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Subject: RuneQuest Daily, Wed, 01 Jun 1994, part 4
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From: MILLERL@wharton.upenn.edu (Loren J. Miller)
Subject: various topics
Message-ID: <01HCZZ2O69TE8WWJYU@wharton.upenn.edu>
Date: 31 May 94 13:51:38 GMT
X-RQ-ID: 4285
Lots of brilliant stuff over the weekend. Positively mind-boggling,
actually. Just a few comments then I'll go back into the magistery and
finish my Carmanian research.
1. Yes, the Carmanian stuff is slowly being prepared for release to
all you yokels in the less fortunate regions of the Lunar Empire's
influence. :-) For a long time it was just sitting there. Now that
we've been playing with it I think we know enough to loose it on you.
2. I loooooved the Morocanth's Thumbs thing-a-quest, Martin, but you
wimped out at the end. The human's thumbs simply have to be the stakes
of the bet. When the human loses the victorious Morocanth bites off
the loser's thumbs and sticks them on his own paws, where they
instantly fuse to the morocanth's flesh. A winning human would receive
a herdman or three. Actually this brings up a great idea for a
scenario starring an unpopular clanmember. Your cousin Wassau has been
turned into a herdman! Go and get him back from the Morocanth! I hear
they have some sort of Contest that you can participate in and if you
win it you can get Wassau back no problem, and maybe a nice looking
slave girl for yourself.
3. Castrated Humakti from Carmania? WOW! What an insight! Who else
could guard the haram like a Humakti Eunuch? And Eunuch even rhymes
with Duck! Almost, that is.
whoah,
+++++++++++++++++++++++23
Loren Miller internet: MILLERL@wharton.upenn.edu
"Enough sound bites. Let's get to work." -- Ross Perot sound bite
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From: Argrath@aol.com
Subject: Virtues & Alynxes + Pilgrims
Message-ID: <9405312042.tn668655@aol.com>
Date: 1 Jun 94 00:42:01 GMT
X-RQ-ID: 4286
Bernt--
I have loads of stuff on pilgrimage, which I wrote when Mike
thought AH would be interested in a Sacred Quests book (practice
heroquests). Rather than summarize 120k of material, let me just
say that I think it obvious that people (humans and others)
engage in pilgrimages. The benefits vary, depending on piety and
the difficulty and/or importance of the pilgrimage.
Gary--
That was me, asking about forms of address. I was thinking
particularly of Japanese and Korean, but hoping someone could
offer some examples from elsewhere, too. In Korean, up until the
1950's, there was "high" and "low" speech, with the latter being
extremely brusque. When my parents learned the language in 1953-
54, they were told not to use low speech with anyone, but it was
still in common usage with servants, etc. But if you have more,
I for one am interested.
Do Japanese RQers play Land of Ninja? Or what?
Re: Malkioni caste virtues
A complete list might look like the following (using mostly
Pendragon traits and passions):
peasant: loyalty [lord]; energetic (i.e., hard working),
forgiving, modest, trusting
knight: loyalty [lord], honor; valorous, honest, energetic
wizard: loyalty [lord]; pious, temperate, energetic, generous
(i.e., oriented toward service to the community)
lord: loyalty [vassals, superior lord]; just, prudent
It might be fun to throw chastity into the mix in some times and
places.
Re: Joerg's comments on my take on immanence & transcendence
Yes, an Orlanthi all (85%) of the named sects have those
traits. There are some thinkers in every sect who take a
different view. There are also people who are as far out in
their own (Gloranthan) way as St. Francis or the Sufis.
Re: Alynxes
Orlanth's kinship with Yinkin means that cats are part of
the divine landscape for Orlanthi. This has some tremendous
benefits for the culture. A truly domesticated wildcat is of
great use in hunting by ambush, since a wild lynx (about twice
the size of a housecat) can take down a mature deer. (Source: C.
Savage, Wild Cats, Sierra Club Books 1993.) House cats are
useful to agriculturalists in keeping down rodent and insect
populations. Despite the mythical link, however, Orlanthi have
to keep dogs for herding. The reason for this is expressed in
the tale which Nick posted previously (an improved version of the
tale which I sent him some weeks ago).
Alynx Breeds:
Hunting alynxes come in several breeds, which specialize in
different prey. Hunting breeds are common only in their home
regions and nearby. A hunter keeps close to his cat, both to
support it in the kill and because cats will cache the entire
kill and eat it over a couple of days unless the hunter takes it
away.
