Bell Digest v940604p3

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Subject: RuneQuest Daily, Sat, 04 Jun 1994, part 3
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From: joe@sartar.toppoint.de (Joerg Baumgartner)
Subject: Save Genertela! campaigns of the God Learners
Message-ID: 
Date: 3 Jun 94 15:53:42 GMT
X-RQ-ID: 4351

Sandy Petersen in X-RQ-ID: 4325

> David Gadbois sez:
>> If the God Learners had not done their thing, I suspect that the  
>>Third Age (whatever that would have been) would have been the last.
>	Despite my occasional defense of the God Learners, I don't  
> agree with David G. on this point. It is my belief that the world  
> very nearly ended with the Second Age BECAUSE of the God Learners'  
> activities. The Sending Gods barely came in time. 

Hmm. Maybe the Lunars are right about death and rebirth? Each Age has 
seen an effort for rebirth of some Godtime entity or reality, so 
there must be some compulsion to do so. _Maybe_ these efforts which 
regularly turn out to threaten the whole universe are as important to 
the continued existance of the universe as are the Sacred Time rites.

Nick, does this catch the Lunar Way? Am I illuminated now, ripe for the 
White Moon to come?

> 	Though the GL did not intend to destroy the world, their  
> activities unwittingly undercut the world's basis. Glorantha reacted  
> by sending antibodies to eliminate the threat. 

But before the GLs did start a lot of projects to improve the lot 
of all Gloranthans. Most important were the Genert projects, I think.

I liked your theory about the Goddess Switch as a preparatory experiment 
for the Land God Switch. If the God Learners could prove that Genert 
wasn't slain, but took refuge in kind of a necklace, then this necklace 
could have been retrieved and Genert could be freed.

On a similar line there is the marriage vow of the unlucky Garzeen. That 
his bride, daughter of King Froalar and presumably the Goddess Seshna 
Likita, gave him an impossible groom quest seems to be a common folk- and 
fairy tale event. Read the verses of Scarborough Fair for good examles of 
impossible groom quests.

I like to think that these impossible quests are a justification to 
criticize the husband/wife later in marriage, or even a jursidictional 
means to nullify the marriage should things go really wrong - after all, 
the other party did not fulfil their wedding vow. Anthropologists?

The God Learners might have included the Genert quest into this set of 
impossible quests. It would be reasonable that the daughter of a land 
goddess would want to rescue her grandfather (according to the monomyth), 
wouldn't it? No big deal to include it into Garzeen's cult, which had 
been merged into the Lightbringer Issaries cult by some other project.

So now every Issaries priest turned Desert Tracker still works for the 
goal to reconstruct Genert from the parts Hyena (a Trickster of the 
Wastes) first had Dismembered and then Swallowed. Look at the Trickster 
spell list for details.

This might be a (constructed?) parallel myth to both the necklace myth 
of Pamalt and the incident where the trickster saved the Artmali empire 
by posing as the emperor and being carried off instead.

For fantasy purposes, I am a firm believer in parallel evolution of 
both species and myths.

> 	"The rot" was, of course, Power. The GL discovered that their  
> knowledge of the heroplane, and their understanding of god, myth, and  
> mankind enabled them to do new things that nobody had ever done  
> before. The classic example is their use of the Forbidden God. 

This rot seems to be part of the cycles of rebirth and death. The 
God Learners weren't the only ones to stumble over this - the EWF 
did so simultaneously, the Lunar empire does so ever since the conquest 
of Tarsh, Loskalm with all its virtues all but created the Kingdom of War, 
the First Council broke, the Arkati Crusade for freedom turned into a 
rampage of wanton destruction.

Illumination might be the secret that to ensure the continued existence 
of this bubble in the void, you have to try and destroy it, and yourself.

Ragnaglar might have been the first to realize this. ? ?? ?????

May all of ye bask in the Glow of the Goddess!
-- 
--  Joerg Baumgartner   joe@sartar.toppoint.de

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From: bonar@newton.rutgers.edu (Doug Bonar)
Subject: 7 riddles
Message-ID: <9406031616.AA02619@newton.rutgers.edu>
Date: 3 Jun 94 16:16:18 GMT
X-RQ-ID: 4352


I find it strange that #3 and #4 on the list of riddles aren't
listed by the writer as easy.  Even more surprising to me is
that the two answer lists I've seen posted neither answers 3
and the one that answers 4 thinks it is medium in difficulty.

