From: RuneQuest-Request@Glorantha.Holland.Sun.COM (RQ Digest Maintainer) To: RuneQuest@Glorantha.Holland.Sun.COM (Daily automated RQ-Digest) Reply-To: RuneQuest@Glorantha.Holland.Sun.COM (RuneQuest Daily) Subject: RuneQuest Daily, Sat, 04 Jun 1994, part 1 Sender: Henk.Langeveld@Holland.Sun.COM Content-Return: Prohibited Precedence: junk X-RQ-ID: Intro This is the RuneQuest Daily Bulletin, a mailing list on the subjects of Avalon Hill's RPG and Greg Stafford's world of Glorantha. It is sent out once per day in digest format. More details on the RuneQuest Daily and Digest can be found after the last message in this digest. --------------------- From: sandyp@idcube.idsoftware.com (Sandy Petersen) Subject: new stuff Message-ID: <9406031759.AA05738@idcube.idsoftware.com> Date: 3 Jun 94 05:59:14 GMT X-RQ-ID: 4354 I got some questions from Thomas Lindgren, from Uppsala >how much of the mythology and history of Glorantha is the product of >roleplaying campaigns of various sorts? Not too much. The campaigns tended to inspire stuff, but not necessarily create it. For instance, Urrgh the Ugly's experience with the Sun Wheel Dancer ultimately inspired the Giant Cradle scenario, which then influenced Argrath's career. >_did_ anyone >play Argrath or any of the other mythological figures? Not that I know of. Argrath appears numerous times in various Chaosium scenarios, always under a pseudonym (often composed of the letters of his name mixed up). Joerg comments: >King Sartar ... was said to have "mastered the Change (Mobility) >Rune". Rather than to access the actual entity, these individuals >directly access the powers the Celestial Court member embodied than >directly worship it. Nothing says Sartar didn't get his powers from other individuals rather than "directly from the powers". Brent Krupp sez >my limited memory of basic zoology includes the idea that birds >(female AND male) have internal genitalia... so I would think >castrating a duck would be a pretty darn hard thing to do. Yet both turkeys and chickens are regularly castrated. I'm not sure of the exact procedure here, but I know that "Turkey Fries", like "Sheep Fries" or "Calf Fries" are eaten out west at certain times of the year. >OTOH, since durulz are a human-(normal) duck hybrid of sorts, maybe >the male duck genitalia is more, um, external... Ducks are a human/duck hybrid? What, just because they have teeth? I believe that male duck genitalia is internal. Why, you ask? Donald doesn't wear pants, nor does Daffy. Clearly, they got nothing to show. Joerg mentions >I had the impression that most active roleplaying in the US took >place at colleges or universities and around these. Hard for me to say. I don't play at colleges, and very few of my players have been college students. When I was IN college, most of my players were college students, but those days are long past. >Are there places in Glorantha where one can grow two crops a year? Sure. Teshnos, Fonrit, and I suspect Umathela. They all have warm winters with sufficient rainfall. >a world that spawned so many different intelligent life should have >a few unique unintelligent beasts. I'm as responsible for this state of affairs as anyone, since I wrote the RQII Bestiary, the RQ III Creatures Book and the Glorantha Bestiary (okay, perhaps I'm a little MORE responaible for this state of affairs than anyone else). Here's my defense of my actions. There is a vast chasm between encounters with intelligent creatures and mere animals. With animals, all you can do is be attacked by them, or attack them. Yes, I know all of us have found other things to do with them, but the VAST MAJORITY of the time, one of those two courses are generally followed. Because of this, the only function of an unintelligent creature is to be interesting while the players fight it. D&D is packed chock-full of unintelligent monsters with HUGE variety, in dozens of sizes and shapes. To me, fighting an allosaurus or a giant praying mantis is MORE interesting than taking on some lame made-up thing like a neo-otyugh or a stench kow. I can at least make some predictions about the possible behavior, fighting style, etc. of the mantis or dinosaur. But when faced by a dracolisk, what the hell am I supposed to do? Anyway, we DO have a few weird unintelligent monsters left for RQers. The Gateway Bestiary boasts the charnjibber, cockatrice, gargoyle, gobbler, gulper, hoon, hydra, jolanti, midget slasher, nightstalker, rubble runner, shadow cat, skybull, and tusker. The RQ III monsters book has the bandersnatch, basilisk, behemoth, dragonsnail, gorp, jabberwock, rock lizard, stoorworm, cliff toad, walktapus, and wyvern. And you have to give us SOME credit for the fairly stupid creatures (2d6 or less INT) that the game boasts -- things like the fachan, rascullu, or gray giant. Plus you have to admit the giant insects I've snuck in wherever I could justify it are a bit alien to most players (grampus, lucan, etc.) >As