The Oxhead breed of Talastar is the largest, and hunts deer,
pigs, and sable. It ranges in size from forty-five to fifty
kilos (SIZ 7-8). One can train it to attack people, but it must
be kept chained or penned up after that.
The River Cat breed of the Tanier River region is almost as
large (around forty-five kilos; SIZ 7), and hunts deer, young
elk, ponies, otters, and alligators. In the upper regions of the
river, they also take dinosaur eggs.
Somewhat smaller are the Forest Cat native to Heortland and
the Bear Cat of eastern Fronela (about forty kilos or SIZ 6),
which hunt small deer, hedgehogs, porcupines, and other forest
creatures.
Most Orlanthi regions have a hunting cat breed in the thirty
to thirty-five kilo range (SIZ 5). These take rabbits, small
species of antelope, rubble runners, and other prey in the SIZ 3-
18 range, including the occasional deer. A common (but
misleading) term for these is bobcat.
Smaller cats are not often used for hunting, but some places
have a twenty-kilo breed used to catch birds, rabbits, and
squirrels. Hunters sometimes turn such cats out to hunt and drag
their kills home, thus sparing the hunter the effort of going out
into the woods.
Cats in the SIZ 1-4 range (5 to 23 kilos) usually serve to
kill pests, such as rats, mice, and crows. The smaller sizes are
useful to control insect populations, especially grasshoppers and
locusts.
A well-stocked Orlanthi farm has a family of about a dozen
small cats (SIZ 1-3) for pest control, a couple of bobcats, and a
breeding pair of larger cats for hunting. The kittens of the
latter are traded, one kitten of good lineage often bringing an
ox or pony in trade.
The statistics and description in Gloranthan Bestiary are
woefully incorrect. The larger breeds, which hunt deer, have a
STR in the 2D6+10 range. Smaller specimens have a STR of 2D6 +
SIZ +2. None of them ever have a damage penalty.
Like most cats, shadow cats take prey which is larger than
themselves. They hunt by ambush, killing with a bite to the
neck. The cat aims the blow for the neck if it possibly can, and
when it hits it hangs on, continuing to do damage, until the prey
succumbs. The cat rakes only when trying to get away. When it
is trying to kill prey, it needs to use its hind paws to stay
upright. If the bite to the neck does not kill immediately, the
cat must hang on and apply its weight to force the prey down.
Other skills of shadow cats include: Climb 95+18, Jump
80+18, Swim 40+18, Listen 70+2, Scan 50+2, Smell 90+2.
Random note: Mongols used Golden Eagles to hunt wolves, and
the weight to strength ratio of raptors is much higher than
represented in the RQ rules. Change the Hawk stats on page 24 of
the RQ Creatures Book to STR 2D6+2 for hawks and STR 2D6+5 for
eagles.
Re: dumb weapon skills
Thrown mace. Need I say more?
Re: methods of execution
I see the Ralians preferring crushing with rocks to the
Seshnelan and Fronelan impalement. Thus, you get these cairns
all over the place...
Re: Praxian (and other) religious virtues
Here, to go with the Malkioni virtues/tendencies by caste
(above), are some other cultural virtues (85% application at
most):
Kralorelan: Chaste, Energetic, Modest, Temperate
Hsunchen: Generous, Honest, Trusting, Valorous
Lunar: Lustful, Energetic, Cruel, Proud, Temperate
Orlanthi: Generous, Just, Proud, Valorous, Honorable
Praxian: Generous, Deceitful, Arbitrary, Proud, Valorous
Dara Happan: Chaste, Honest, Just, Valorous
Ramalian: Vengeful, Deceitful, Arbitrary, Cruel, Suspicious
--Martin
---------------------
From: DevinC@aol.com
Subject: Re: RuneQuest Daily, Sat, 28 May 1994, part 3
Message-ID: <9405312116.tn670450@aol.com>
Date: 1 Jun 94 01:16:38 GMT
X-RQ-ID: 4287
Devin Cutler here:
Loren writes:
"Sorry, I don't use third-party magic items unless they come with a
usable story attached. I suspect that many other readers felt
similarly."
Hmmm. What do you mean exactly by a story? I gave background and origin. Does
this mean you do not use or like Plunder?
