From: RuneQuest-Request@Glorantha.Holland.Sun.COM (RQ Digest Maintainer)
To: RuneQuest@Glorantha.Holland.Sun.COM (Daily automated RQ-Digest)
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Subject: RuneQuest Daily, Thu, 02 Jun 1994, part 2
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From: SMITHH@A1.MGH.HARVARD.EDU (Harald Smith 617 726-2172)
Subject: misc myths, etc
Message-ID: <01HD0RWAPK12Q81DHF@MR.MGH.HARVARD.EDU>
Date: 1 Jun 94 03:17:00 GMT
X-RQ-ID: 4294
Well after two full weeks off in the wastelands of the U.S.,
I find that I'm way behind in my RQ dailies, but will try to
catch up as quickly as possible. Incidentally, I find that
much of Arizona, in particular, makes great staging for Prax
and the Zola Fel valley. Too bad I'm not running a campaign
there. After hiking up enough canyon sides and mountain
ridges in temperatures from the 80s to over 100 degrees, I
can't picture anyone wanting to wear anything resembling
metal armor. And I think anyone would think twice about the
source of their water supplies as well.
So I pick up two weeks back. Apologies if some of these
threads have already been laid to rest.
- Matt Thale (x-rq-id 4004) asks about the relation of
Mastakos and Lokarnos.
Though both possess the movement rune, I do see them as
distinct. In Theyalan culture I think they represent the
attempt to describe two particular planets following the Sun
Path. Mastakos (as described in ES) takes eight hours to
cross the sky and then starts again without going to hell.
The Orlanthi claim this as their god of movement who can
teleport where he wants to go (takes Orlanth to hell and
then goes to pick him up at the other end). The other,
Wagon or Lokarnos takes 98 days to cross the sky and then 98
more to journey through hell. (ES claims the sky gods say
this is Lokarnos and he appears in GRoY as the Week God
because it takes 7 pre-SunStop days to cross the sky.)
Surely, the Orlanth community also sees this as the
lumbering wagon of those solar traders who deign to descend
to Dragon Pass. I don't think these figures are universally
recognized, though. In my Imtherian mythos, these are two
followers of Lightfore (called Lagavar in Imther) who
partially failed in their quests to follow their leader.
"Mastakos" was either rejected at the gates of dusk, which
Lagavar successfully passed OR is actually 2 planets which
travel perfectly opposite each other at all times (when one
rises the other sets). "Lokarnos" was crippled in hell and
must lumber along, aided by either a staff or carried on a
wagon.
- Martin Crim (x-rq-id 4013) asked me to mention Khelmal,
the Imtherian version of Yelmalio.
Basically, Khelmal is the societal founder of the Imtherian
lands with strong similarities to Yelmalio, but not Yelmalio
(just as Elmal is not Yelmalio). Yelmalions travelling to
Imther would be accepted at Khelmal's temples, but would
find some of the mythos and the roles of the god
significantly different. They would have to undergo some
form of initiation to realign themselves fully with Khelmal.
In rough outline, Khelmal is the son of Yelem, the sun god.
His father gives him rule over the Imtherian lands, as he
gives other sons rule over other parts of the world. Genert
(or Gerendetho) offers his daughter, Nealda, to Khelmal to
once again unite light and earth. But the evil trickster,
Orlantio, spies Nealda and wants her for himself. Orlantio
manages to get Khelmal's squire, Yurmalio, to open up a
doorway and promptly steals Nealda away. Khelmal is
outraged at the kidnapping of his betrothed and demands her
return. Orlantio of course refuses. Khelmal makes three
more demands and is refused each time. So Khelmal calls
upon his kin for aid and they march off to fight Orlantio
and his kin.
The forces converge at the Hill of Gold. (The story of this
fight was presented at RQ Con and, hopefully, is in whatever
collection David Cheng is pulling together so I won't repeat
it all here.) Basically, Khelmal had better strategy and
drove off several of Orlantio's allies. Orlantio, though,
used treachery again and got Yurmalio to betray his lord.
Orlantio nearly wins, but finally Khelmal confronts him
directly. And though Khelmal has lost his favorite weapons,
he uses his spear of hope to daunt Orlantio, so much so that
Orlantio stops his fight and leaves. (Not that it matters
to Orlantio since he has already traded Nealda away to his
dreadful brother, Orak the Hell Wind.)