I recall to become a tribal cheiftan in Prax, the poor sap must >go to the the fens surrounding The Block and kill a chaos beast. I >like the idea that to become a Storm Khan you must do the same thing >(in some regions at least). I don't think that becoming a Storm Khan requires you to kill a chaos monster on a special quest -- anyone who's even bein CONSIDERED for Storm Khan had better have killed heaps of chaos monsters by that time. However, I do agree that Storm Bulls have special holy sites they do pilgrimages to -- the Block is one obvious spot. Another, less obvious, one is the magic box in the Chaos Wastes that produces a chaos monster every Sacred Time. A band of Storm Bulls gathers each year to combat it. Sometimes the monster is a piddly little thing, like a gorp or chaos worm, but sometimes it is something stupendous. >I wouldn't wish to be a neighbour of the Loskalmi, unless I liked >crusades. I'm sure that the Loskalmi are as internally wonderful as >they're portrayed: I don't like living near people who are sure they >know all the answers, and have a religion that demands a large army. I see what you mean. On the other hand, so far their crusade is aimed at the Kingdom of War, obvious bad guys. They've expressed no territorial ambitions, except maybe over Junora, which is being gobbled up by the KoW and Jonatela anyway, both of whom would make worse masters than Loskalm. >I especially don't like it when civil and religous advancement are >tied to military prowess, and all the leaders are ex-priests of the >church. Obviously you mistrust religion. A reasonable enough attitude, but It may not be shared by all Gloranthans. I admit that Loskalm has the capacity to wreak great harm, should they want, and that its neighboring states have to simply trust in Loskalm's Good Will. On the other hand, there's few large nations in Glorantha that are more likely to be good guys than Loskalm. Another potential source of good Malkioni, by the way, are the duchies of Nolos and Pasos, who appear to be run by reasonable men, opposed to the fairly grim King of Tanisor. >I'd prefer a society which the players could interact with if they >came from another, and doesn't produce fanatic PC's or a huge >proportion of landless peasants. Seems to me that Nolos, Pasos, Loskalm, and parts of Safelster all fill the bill. Maybe even Tanisor, if we assume that the king, though evil, isn't all that oppressive, which I think is fair. I believe that land-owning peasants are the norm in Loskalm, and reasonably common in Tanisor -- maybe real common, because unlike Medieval Europe, where a noble is defined by owning land, in Tanisor, a noble is defined by his caste. Therefore, a noble is simply "assigned" the rule over a section of land, which may actually be owned by the peasants who work it, though they owe taxes and fealty to their lord. For Bad Guy Malkioni, Jonatela is probably our best bet. And, of course, parts of Safelster. Joerg sez >Heler is one of the most aggressive of the war gods of the Orlanthi. Huh? Where'd this come from? I understood Heler to be mild-mannered and pastoral. Dave Cake says: >Basically, I think that the Hrestoli are the good guys, as long as >you are on their good side, but I think that they can be terrifying >when they decide that you are the bad guys. Yeah, I guess so. They are a great potential power for ill or good, and you just have to hope they stick to the good. Cullen O'Neill says; >I've an idea... Land Goddesses have aspects, these aspects are the >grain goddesses. If a LG doesn't have a particular GG as an aspect >then that grain WILL NOT grow ... in that land. I'd prefer it to be that the grains appropriate to the GG aspects grow better, rather than non-grains not growing. Lewis says: >I don't know whether this relationship has already been noticed >here. But has anyone thought that Unicorns might be in some way >connected to Broo. After all they are both Male Only Species which >mate with females from other species in order to procreate. I wrote the original article about Unicorns, and it was partly due to my own urging that all-male broos were propagated (the suggestion originally came from Steve Marsh, and I popularized it at Chaosium). Clearly Unicorns and Broos represent opposite sides of a coin. I'm not sure if Unicorns descend from one of Ragnaglar's relatives, but I never thought of them as being particularly a Storm thing. Maybe they come from one of Thed's sisters, whatever she used to be. (I suggested Thrifty as a Malkioni Farmer virtue) Cullen responds: >Thrifty I'm not really sure of... they don't have much $$$ Exactly my point. John Hughes mentions from the pamaltela book: >Culture: Doraddi. All natives of Jolar belong to their lineage. >Each person traces his or her lineage through the female line.... This does not contradict my system -- it is merely a more restrictive instance of it. >For instance, in your system, a child may be of a