For me those two were easy and the others were much harder.  By
that I mean that just reading #3 and #4 gave me the answers, but
for the other ones I would have had to think (and know some 
Glorantha lore).  

I suspect that part of the reason I found the two easy is that 
they seem to be descriptions that are close to normal discriptions.
The fingers are just about the cononical description of '5' and 
the tasks seemed quite clear (though it is interesting that the 
thumb seems to be numbered 5 in the counting, even though it is
in the 0 place.  :-)  ).  A die is so common to many gamers that
something close to a realistic description seems bound to be 
easily answered.  

In a meta sense, I offer the following.

'I am the spinner of fates.  Leaping, skiping and tumbling I go, 
perhaps over the hills of the world, perhaps simple on a tavern
table.  When I stop I'll tell the tales of man and beast alike.
Who am I?'


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From: QFF00036@niftyserve.or.jp (QFF00036@niftyse)
Subject: RuneQuest 90s, Yet Another RQ-Lite.
Message-ID: <199406031544.AAA23365@inetnif.niftyserve.or.jp>
Date: 3 Jun 94 15:09:00 GMT
X-RQ-ID: 4353

Kuri here.

Bill wrote in X-RQ-ID:4314
>> OK, last bit: RQ here in Japan seems really popular. Apart from the
>> AH translations, there's a home-grown thingie called "RuneQuest 90s",
>> which has some interesting interpolations... Let me know if you want
>> to know more...

>Yes!  I'm very interested.  If nobody else expresses interest publicly, 
>then contact me through e-mail.

RQ90s is a good example "RQ Lite".
- A4 160p Basepak + A4 140p Suppliment(Extra background and rules).
  Each includes ready-to-run scenario.
- Needs only D6s.
- Nice Illustrations. Japanimation touch :-).
- Rich Background information about Dragon Pass.
  Brief history of Glorantha and Dragon Pass. Detailed history of Sartar
  and Lunar. Myth, maps, runes, clans, magic items, etc...
- Rich cult information.
  For Player characters ...
   Orlanth, Humakt, Storm Bull, Charana Arroy, Issaries, Lhanker Mhy,
   Yelmalio, Ernalda, Odayra, Babeester Gor, Lanbril, Eurmal, Dnandar.
  For NPCs or Enemies ...
   Kygor Litor, Zorak Zoran, Mostal, Aldrya, 7 Mothers, Etiryes, Krasht,
   Malia, Bagog, Thed, Thanatar, Vivamort, Bloody Tusk.
- Simplified Character Generation (Cult-based template method).
- Only two Skill Categories. Mental skills and Physical skills.
  Mental skill mod is INT score. Physical skill mod is DEX score.
- No ENC. No Fatigue. No Hit Location. No Strike Rank but DEX-Rank.
- No Resistance Roll but Characteristic Roll does.
- No Special Hit. Only Critical on 1/10 of success chance.
- RQ2-like Impale/Slash/Crush rules.
- No enchant. No ritual magic. No shaman. No sorcery.
- No starndard Rune Magics. 3 to 5 Rune Magics for every cult.
  Ex. Orlanth:    

Especially the only suppliment named "Dragon Atlas" is EXCELLENT.
I prefer RQ90s more than RQ3.

Regards.
                       // Kuri (QFF00036@niftyserve.or.jp) //


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From: f6ri@midway.uchicago.edu (charles gregory fried)
Subject: Calling all RQers!
Message-ID: 
Date: 3 Jun 94 16:24:14 GMT
X-RQ-ID: 4355

Greg Fried here.

(Nils W. -- you are forbidden to read the following!  By pain of lava
immersion.) 

I now use my e-megaphone to summon any RQer in the Ann Arbor Michigan area!

If you are within easy travel distance of Ann Arbor, I am looking for one,
possibly more, RQer to participate in my itinerant Midwestern
pseudo-Gloranthan RQ campaign for ONE SESSION when we play in Ann Arbor
during the weekend of Friday June 10 (11?). I will need someone to
play the opposition to my PCs and their allies in a pitched battle!
We will be using Rory Robertson's RQ wargame rules (thanks, Rory!).

Your force?  A war band of crazed Storm worshipers and their serf
levies!