Now Khelmal is confronted by Orak and Valind descending from
the north. Khelmal's weakened force has little chance to
win this battle, so Khelmal sacrifices his own fire powers,
releasing it upon his foes. Orak is scorched and burned and
driven underground. Valind is delayed, but keeps up his
advance. The sacrifice is enough to allow Khelmal and some
of his allies to flee into the Imtherian hills. There
Khelmal undertakes five tasks to rally mankind against the
darkness and chaos by binding them into new ways of life.
Khelmal worshippers do not know Monrogh, Togtuvei, or
Kuschile at all. They do know Asron Cloudcutter (a hero who
gained the spell Cloud Clear for the cult by heroquesting to
the Hill of Gold and obtaining the Horn of Retreat from the
chariot of Orlantio) and Heliacal the Light Protector (who
provides Shield of Light instead of the Shield spell, not
known to Khelmal worshippers). The cult has Light Servants
and Priests, but no Light Sons. There are different gifts
and geases which reflect the different choices made by
Khelmal from those made by Yelmalio.
That's a rough outline of aspects of the cult of Khelmal.
He is the key deity of Imther and represents the struggle to
hold the world together. While others went off on journeys
to rescue the sun (NOT led by Orlantio the Trickster), it
was Khelmal who kept the pieces together and allowed men to
live and survive.
- Assorted discussions on the Trinity
My feeling is that a son, father, spirit representation of
the Invisible God is not correct. The number 3 is important
to the followers of Malkion, but not in that way. I think
one thing to keep in mind is that to some extent the
development of the 3-in-1 Christianity was a mythical
inversion of the earlier pagan 3-in-1 goddess, used
particularly by early Christians to convert the pagans. I
can certainly see the Malkionis attempting to find ways to
convert the followers of the Serpent Kings or Orlanth
(creating saints, aiding Seshna, etc.), but a trinity of
aspects does not seem important mythologically. Now if the
Malkionis try to convert the Bloody Tusk ... ;-)
- Alex (x-rq-id 4018) asking about the realities of the
heroplane.
My view is that it does contain different realities and that
contradictory myths can and do exist. Sometimes the myths
and realities are brought together, perhaps after a
particular magico-mythical conquest (Lightbringers come to
Peloria, Praxians invade Storm Hills, Malkionis come to
Heortland, etc.). Then new cults, new subcults, new
tellings of the mythical stories are crafted, often subtly.
At other times, the myths split apart, again yielding
variations in theme.
In Imther, the Dara Happan expansion under Shargash/Antirius
founded a "Sun Dome" temple. A new warrior class developed
under the umbrella of the Khelmal cult. This class existed
for much of six centuries until destroyed in the Dragonkill
War. Then, older versions of the Khelmal cult were
reasserted and the warrior as champion of the sun was
abandoned in favor of an older savior of mankind.
Many variations can and do exist. Orlanth could be slain
(in Imther, the trickster Orlantio is hung, but later
saved). Yelm might not die, but go instead on the
"Lightbringer" quest to save the world (perhaps this is a
view from Teshnos where fire powers do rule?).
- Alex (x-rq-id 4021) on lo-metal.
Lo-metal in one form (as sa-metal) is green, not red, and
would be appropriate for a metal of Lorion or that worn by
Gnydron.
--Harald
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From: jacobus@sonata.cc.purdue.edu (Bryan J. Maloney)
Subject: Aeolian Church
Message-ID: <9406011432.AA27596@sonata.cc.purdue.edu>
Date: 1 Jun 94 04:32:53 GMT
X-RQ-ID: 4295
Hello, can anyone point me to information on the Aeolian Church that I
can actually get my hands onto? (This means no out of print or otherwise
inaccessible pseudo-sources.) My party may be heading out Wilmskirk way
and I thought it would be fun to have them have to deal with Aeolians.
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From: carlsonp@wdni.com (Carlson, Pam)
Subject: RE:Dogs, Horses
Message-ID: <2DEC97CB@emssmtp.msm.weyer.com>
Date: 31 May 94 21:44:00 GMT
X-RQ-ID: 4296
!. Thank you all for your answers to my questions, particularly the one on
Orlanthi justice. Now I'm already for my next Dorastor session.
As for methods of execution (oh, what a lovely subject:-( ): I would think
that when Yelmites want to execute someone terribly unpopular they wouldn't
give the victom the privilege of fire - they'd bury the sucker alive.
2. I see my dog comment brought out all the self-confessed Cat People!
Martin:
> Re: Doggies
> Quite agree. Why don't you write some of these up?
>Something along the lines of:
>Sartarite Sheepdog: SIZ 4-5; white or gray; built for long-
>distance running. Loyal, hard-working, easy to train, and very
>demanding in time and energy to keep.
