From: RuneQuest-Request@Glorantha.Holland.Sun.COM (RQ Digest Maintainer) To: RuneQuest@Glorantha.Holland.Sun.COM (Daily automated RQ-Digest) Reply-To: RuneQuest@Glorantha.Holland.Sun.COM (RuneQuest Daily) Subject: RuneQuest Daily, Sat, 11 Jun 1994, part 2 Sender: Henk.Langeveld@Holland.Sun.COM Content-Return: Prohibited Precedence: junk --------------------- From: klaus@diku.dk Subject: misc Message-ID: <199406100853.AA10628@rimfaxe.diku.dk> Date: 10 Jun 94 12:53:27 GMT X-RQ-ID: 4485 Visibility of magic """"""""""""""""""" Strangers in Prax gives the answer to the question about visibility of magic. Spririt and divine magic shows clearly as a colored glow (page 76), but can be concealed by scratching one's nose (page 14). Sorcery is invisible (page 76). Campaign worlds """"""""""""""" I recommend Harn. Game systems """""""""""" There have been some very negative remarks about harnmaster and rolemaster here. I have played and enjoyed both. Harnmaster is largely a RQ clone. Relatives """"""""" I don't think that the number of terms has a direct corelation to the importance of relatives. Danish has no words for 3rd, 4th, 5th etc. cousins, but many more words for closer relatives: moster mother's sister faster father's sister onkel man married to one of the above morbror mother's brother farbror father's brother tante woman married to one of the above f{ae}tter male cousin kusine female cousin mormor mother's mother morfar mother's father farmor father's mother farfar father's father bedstemor grandmother bedstefar grandfather halvf{ae}tter, grandf{ae}tter male second cousin halvkusine, grandkusine female second cousin ({ae} represents one letter) yet to us relatives are about as important as to the English. Klaus O K --------------------- From: jonas.schiott@vinga.hum.gu.se (Jonas Schiott) Subject: This and That Message-ID: <9406101317.AA02467@vinga.hum.gu.se> Date: 10 Jun 94 17:17:10 GMT X-RQ-ID: 4486 David: >Mike Dawson said >>About David Dunham's Campaign write-up >>REally good, even though it was about...initiation. > >While I can take credit for the writeup and being GM, Jonas Schiott sent me >the actual scenario. We have decided to make this scenario, "Growing Pains", electronically available to all askers. I don't want to post it here, as it's 130K or so. But I will happily e-mail it to anyone who wants it. Oh yes: though some of it _is_ about initiation, a lot is also about heroquesting and responsibility and all sorts of heavy stuff. Bill: >>Does anyone on this list know if the Tekumel mailing list is still active, >>and if so at what address? The one I tried was a year or so old, and it >>just bounced my query. > >As far as I know it is dead. Look up the alt.games.frp.tekumel newsgroup. A pity my local server doesn't carry news... >There is also a movement afoot to archieve the transcripts of this group >somewhere, but that hasn't been settled yet. Is there no archive of the dearly departed digest? Joerg: >Why not leave Illusion with Dormal, as the puppeteer connection >mentioned in RQ2 suggested, You mean Donandar, I presume. A good idea, IMO. ( Jonas Schiott ) ( Institutionen for Ide- och lardomshistoria ) ( Goteborgs Universitet ) --------------------- From: SYS_RSH%PV0A@hobbes.cca.rockwell.com (The Lotus Jukebox) Subject: Huh? Message-ID: <01HDDCHT49AQ8WWWUG@hobbes.cca.rockwell.com> Date: 10 Jun 94 03:20:15 GMT X-RQ-ID: 4487 Joerg: Why not leave Illusion with Dormal, as the puppeteer connection mentioned in RQ2 suggested, and leave Eurmal as the source of Disorder, only using illusion? Me: Dormal???? --Scott --------------------- From: swj@liverpool.ac.uk (Mr S.W. Jones) Subject: Sam's Campaign. Message-ID: <199406101321.OAA02015@uxf.liv.ac.uk> Date: 10 Jun 94 15:21:26 GMT X-RQ-ID: 4488 Sam, You said you'd send on copies of your campaign write-up to all comers, however the message is getting bounced. Oh, I'd love a copy by the way. -Simon. --------------------- From: gkca16@udcf.gla.ac.uk (S.Phillips) Subject: Let me through - I'm an Eurmal Message-ID: <14611.199406101544@lenzie.cent.gla.ac.uk> Date: 10 Jun 94 17:44:17 GMT X-RQ-ID: 4489 Greetings from Sam. Alex: >Varmandi: KoS seems to imply they retook Tarkalor's keep, and possibly >some of Ormthane Valley. Plus some of the land north of the Swan River, >and probably Redbird and at least some of the Brambleberry Hills. I play that the Malani hold redbird. Don't ask me why - I think I *did* have a reason. Darned if I can think of it now, though. >> Eurmal is definitely a Murderer. No question. Who unleashed Death? > >Was Oppenheimer, then? An Eurmal? Without a doubt. He found death and passed it on. Big laugh. >If Eurmal was a Murderer, there should be a myth of him killing someone/thing. >I don't doubt there is, I just want to know what it is. Frankly, if he >had hold of it all that non-time, he'd have been having a very off non-day >if he hadn't _used_ it himself. I see Eurmal as an "egger on" than a murderer. Anyone can kill someone - what's the fun ion that. A trickster would try to get someone to murder someone else. The bigger the challange the better. I could see them causing big fights. Wars even - just for a laugh.. "things were getting boring round here". I also see Eurmal as a ghoul. "Let me through - I'm a ghoul!"... Enjoying the disorder surrounding accidents and the like. Nay, worshipping. Perhaps such events of random disorder are holy times to the Eurmal. High Holy days could be - whenever the next big disaster strikes.. I have received so many requests for my Sartar Notes that I am going to have to go home and rethink. They are not in readily E-mailable form. I could try getting them into one, or getting them looking nice and posting them to whoever sends a SAE. Await further orders. This message will self destruct in 10 secs.. Anyway, just a wee posting today. Got to go and see the bank manager and taste carpet fluff and shoe polish. He's a hard man ;-) can anyone lend me a tenner? Cheers! --Sam x. --------------------- From: Argrath@aol.com Subject: Moonbroth; alien babies Message-ID: <9406101210.tn1050574@aol.com> Date: 10 Jun 94 16:10:02 GMT X-RQ-ID: 4490 Malcolm: Call Mother is way too powerful for a spirit spell. 