The PCs?  Oh, just a few heroes and their Agimori spearmen phalanxes.
Nothing an avid student of Napoleon couldn't handle.  

Your mission? Destroy them utterly!

Please write me at f6ri@midway.uchicago.edu

GF out.

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From: mabeyke@batman.b11.ingr.com (boris)
Subject: Evil thoughts, and Riddles
Message-ID: <199406031803.AA21355@batman.b11.ingr.com>
Date: 3 Jun 94 18:03:43 GMT
X-RQ-ID: 4356

  Hello, Boris here.

  ________________
  In X-RQ-ID: 4312, Brent Krupp mentioned
>Subject: Duck castrati...

  But thankfully didn't talk about that, just "fixing" ducks.  The image of
  a choir full of Daffys, Donalds, Hueys, Deweys & Leweys, etc., singing
  in soprano duck voices is something that cost me much of what little
  sanity I had left.  Thanks a lot.

  _________________
  In X-RQ-ID: 4317, Graeme Lindsell combines several suggested execution
  methods:

> Which lead to the ever popular "cut his throat, throw him out the
>window into the pit of crocodiles and then fill it with dirt". Needs
>a good choreographer.

  But you could sell tickets and make a fortune!

  ________________
  In X-RQID: 4318, the ever inventive Nick Brooke compares New Pelorian to
  Orwellian Newspeak.  You are an *evil*, *evil*, man, Nick.  In a less
  amoral society, I'm sure you would have long since been burned.

  BTW, thanks for the idea.

  ________________
  And finally, the subject that's on everybody's mind, Devin's riddles.
  The first seems easy enough for everybody (though Paul Reilly makes a
  cryptic comment about the First and Second Gifts of the Dark Woman;
  who is this, Subere, or Nakala?  And what was her second gift?)

  Number 2 seems to have been easy for everyone but me (duh).

  There have been a number of guesses for #3, but I think everyone is off
  the mark; I believe it's "fingers".

  Number four seems to be more difficult, but our Lord Argrath gives us
  the answer.  Number five again seems easy enough, as well as six.

  Seven seems a stumper: "Two cows and some trees with a squid running
  through them lie on a bench and impart wisdom to the world."  The bench
  is what threw me, but after reflection, I believe it is "a book".  Though
  I think, given Sartarite manufacture, it would be "two cows and some
  sheep"; if Dara Happan, "some reeds".  But that's picking nits, they
  were good riddles.  Thanks Devin.
----
  Boris

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From: jpolk@opus.starlab.csc.com (James Polk)
Subject: Trading Mechanics
Message-ID: <9406031907.AA17247@opus.starlab.csc.com>
Date: 3 Jun 94 19:07:56 GMT
X-RQ-ID: 4357



Mike Dickison & Trading (X-RQ-ID: 4126)

Thank you, Mike, for raising some interesting points here.  One
of my favorite characters is one I run in Harald Smith's Imther
campaign. Hysterius is a Trader but the fact that good, honest
economic activity is not well simulated in RQ means he has turned
to a life of... well, I had better not say, with so many stuffy
Orlanthi listening . 


"The RQ rules dwell quite some length on combat, but hardly touch
other activities involved in a game."

This is a common problem in role-playing rules. Hack and Slash
mechanics reign supreme. 


"4)      A bargaining mechanic that uses both buyer and seller
skills, and in which the rolled skill-vs-skill difference
translates neatly into a (modest) price differential. Most
importantly, there should be bonuses and penalties for good and
bad roleplaying, and some opportunity for players to use strategy
and wit, so they feel they and not the dice are doing the work.

5) Finally, the whole thing has to be worked out so that an
average trader on an average year with an average cargo will make
a modest profit, to stop the PCs getting rich without some effort
and luck. And so that it, I repeat once again, allows lots and
lots of scope for bartering, bombastical, sneaky, barefaced
roleplaying."

It seems to me that any player who wishes to role-play a Trader
must actually role-play the bargaining process.  So the GM will
have also have to learn to role-play the bargaining process _and_
use snap decisions to reflect subtle differences (or use a
complex system of tables to determine modifiers for the NPC
bargainer).  I think it helps if a GM has some structure around
which she/he can build the culture of the particular area in
which her/his campaign is set, but the player (and character)
mustn't feel that everything is cut-and-dried.  