Precisely! Martin, are you sure you're a cat person? You sound like the
owner of a border collie:-)
>The average Sartarite shepherd keeps 3 dogs, and feeds them on ...
Haggis and stout, what else?
Seriously, I'd be happy to design some dog types, with applicable skills and
maybe some notes on keeping a dog while adventuring.
3. Someone else (the intrepid pony-trekker) understandably lamented the
lack of horse details. We noticed this long ago, and already have several
horse types created, as well as (hang onto your seats) a HORSE COLOR CHART!
( How can a well-adjusted gamer adventure for years from the back of a
trusty equine, without even knowing what color he/she/it is?) We have
come up with some quirky behaviors for horses over the years - and I think
"likes to play in water" was one of them. There is also a GURPS supplement
on horses with lots of good information.
Would any other folks be interested in horse & dog detail for RQ?
Are there any aspects you would particularly like to see addressed?
4. Loved the Yinkin the Shepherd story. And - Yinkin was right about
keeping the rats from the granaries and the birds from the fields: brother
dog could do that, too!
Pam
<^==@
/\ /\
carlsonp@wdni.com
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From: davidc@cs.uwa.edu.au (David Cake)
Subject: Re:Men and a half
Message-ID: <199406011634.AAA20524@melomys.cs.uwa.oz.au>
Date: 1 Jun 94 16:36:23 GMT
X-RQ-ID: 4297
Sandy said
> If it's mommy and daddy were men-and-a-half, he'll be one,
>too. If it's a half-breed, then it'll be a mixed-breed.
missing the obvious - if its a half breed, it will be a man-and-a-quarter :-)
Cheers
Dave Cake
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From: DevinC@aol.com
Subject: Some Riddles and a Story
Message-ID: <9406011255.tn700716@aol.com>
Date: 1 Jun 94 16:55:56 GMT
X-RQ-ID: 4298
Devin Cutler here:
I have designed some riddles for a heroquest for my campaign (it seems that
most HQ's published involve the Trickster and riddling, so I thought I'd
include some as well, especially since it is a Lightbringer-type HQ.
In any case, it is difficult for me to know how hard or easy the riddles
are..........so I would appreciate guesses from the net and comments on ease
or difficultness (sp):
Riddle 1:
What was found by laughter, adopted by truth, used by trees, taken by ambush,
and cleansed by the winds?
Riddle 2:
Children of Time
and of Death
Always busy
with every breath
the world their charge
land above heel
watching each
spark and wheel
condemned to live
eternal life
unless cut short
by untimely strife
with wonders taken
by human hands
they've secrets left
to fix the land
Riddle 3:
One of five can find a treasure but never bring it back. Two of five can
loose the arrow that starts the attack. Three of five can steal a purse and
leave no track. Four of five can pledge a vow so loyalty does not lack. But
five of five can do anything once they have the knack.
Riddle 4:
What is square but rolls round and when done spots abound?
Riddle 5:
Weaver and assassin
with the sight og four men
lurks in darkness always waiting
for some play in its pen
knows its place
and knows its fate
and goes out hunting
with its eight
But when Heler falls
and morning hies
majestic artistry
its deadly disguise
Riddle 6:
This Lord has fallen
from his haughty throne
and dead though he be
you'll fine neither skull nor bone
for mercy was given
for his cowardly ways
and now he lives on
at least for some days
but the Lord is afraid
as a timid lark
and he runs for his shelter
with the approach of the dark
but we must give him some credit
where credit is due
were the Lord not craven but dead
then of us there'd be few.
Riddle 7:
Two cows and some trees with a squid running through them lie on a bench and
impart wisdom to the world.
My impression is that #7 is very tough, #2 and #5 are very easy. #6 is
probably easy also, but I am including it as an insult from the Trickster to
one of the PC's.
I'll post answers in a few days-)
I also have a few Nysalor Riddles I thought I'd share. The commentary is
missing, and I'll probably write that up one day, but I'd welcome a sample of
what such commentary might look like from the net:
1) What is it that can be climbed but not jumped in one instance, but jumped
and not climbed in another?
Answer: A chasm, the first of which is too wide to jump but shallow, and the
second of which is too steep to climb but narrow.
Skill Riddled : Climb and Jump
2) What is it that you can stand on by night but lie in by day?
Answer: A block of ice
Skill Riddled: World Lore
3) Name the surest way to follow someone's tracks?
Answer: keep them in sight
Skill Riddled: Tracking
4) Which is a better way to slay a friend, with a thrust or a slice?
Answer: Neither, one should not attack a friend
Skill Riddled: One handed sword
Regards,
Devin Cutler
devinc@aol.com