"I find this irritating, mainly because I thought I was done being
"quested" and "geased" into the DM's fragile plotline when I stopped
playing AD&D. Why don't you use a word like "forced" or "impelled"
instead? Not only is this use of "geas" a D&Dism, but it also confuses
things with Humakti-style Geasa."
Ooops, I used a D&Dism! Shall I be castrated or quartered (or both)?-)
For the record, I did not force them to divulge the Mostali caravan routes to
the Uz. This they did inadvertantly but stupidly. Having done this, they then
decided to travel to Nidan and ask the Mostali there for forgiveness (as they
had reason to use the High Llama Pass and Bad Deal).
Well, I for one did not see the Mostali supervisor (or whatever) syaing to
them "oh well, what's done is done", but I didn't want to kill them outright
(although certainly that would be a very Mostali thing to do ... "What, you
humans say that you caused the elimination of our last caravan? You humans
are defective and harmful and are hereby ended!"), so this seemed
appropriate.
So, my plotline was not "fragile", and the players were not being railroaded
into a scenario. They messed up and, instead of slaying them outright, I got
a night's adventure out of the consequences.
As regards the wording, a geas is a geas, and they were certainly under a
compulsion, so my use of the term is justified.
Nick writes:
"Where in Glorantha would Humakti eunuchs come from? "
Possibly Esrolia?
"> I do not gainsay Nick's gaming contributions. I thought his scenario in
> TOTRM 11 (I hope I got the issue # right) was great!
Not mine, alas. But thanks, anyway! "
Well Nick, I'm at work, and I KNOW that you wrote a scenario I really liked
and that it was Sea/God Learner oriented, so maybe change TOTRM to #10 and I
stand corrected.
The Close Little Firend of Elvis writes:
"On the back of the pink Gloranthan Player (?) Book is a picture of a
village dwarfed by a dragon's head. I heard the name of the village
somehwere, but I do not remember it."
I don't know the official name of the village, but isn't it in Ormsgone
Valley or something like that (or is that in Sartar)?
" I cannot imagine there
NOT being a cult dedicated to a thing laying a 100 m away with one foot in
the infinity. Seers would probably prophesy based on its breathing
patterns and digestion noises. Etc. Etc. Etc."
I wrote a scenario around this city wherein the people did worship the nearby
True Dragon and did set up a cult. I placed the village far enough away,
however, that when the Dragon arose to fight in the Lunar/Sartar battles, the
village was spared. Now, the Dragon cult prays that they will be worthy to
have the Dragon return. They blame all sorts of things like crop failures and
stillbirths on the absence of the Dragon, and blame all sorts of unpious
people and actions for the lack of its return.
"What part of Glorantha is (almost any of) modern-day earth a fruitful
comparison for?"
OK, scratch my use of "modern-day" and replace with "1st century AD". I used
modern-day in order to relate to my own day-to-day experiences (as well as to
attempt to relate to yours).
"And if they believed they saw such activity, as many of them clearly did,
ditto."
Did they? And I mean did the majority of them witness weekly phsyically
manifest miracles on a continual basis. What's more, did they partake of such
miraculous power themselves (i.e. cast divine or spirit magics)? Saying there
were people in pre-Renaissance times who truly believed in miracles is still
different from the Gloranthan religious experience. A level of universality,
repeatedness, and self experience is lacking in any Terran equivalent.
"This sort of deduction is often aided by thoughts such as "We're in the
obvious "hook" part of the scenario, so..." Maybe you just have keen
players."
Maybe so. I would be interested to hear if anyone else running Gaumata's
vision didn't suspect chaos infestation of a village right away? Also, did
the author mean for that to be obscure or obvious?
"Reliable in what way? Reliable as in "gives an answer which can be
interpreted as indicating whether to accept the candidate", or reliable as
in "gives a readout on his relevant skill numbers, moral values, personal
qualities, and hidden motivations"? Given the number of ogres floating round
in "legitimate" cults, it's not what _I'd_ call reliable."
The first instance of course. I was always under the impression that these
Chaos infiltrators used Divination Block or became Lay Members only.
Chris Cooke writes:
"I am perhaps backwards? I am and always have been primarily a ref.
I played a couple times in our spinoff but it didn't workout so well. I
found
the new ref always asking for my help until I was basicly running the spinoff
too."
I also primarily ref...mainly because I seem to be good at it (or so my
players tell me-).