I suggest the GM use tables to determine the "standard" price,
modified by whatever (distance travelled, scarcity, etc.) to set
the NPC's expectations. I further suggest the GM allow the player
to outline actions by the PC which could confuse the NPC (such as
disguising the general quality of the apples by putting all the
best ones on top) and also to do a bit of "live" bargaining. 
Both the character's actions and the player's eloquence would be
used as die roll modifiers for the PC and NPC in determining the
actual price of the item.

If one wants pure role-playing, then I strongly suggest the GM do
all the rolling and keep the actual numbers hidden from the
player(s). Players rolling dice for anything other than dice
games is not _real_ role-playing IMHO.


"Imagine if combat had been so well designed. "OK, you attack the
three ducks and the Death Lord. Your sword does 10 points of
damage, but you spent the day sharpening it, so now it
does..ummm..20. Roll your Fight skill for each opponent to see if
you kill them. Oh, the Death Lord has plate armour, so subtract
25% from that roll." What fun. Such scope for role-playing."

I think I have seen this very style of handling combat too many
times to count.  I have even seen it in RQ sessions..


"1)      A table of the common trade goods in my area, with
centres of origin and common destinations. From this, trade
routes and common cargoes can be extrapolated..."

Good suggestion. Of course, each area (whatever that means) will
need its own table.  And you might want a table for non-common
items as well. (As as PC trader, I would certainly want to work
with these, as the profit  potential is probably greater.) I
suggest you use "well known" rather than "common" and "not well-
known" rather than "uncommon". I tend to think of "common" items
as items in great supply and "uncommon" items as scarce.  But
some "uncommon" items (such peppercorns in medieval Europe?) may
be suffienctly well known for buyers to have a basic price in
mind.  


"2)      Buy/sell unit prices at the source of the goods, halfway
from it, and at the furthest point. There should be a base cost
below which the producers of the good will not go. Prices should
also fluctuate randomly, seasonally, and with campaign events
like wars."

As indicated in my thoughts below, I would prefer one "standard"
price which is modified by scarcity, distance from place-of-
origin, type of transport used, etc.


"3)      Unit weight for each trade good, and standard cart,
boat, and caravan costs and capacities. Cost of maintaining a
boat or caravan have to be included here (repair, feeding,
mercenaries)."

Does your campaign use precise measures in all things?  How about
measures of trade such as "per fish", "per handful", or "per
box"? (Honestly, that _is_ the same sized box I used last time! 
You did say 'handful'. Too bad my hand is larger than yours!)


Here are some of my suggestions:

1) Society uses bargaining in all (well, perhaps almost all)
   economic transactions. Therefore every normal person has the
   Bargain skill.

2) For gaming purposes, assume there is a "standard" price for
   items. (I think this price should _not_, well, perhaps usually
   _not_, be revealed to the gamers so that they can work on
   their role-playing.)

3) This "standard" price should normally vary +/- 5% to reflect
   local, minor problems such as spoilage, bad temper, mild   
   dislike, etc.
   
4) The "standard" price is set for the area in which that item is
   well known.

5) Bargaining over the price of a well-known item will see that
   item sold for a price between 80% and 120% of the "standard"
   price.

6) Bargaining over the price of a not well-known item will that
   item sold for a price between 20% and 500% of the "standard"
   price.  

7) Whether a an item is well-known or not well-known depends on
   the experience of the seller and the buyer. If the item is not
   well-known to the buyer and/or seller, treat it as not well
   -known. If the buyer knows about it and the seller doesn't,
   give the buyer an advantage by lowering the beginning asking
   price.

8) Scarcity of a well-known item adds 25% - 200% to an item's
   "standard" price.

9) Distance the item has been transported and type of transport
   add to an item's "standard" price. 
 
10) All (any) die rolls made by the NPC and PC should be rolled
    by the GM and should be hidden from the player(s). Let the
    players figure out if they have made a good deal.

11) The price of an object can be (is often?) paid in equivalent
    value of goods rather than in coin.

12) If the final price agreed is at great odds with the price
    initially expected by the NPC, then the GM should note this
    and have the NPC react accordingly. (Say, the last time I
    traded with you, there was no Issaries tarriff!)

13) Taxes are not extracted on particular transactions, but  
    periodically, based on the perceived wealth of the taxee.

For those GM's who want/need them, here are a couple of tables
for determining how to calculate a selling price (based on
assumptions 5 & 6 above. (Before you ask - No, I haven't refined
these tables, so take the values and work them as you will.)

