlanth most of the time - same goes for the Eurmal. What they
do differently from Orlanth does not prevent them being  Orlanthi. Everyone
has a job to do. Why should a beserker or a fool be any less an Orlanthi than
a plowman or a healer? Urox sits beside Orlanth at the dinner table. Eurmal
makes him laugh. They are both welcome when the dinner bell goes and they both
attend. Urox and Eurmal are both fully functional member of Orlanth's Tula.

Alex:
>I thought we were talking about the worship of the _townspeople_?  Y'know,
>these people who keep forgetting that Voriof is the God of sheep.
 
What? They don't have sheep in towns? What do they eat? What do they drink?
What do they wear? What do they use the public grazing ground for?
Thank Orlanth I was born a hill-dweller.

>It bothers me that Voriof seems
>to me to be first a foremost a god of sheep, and only secondly and _by_
>_association_ of boys, that you seem keen to throw out the first in favour
>of a version of the second run riot.
 
Why? I have a theory that Yinkin may well be a big god among Orlanthi boys.
He is after all the god of Hide & Seek and climbing trees. And who is a boy's
best freind? Why his cat of course.. Why worship sheep!?

All IMHO. And with a generous dollup of ;?)..
(I am after all a Yinkin in Telmori's boots.)

Keep lovin' RuneQuest, you lovely people..

Sam. x
Not Scotland but Sartar.


--------------------------------------------------------------------
And now a bonus page of RQ light bulb jokes.. (hooray!)

Q: How many Broos does it take to change a light Bulb.
A: 67 at the last count and they're still at it. Oops! there goes another one.

Q: How many Trolls does it take to change a light bulb.
A: Touch that and I'll smash you, too.

Q: How many sorcerers does it take to change a light bulb?
A: What into?

Q: How many Orlanthi does it take to change a light bulb?
A: We must wait for the wind to change first.

Q: How many Chalana Arroy does it take to change a light bulb?
A: Don't bother me now, we are very understaffed..

Q: How many Dwarves does it take to change a light bulb?
A: I'll tell you once we have lowered this roof..

Q: How many elves does it take to change a light bulb?
A: Change?.. I thought you said grow. Still, we've a fine crop now.

Q: How many herdmen does it take to change a lightbulb? (I)
A: As many as you want - I've got no thumbs.

Q: How many herdmen does it take to change a lightbulb? (II)
A: Hmm! Five, but I'm robbing my own mother to give you this deal.

Q: How many Eurmals does it take to change a light bulb?
A: One too many, no doubt.

Q: How many Llankhor Mhy does it take to change a light bulb?
A: Interesting question, young man. I trust I can leave it up to you to
   research this fully. I Expect a detailed report by Clayday. 

Q: How many ducks does it take to change a light bulb? (I)
A: Change it yurthelf thcumfathe, I'm offthki!

Q: How many ducks does it take to change a light bulb? (II)
A: (climbs into fridge). Well, what do you know. The little light
   doeth thtay on!

Q: How many Humakti does it take to change a lightbulb? (I)
A: Do you want the truth, or just an estimate?

Q: How many Humakti does it take to change a lightbulb? (II)
A: One. (pause). Aaargh! Sever spirit!..

Q: How many Donandans does it take to change a light bulb? (I)
A: It depends on the height of the ceiling.

Q: How many Donandans does it take to change a light bulb? (II)
A: With or without a trampoline?

Q: How many Gbaji does it take to change a light bulb?
A: How many Gbaji does it take to change a light bulb?

Q: How many Greg's does it take to change a light bulb?
A: One, but how often does Greg need to change the goddam light bulb?

Q: How many Avalon Hill employees does it take to change a light bulb?
A: What, you don't like the dark?

Q: How many God Learners does it take to change a light bulb.
A: The light bulb hasn't been invented yet. It is 9th age Yelmic construct.

-----------------------
Q: Anyone for any more?
A: Gerrof!

ok..

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From: MOBTOTRM@vaxc.cc.monash.edu.au
Subject: I am not the Messiah!
Message-ID: <01HCORBSVGJ68ZGYAK@vaxc.cc.monash.edu.au>
Date: 24 May 94 04:00:35 GMT
X-RQ-ID: 4110

G'day,

Given the recent heated debate concerning Malkionism, trinities, Judaism, 
Christianity, Islam, and the like, this "Note from Nochet" by Mick Rowe
might be of interest!