different lineage >from both parents. In such a case, how is family and lineage >identity forged? Your family identity is still based on your mom. Your lineage is not really the same thing at all. Note also that the lineage system I created is supposed to be quite widespread in Pamaltela -- cross-cultural, in fact (though not all cultures use it, of course). I know that the "plant grows on your grave" is an extremely widespread belief in Pamaltela. The Kresh exploit it for power, and the other people who believe in this believe that it happens even on the graves of non-believers. I think that the Pamaltelan savannah, while diverse, probably doesn't boast hundreds of utterly different cultures (like Africa or North America). There has been lots of cross-insemination through the Jmijie folks and the occasional huge cooperative efforts, such as the fight vs. the Six-Legged Empire, the wars vs. the jungle, and the building of new oases. Hence, beliefs like the plant lineages are probably as widespread as, say, Swahili. >Is inheritence matrilineal? Usually. Technically, a man owns only his weapons and clothing among the Doraddi. The woman owns everything else. >Who raises the children? If the parents follow the "standard" Doraddi system in which you marry a much older person, then the younger spouse does most of the child-rearing, but it's supposed to be a joint job, I expect. >Is there brideservice or dowry? What's a brideservice? I don't think the Doraddi purchase their brides. However, families with especially desirable sons sometimes demand gifts before they'll allow him to marry. After all, the son is going to go off to live with the wife's family, so they'll lose his services. >Is post marriage residence matrilocal or patrilocal? Remember, they're nomads. But usually you go to live with the wife's tribe and in her tent. If the husband is real important, or in line for the chieftainship or something, the wife might go live with him. Remember that even Pamalt has to live in Aleshmara's tent. >What are the other systems of social organisation besides lineages - >e.g. totems, age-groups, etc. 1) Tribe 2) relatives 3) in-laws (more important than relatives to a man, less important to a woman) 4) the oasis at which your elders reside 5) societies 6) cross-tribe organizations, including the Arbennan Confederation. 7) cults >What are the laws of ownership and inheritance? The man owns his weapons and his clothing. The woman owns everything else. When a wife dies, her stuff goes to her husband, though her mother might want to pick through the loot first. When a kid strikes out on his own, his parents normally gift him a bunch of stuff. A girl doesn't get these gifts, because she normally stays with her mom. I don't think the inheritance laws are super-strict among the Doraddi, because they really own very little, and in fact have an anti-materialist culture and philosophy. Remember, they aren't "real" primitives (except in Tarien), but have evolved/degenerated from highly sophisticated cultures. Don't be fooled by their lack of trappings. >What are the closest kinship relations - guidefather, cousin, sister >etc. I think your same-sex parent is your closest, then your other parent, then your maternal grandmother. >Is marriage - monogamous? Yes, usually. >is it exclusive? Yes, usually. >How does divorce work? The wife kicks the husband out of the tent. If the husband decided to leave, instead, I think he just leaves. >Who is responsible for children? Grandma. >Are there marriage age differentials? Yes. If you recall my early posting, I stated that the "norm" was for a young man or woman to marry a middle-aged spouse. >Could you detail the highlights of a lineage domestic cycle - from >birth to marriage to death? Okay. You're born in your mom's tent. Your grandma (mom's mom) rears you. When you become a man, you go to the bachelor's tent until you marry. When you find the right woman, you're probably around 20 years old, and she's probably 40-50. She's got heaps of loot, and is real experienced. A fine catch. You marry her, and live in luxury. after ten or twenty years, she gets old and either retires to an oasis or dies. You are now free to remarry. Since you are now a man of status, with plenty of loot, you marry a cute young thing from a neighboring tribe. Of course, once married all your stuff is technically hers, but you're more or less the boss now anyway. Well, after ten or twenty years of married bliss, you get too old for the nomad life, and either die or retire to an oasis. At the oasis, you become a priest of Cronisper (or whatever) and probably marry yet again, this time finding a woman who's about your own age. If you're a woman instead, the course of events is similar except you don't have to go to a bachelor's tent. Instead, you stay in your mom's tent. You even stay there after you're married (your husband comes to live with you). --------------------- From: NDROBINS@NDROBINS.FIN.GOV.BC.CA