Table 1.  Bargaining with Well-known items 

                      *Seller*
            Crit     Hit     Miss   Fumble   
*Buyer*
Crit        +/-5%   -10%     -15%    -20%
Hit         +10%    +/-5%    -10%    -15%
Miss        +15%    +10%     +/-5%   -10%
Fumble      +20%    +15%     +10%    +/-5%


Table 2.  Bargaining with Not-well-known items 

                                *Seller*
            Crit     Special  Hit     Miss   Special   Fumble   
*Buyer*
Crit        +/-5%    -10%    -25%    -50%    -65%      -80%
Special     +50%     +/-5%   -10%    -25%    -50%      -65%
Hit         +100%    +50%    +/-5%   -10%    -25%      -50%
Miss        +200%    +100%   +50%    +-5%    -10%      -25%
Special     +350%    +200%   +100%   +50%    +/-5%     -10%
Fumble      +500%    +350%   +200%   +100%   +50%      +/-5%


Well, hope this helps stimulate some constructive discussion...

- James

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From: keith.s.stevens@uwrf.edu
Subject: Look out! It's a newbee!
Message-ID: <199406032109.AA07054@enterprise.acc.uwrf.edu>
Date: 3 Jun 94 11:09:00 GMT
X-RQ-ID: 4358

Hello you all!  Well I guess its about time I write to you, since I've been
reading this for about 6 months now, though it hard to keep up since I only get
about once a week to read my news.  Anyways, I've built up a lot of questions
(and maybe I even remember some of them), but I'm not going to ask too many at
one time ( so that I can keep up with the responces ).

First I should should describe myself a little first.  I've only been playing
RPGs for about 3 years.  My first experience was a summer campaign of
Twighlight 2000 (where you learn that when there is a firefight, you RUN cause
you will be kill).  That fall a friend introduced me to RuneQuest, and have
played in 3 campaigns and ran one since then.  I have a few senerios (OK,
practically none, I can't find them here.  And when I do it's way to expencive
for me to buy).  I've never played in Gloranthia, and never plan on doing so.
My reason for this (if that is what you where asking yourself) is that I
beleive taht the players should never know more than the GM about the world
that they are in.

Anyways, question (1):   Someone recently asked about mechanics for playing a
gunslinger (I think, but I don't recall for sure).  Well, last year we had a
really interesting game.  The players were U.S. special forces solders that had
gotten 'dropped' into the GM's Runequest world.  We developed rules for that
sort of combat,including quickdraws, braced shots, cover & concealment
modifiers, and passive and active defences for missle fire.  And we had several
pistols, rifles, and grenades defined.  
   Imagine the consequnces of that
Sarge:  What the hell is that shimmering creature that's deflecting our
	bullets, and why does my hurt?
(A slarge with Prot 8 that just cast Disruption.  i.e. no concept of magic)

Would these stats be what you're looking for?

Question 2:  I've been trying to use RQ religions as much as possible, but the
only source I have is Gods of Gloranthia for this.  On this subject, I'm trying
to get a grasp of dwarves.  Their god (and only god) is the Maker, who is
signified with 2 statis runes.  Are their any other Gods that possess this
rune? 

Question 3:  I've heard a lot of people complain about the sorcery rules in
RQ3.  My first reaction is 'what are you taling about?' but then I realized
that is because I've never played runequest rules for sorcery.  I've only
played our own very of sorcery rules in runequest.  Instead of reading the
rules in the rulebook and interpreting them myself, I would like if someone
could summarize the rules and what is wrong with them.  WAIT don't  respond
yet.  I don't want a huge agument going on the digest again about what's wrong,
so if you could reply directly to me.  Then I can reply to the rest how we
seemed to ahve gotten around some of these problems.  I'm not saying that our
way is perfect, but it seems to work.  

Question 4:  I've vaguely remember hearing that their might be RQ4 playtest
rules available.  Who do I contact to attempt to get a peek at these rules, so
that I might be able in incorporate them.

final note:
I have quite a bit of things that a friend of mine made up for ruequest (well,
acquired from other people and modified himself, and modified by me for my use)
that I can probably pass on to you for your use.  But it depends on how slow it
is at work for me to type this stuff in.

Talk to you later,
Keith
EMAIL: Keith.S.Stevens@uwrf.edu