Regards,
Devin Cutler
devinc@aol.com
---------------------
From: ddunham@radiomail.net (David Dunham)
Subject: Gata; virtues
Message-ID: <199406010408.AA25510@radiomail.net>
Date: 1 Jun 94 04:08:34 GMT
X-RQ-ID: 4288
Greg Fried said
>It seems to be the case that the goddess Gata is so primal
>a deity that she rarely receives worship. However, in my campaign, there is
>indeed a Gata priestess (I could explain, but I don't think it necessary).
>Question is, what kind of benefits would she give? Obviously, some elemental
>powers over Earth. But what else? I had thought the abiltity to "birth"
>other Earth goddesses -- by which I mean that a Gata priestess might be able
>to induct worshipers into Earth cults, and, indeed, to consacrate temples to
>such deities. In other words, a Gata priestess would be a kind of shaman to
>Earth gods
I don't see Gata as literally shamanic, but having her as meta-Earth
goddess makes sense. A priestess might be able to cast the ceremony spells
of Earth cults, and might herself act as a temple to an Earth priestess
(e.g. she would enable the Earth priestess to renew divine spells).
Alternately, she might act as Earth Witch in heroquests, creating magic
items to give to worthy questers.
Really primal deities are hard to reach and don't have many direct benefits.
Nick Brooke said
>Harmast Barefoot was from the Alynx clan. Probably.
All we know is that Harmast was in the Berenneth tribe. From what do you
extrapolate his alynx-hood?
Peter J. Whitelaw asked
>What Virtues do PenDragon GMs out there assign to the following Gods:
>Waha - (Energetic, Generous, Just, Proud, Valorous ?)
>Daka Fal - (Honest, Just, Proud, Pious, Prudent ?)
I gave Waha Just, Valorous, Proud, Energetic, Lustful. (Right now I'm not
sure why Lustful -- Generous certainly fits a chieftan god.)
Your Daka Fal virtues are reasonable, though I'm not sure about Honest
(maybe Trusting, since Ancestor Knows Best?). Although Daka Fal is
shamanistic, and shamans themselves may not follow the same rules for
virtues.
For Praxian completeness:
Eiritha: Generous, Energetic, Forgiving, Honest, Merciful
Storm Bull: Proud, Arbitrary, Indulgent, Suspicious, Valorous
I haven't yet read the non-Gloranthan background you posted, but it's
always nice to have cultures to borrow from (one of my campaigns is
non-Gloranthan).
---------------------
From: edo2877@usl.edu (Ott Edward D)
Subject: champions of garhound
Message-ID: <199405311732.AA00704@c35.ucs.usl.edu>
Date: 31 May 94 07:32:24 GMT
X-RQ-ID: 4289
i have an ongoing campaign where the PC s are working for duke Raus they recently
went with the duke to the garhound competion in the sun county competion. the
only "men" of the dukes who fit the written requierments were the non humans.
a baboon, a duck and a troll. my wife wanted to compete but both of her
characters are female. well i let them compete and the baboon ended up winning
any body have a good idea of what the garhound reaction should be.
boomshanka
edward
Storm Kahns do it in the rain
---------------------
From: lindsell@rschp1.anu.edu.au (Graeme Lindsell)
Subject: Malkionism and Execution
Message-ID: <9406010505.AA00532@Sun.COM>
Date: 1 Jun 94 20:03:44 GMT
X-RQ-ID: 4290
Nick Brooke writes:
[re: Tsarist Safelster]
>If you want "bad guy" Orlanthi nearer to home, look at what the Wenelians
>are doing to Esrolia. The bastards.
I don't want "bad guy" Orlanthi (plenty of those in Dragon Pass IMO),
I want "good guy" Malkionists, ie some group that don't harshly oppress
the lower classes and strangers (the Brithini, Seshnelans and the Jonateli
do that admirably), Tap, and aren't raving fanatics like the Loskalmi.
That really just leaves the Carmanians and the Salfestans of Ralios as the
only major group of Malkioni in Genertela. Are the Carmanians the people
I'm looking for?
While I do like the original idea of an oppressive culture doing it's best
to keep out the nomads and keep in the peasants, putting it in Salfester
removes the last lot of Malkioni. I'm still more inclined to put it in the
Redlands: makes a shock for Lunar characters to find how the freedom of
the Lunar way disappears when they approach the Pentans.