Subject: Devin's Riddles Message-ID: <9406030759.AA1505@NDROBINS.FIN.GOV.BC.CA> Date: 3 Jun 94 08:56:16 GMT X-RQ-ID: 4338 I think this is #3: >One of five can find a treasure but never bring it back. Two of five can >loose the arrow that starts the attack. Three of five can steal a purse and >leave no track. Four of five can pledge a vow so loyalty does not lack. But >five of five can do anything once they have the knack. Everyone is being too 'Gloranthan' - as if on can be :-) How about a hand (with its five fingers..) Neil Be warned Devin, I may end up 'borrowing' a few. _______________________________________________________________ Neil Robinson NDROBINS@NDROBINS.FIN.GOV.BC.CA --------------------- From: 100270.337@CompuServe.COM (Nick Brooke) Subject: Heler Message-ID: <940603081901_100270.337_BHL74-1@CompuServe.COM> Date: 3 Jun 94 08:19:02 GMT X-RQ-ID: 4339 ______ Heler: > Heler is one of the most aggressive of the war gods of the Orlanthi. Balls. He's not a warrior, although his statues are painted blue, and so he is never shown holding weapons to avoid misunderstanding. He is more often a lover -- which leads me neatly on to: > Heler is associated with sheep (among others because of the cloud forms). Getting coy, Joerg?> If we think through this further, he is likely to have worn a helmet with > a rams horns. If he ever wore a helmet, which I doubt. Now, Yanafal Tarnils wore a helmet with ram's horns (codpiece, too!), and came from Yuthuppa... I liked Joerg's hypothesis in utero. This developed version is malformed. IMHO. ______ Sandy: > Though the GL did not intend to destroy the world, their activities > unwittingly undercut the world's basis. Glorantha reacted by sending > antibodies to eliminate the threat. I wonder if Greg's "Glorantha hypothesis" predated the "Gaia hypothesis". On Loskalmi "Good Guys", I find the Genertela Book statement that: : The king formed the Order of the Swallow to combat the Kingdom of War. : It is hard to tell who is more eager for the fight. absolutely chilling. I mean: the Kingdom of War exists only to fight wars. And maybe some Loskalmi are *even keener* than they are to fight?! Sheesh! ==== Nick ==== --------------------- From: appel@erzo.berkeley.edu (Shannon Appel) Subject: Re: soda Message-ID: <199406030712.AAA04522@erzo.berkeley.edu> Date: 2 Jun 94 17:12:47 GMT X-RQ-ID: 4340 >What are the "numbers" to reach the soda via ftp? >If I type "ftp soda.berkeley.edu" I get an unknown host error message. 128.32.149.19 Shannon --------------------- From: SMITHH@A1.MGH.HARVARD.EDU (Harald Smith 617 726-2172) Subject: bad margins and gods of movement Message-ID: <01HD3KA20HO6Q825X4@MR.MGH.HARVARD.EDU> Date: 3 Jun 94 02:52:00 GMT X-RQ-ID: 4341 Joerg (x-rq-id 4321) Thanks for the comment on the Imther piece. I apologize about the margins. The word processing package that I use for all my email comes with a 1" margin built into the left edge. I have tried to adjust it for this post-- hope it works. > Converting heathens I suspect, though could well be wrong since I haven't read anything on the Balkan peninsula in the early Christian period for quite awhile, that aspects of the 3-in-1 goddess would still have been present there amongst the populace. It had already gone through earlier transformations with the Dorian conquest of Greece, but I think these aspects carry through more than might be suspected. I also think that there was still a Celtic influence in Gaul in this period which would have had the 3-in-1 goddess under a Roman guise. Both these areas were certainly within the bounds of the Roman Empire. Paul Reilly (x-rq-id 4328) > Gods of movement Your point about all of them being crippled in some fashion following the pattern of Larnste sounds correct, though I could picture certain areas with what they think are exceptions. If an area viewed the Sun or Lightfore as their god of movement, then the mythos would probably not be that they were crippled, but that they were bound. --Harald Smith --------------------- From: SYS_RSH%PV0A@hobbes.cca.rockwell.com (The Lotus Jukebox) Subject: Ducks without weenies Message-ID: <01HD3KECSV9U8Y6BK8@hobbes.cca.rockwell.com> Date: 3 Jun 94 03:18:37 GMT X-RQ-ID: 4342 Now, I know that "capon" isn't strictly accurate for a duck, or is it? ----- Well, ducks is not me area of specialty, but I know that the word "gallinaceous" refers to both chickens and turkeys (and pheasant, I think)--basically, land-bound fowl. Ducks are something different altogether, so I'd say that ducks are never 'capons.' (Probably turkeys aren't either...a friend used to raise turkeys, and he never used the word.) =========== birds (female AND male) have internal genitalia... ----- They do, but you can still castrate a rooster. I'm not sure of the exact procedure, but it's done. =========== so I would think castrating a duck would be a pretty darn hard thing to do. ----- True. Especially the ones with crossbows. --Scott