(XXIX.29 - 2546.a[1.3]):
During the last year I have travelled extensively through the forests of 
Western Maniria collecting and cataloguing samples of wild herbs.  My 
most bizarre find though had nothing to do with woodland plants.  Near 
the edge of the great Arstola forest I found a small community of friendly 
and hospitable farmers.  These people were refugees from the country of 
Ramalia.  They offered me free food and shelter during my time with them, 
whilst I carried out my research in the fringes of the Arstola.  What 
is remarkable about these villagers is that they worship an unborn god, 
whom the call "the messiah".  They believe that on the day he is born, 
the heavens will signal his coming by the appearance of a new star.  Part 
of their ideology decrees that they should not use magic, and that if they 
have faith in their god magic cannot affect them.  This I discovered to be 
true one day. I tried to heal a girl of the settlement who had injured her 
arm in a fall.  Although she said it was no use - her lord, the messiah, 
would watch over her arm so that it would heal naturally - I was compelled 
to try to help her, and almost passed out after repeatedly casting my 
healing magic.  Any disciple of this cult can be recognized by the rune 
they wear on their clothes and jewellery.  It looks like three entwined 
law runes, which symbolizes the new star.  
Shamash Greenhand, wild sage.


Cheers

MOB

---------------------

From: DevinC@aol.com
Subject: Re: RuneQuest Daily, Mon, 23 May 1994, part 1
Message-ID: <9405230817.tn388621@aol.com>
Date: 23 May 94 12:17:22 GMT
X-RQ-ID: 4111

Devin Cutler here:

Sandy asks Nick:

"What kind of campaign are you currently running, Nick? I  
don't mean this as a challenge. I'm curious if you prefer to put the  
players into a small local area (like Pavis or the Grazelands, say)  
and have them caught up in the politics and activities of that tiny  
microcosm. "

I would also be curious as to what kinds of compaigns the "scholars" are
running. My hunch is that they do tend to be microcosmic, very unheroic (i.e.
concerned with day-to-day-living), and tend to be short-lived (i.e. they run
a bunch of short term regional campaigns as opposed to a long-lived and/or
heroic/world-spanning campaign). Am I right or wrong?

BTW, the long-term (8.5 years) RQ campaign that I am runnign is decidedly
heroic and world-spanning. No, I don't go in for elves and trolls travelling
together as was mentioned in a recent post. All of my PC's are humans, and
all are either Yelmalios (probably Elmals if I went with the switch),
Odaylans, or Orlanth worshippers (oops, sorry we have a Donandarian and a
Chalanna Arooy as well). Seems compatible to me.

In any case, this group (and retired/dead ex-members) have travelled to Old
Trade, have snuck a peek at the Blue Book of Zzabur, have rediscovered Old
Brithos, have fought on the Cradle, have taken part in the liberation of
Boldhome and the imprisonment of the Red Emperor, founded a small kingdom in
Ralios, rescued another kingdom near Pavis, found and returned Balastor's
Axe, and discovered the secret of Hrelar Amali.

The only places they haven't really been are Kralorela and Pamaltela.

I don't really prefer one type of campaign (Heroic vs non-Heroic) over
another, can am adept at running either. However, I noticed, when I first
started playing and then running RQ1 and RQ2 that most RQ campaigns tended to
be non-heroic. This kind of makes sense for a system where combat is so
deadly and magic so personal. Never one to run from a challenge, however, I
wanted to see if RQ can be run in a heroic vein. I can say that it can, from
personal experience.

I woudl be interested in hearing if anyone else runs a heroic campaign with
RQ in general or Glorantha in specific.

Martin Crim writes:

"What kind of campaign are you currently running, Nick? I  
don't mean this as a challenge. I'm curious if you prefer to put the  
players into a small local area (like Pavis or the Grazelands, say)  
and have them caught up in the politics and activities of that tiny  
microcosm. "

And then gives us a nice plunder item (thanks Martin!).

I too would like to see a little more "useful" gaming info along the lines of
what David Dunham and Martin have just presented. No, I don't mean the entire
Daily should be given over to such, but I really enjoy such things.

Most of us are really strapped for the kind of time it takes to put together
a good campaign, and with the supplements for RQ coming out at a dribble,
using the Daily as an interchange for gaming material would be a nice adjunct
to TOTRM and Codex (and RQ Adventures, if that's still up and running).

For my part, I will be gathering stuff that I've accumulated for my campaign
and post it here.

David Dunham writes"We always spent a lot of time training. You can bring
some element of play
into this unplayed time by using the catchup tables in RQ Cities (those are
my tables, even if Midkemia forgot to give me credit)."

Really? I like this supplement a lot, and use it for PC's who retire out of
the campaign for a while (due to real life considerations)

"I see nothing wrong with abstracting large amounts of time and just playing
out the interesting bits."

Ditto. One can only roleplay a trip to the city market and weekly worship
ceremonies so often before tedium reigns.

Also, Gary from Nippon gives us a plea to avoid over equating Glorantha with
Earth (here! here!) and then gives a nice example of how a society in
Glorantha can be rationalized and worked out using the Gloranthan information
at hand without a lot of shoving of earth analogues into a Glroanthan
setting. I encourage more of this type of thought.

Cullen titles a Subject line of a posting "Subject: Initiation round 5"

You left out a zero. Don't you mean round 50 -)

Regards,

Devin Cutler
devinc@aol.com