Paul asks Nick re: Crucfixion (out the door, line on the left, one cross...)
>> Nick, where did the Lunars pick up this charming custom [crucifixion]?
>> I would guess that it comes in via the Carmanian Empire, as opposed to
>> the Dara Happan.
>Yeah, I'd agree. And the Carmanians get it from an ancient Western custom.
The Lunars are inventive and progressive people, they could have developed
it all by themselves.
How would the Earth Worshippers kill? Burial alive and defenestration
I could see for the Dark Earth worshippers.
>Without any supporting evidence other than the old name of the city, I've
>come to believe Hrestol was crucified on Zzabur's orders at Sog City.
I could accept "killed by Zzabur", but why does it have to be crucified?
I'd like Malkionism to be less like Christianity, not more. Also, I've
never seen any reference to Hrestol being executed, much less how he
died - can you point me to one? In fact none of the Malkioni Saints seem
to have the trials and executions associated with Christian ones, except
Xemela, and that was entirely self induced. Of course we have heard very
little about any of the Saints except Arkat.
>It would explain a lot of things, probably too intricate to go into here.
I'd certainly like to see your arguments.
--
Graeme Lindsell a.k.a lindsell@rschp1.anu.edu.au
Research School of Chemistry, Australian National University, Canberra.
"I was 17 miles from Greybridge before I was caught by the school leopard"
Ripping Yarns - Tomkinson's Schooldays.
---------------------
From: alex@dcs.gla.ac.uk
Subject: More shamelessly off-the-cuff retorts.
Message-ID: <9406010622.AA05667@trinidad.dcs.gla.ac.uk>
Date: 1 Jun 94 06:22:08 GMT
X-RQ-ID: 4291
Me:
> > However, "Fever-brained Gbaji-riddling son of a she-broo" is a tried and
> > tested standby for Lunars of all shapes, sizes, and illuminations.
Pam:
> Sounds like that will get your taxes raised, for sure!
What, you mean you _pay_ your taxes? Colloborator!
Why, as Thomas "Can't pray, won't pray" Sherrifs Din said to me, just the
other day, "A penny's impost paid buys the nails for another one of Our Boys
at The Front to be nailed to the Cross of Lunar Oppression!" And as I said
to him, "Thom, you're being overcharged for nails, I tell you."
Sandy "TrueFlame" Petersen ignites:
> Dave Dunham whines:
> >But, but, I thought the Orlanthi are herders because they live in
> >comparatively poor upland areas.
> I guess it's Petersen/Dunham culture clash. I know the
> Orlanthi brew beer and wine, so obviously they have grain and grapes.
> You must be from some lush rainy place like Washington state,
> Dave. Come visit Utah some day, and you'll see that "comparatively
> poor upland areas" are able to grow some crops, too. The land in Utah
> that is considered only suitable for cattle and sheep is REALLY bad
> -- more like Prax than Sartar. I figure Dragon Pass is more like
> Scotland or Wales. You can farm there, can't you? (Sam?)
There's a fair amount of land in Scotland and Wales which is only really
suited to sheep grazing. Not so much because the soil is infertile, as
such, but because the ground's so steep a cow'd roll off, and plowing is
difficult for the same reason, and the consequent thinness of the soil.
There's a further amount of land which is just about farmable, but is
difficult enough that it's done on a very small scale, and is of a very
"mixed" kind. Some arable, some pasture, pigs, chickens, etc. i.e.,
crofting, hill-farming. And some of it is suitable for honest-to-god
arable farming, yes. Not much in the way of corn or grapes, though.
But we're talking about "Sartar, not Scotland", so please your collective
selves. (I'd be surprised if Sartar wasn't warmer, at least.) And if
it's a rainy, then those Orlanth Thunderous priests really could save their
breath, and magic points.
Nick subjects us to the following:
> I prefer to believe that HeroQuesting is a subjective experience in which
> the quester usually encounters those otherworldly entities he expects to
> meet.
This is all well and good, but: Questors sometimes meet things they didn't
expect to; people _interact_ (cooperatively or antagonistically) on the
Heroplane/Godplane; actions on a Quest change things for later questors.
This suggests to me that it isn't, at least, some personal nightmare of
solipsism. So, in exactly what sense do we mean by "subjective"? (Or for
you zealots in the other camp, by "Objective?")
Alex.
---------------------