1 point divine maybe, or 2 point. That Varton Mamigon must be a very exceptional Oasis Dweller to have the will to court a lunar priestess. Most (all) of the male Oasis Folk would be too scared to do that, or indeed anything involving danger. Yeah, he's headman, but he must be a part- nomad who was left here by his tribe (maybe he's lame, or they had to flee the Lunars?). You've got two different guys listed as Oasis Folk headman. _Two_ inns? Even one stretches my credulity. If people liked Malcolm's Moonbroth, I could post some of my notes on Cam's Well. Re: Alien babies Mystic Musk Ox, please tell Paul Honigmann that if he lines the inside of his hat with aluminum foil, the orbital mind control lasers won't be able to affect him. For best protection, line the inside AND outside. ;-) Martin --------------------- From: niwe@ppvku.ericsson.se (Nils Weinander) Subject: Patchwork posting Message-ID: <9406101617.AA01283@ppvku.ericsson.se> Date: 10 Jun 94 20:17:27 GMT X-RQ-ID: 4491 Nils Weinander writing. swj@liverpool.ac.uk (Mr S.W. Jones) in daily June 08: > On a final note I have a unofficial write-up of the Donander >cult (it needed one) if anyones interested - or I can pop it on the Digest. I would like to see it on the Daily. _____ Sandy in daily June 09: >Nils, defending Europe, sez: >>Ever been to Sweden? If you travel along a road in northern >>Scandinavia, you loose any notions about over-populated Europe. > I was partially joking. But in any case, who predicts a war >in Sweden? You've managed to keep well out of it this whole century. >For that matter, compared to parts of the U.S. (or Australia), Sweden >is _densely_ populated. Here you have a land smaller than Montana, >but with a heck of a lot more population. I forgot the :-), :-). But, just for argument's sake: southern Sweden is densely populated in comparison, the northern half isn't. As for wars we have been fortunate enough to stay out of war this century and the last. _____ Malcolm's Moonbroth writeup in daily June 09: Great job! >Second, I would like to hear >comments about it. What did you like? What did you hate? How is it >different from your Moonbroth? What would you change? I liked it a lot. I have only two minor gripes: the names of the lunar people there don't sound lunar to me and given the scarcity of forest in Prax I think the walls of the fort should be made of stone and adobe, with no wooden palisade. _____ Paul Honigmann in daily June 09: > What struck me was that Roman Empire was affected by the success of the >Chinese, generations before and thousands of miles away. Neither empire knew >where the Huns went / came from. It struck me that if you were running a >Kralorelan, Pentan or Redlands based campaign you could use this as background >politics driving the nomads to invade the Redlands. That's a thought. The Kralorelans drove the trolls out of Ignorance, they went north, pressing the Pentans westward etc. Also very interesting ideas on lunars and insanity! _____ PMichaels@aol.com on gargoyles in daily June 09: Another great piece. I really like the copper gargoyle leaders becoming Copper Sands. > And, while I'm asking, to what degree do >you all think gargoyles are "alive"? (ie. do >they eat meat/veggies, do they breathe, do >they breed?) Personally, I don't think they >breed. Nor do I think they age. If they eat, >it's rock and minerals. For some reason >though, I think they breathe. If they have such needs a diet of sand, water and air seems appropriate. I don't think they breed. _____ Loren in daily June 09: >Summing up, it seems to me that Loskalm is the land of Plato's >Republic, where everything works perfectly, not a fantasy version of >Mussolini's Italy. Then there are the people calling Platon a proto-fascist... _____ Joerg in daily June 10: >Nils, why did you let the uppity storm boy kill Yang Long, and not >Yelm, a well known figure in Kralori myth? And what did happen to >Kralorela after Yelm had been slain? I love the expression 'uppity storm boy'! It seems I forgot the {comment} on Yang Long in the text. Yang Long _is_ Yelm. I thought that since Yelm is the name of the sun god in Dara Happa and Dragon Pass, Ehilm the old Ralian name, Somash the name in Teshnos etc. he should have a Kralorelan name in Kralorela, so I came up with Yang Long, the sun dragon. I have similar names for the other Sky deities: Dayzatar is Tien Long, the celestial dragon, Polaris is Shing Long, the star dragon etc. I might be dead wrong giving the sky gods draconic identities, but until convinced that this is so I kind of like the idea. As to what happened in Kralorela after Yelm/Sun Dragon's death, my theory is that Yelm passed on the empire to other emperors long before and that the dragon magic brought to use for the empire by Daruda protected Kralorela so well during the Darkness that the empire survived a lot more undamaged than most other lands. >Metsyla was a deity of light as well, not unlike Antirius a portion >of Yelm keeping watch over part of his realm, and like Antirius formed >prior to Yelm's death. RQ Companion states (top of p.9) that "soon >dragons guarded the Light of the East" during Daruda's reign, during >the Storm Ages. But this source also states that Daruda faded to death >when he witnessed Yelm's death. That reference is mighty interesting. I'll have to look it up. The Antirius parallell is also interesting. I began thinking about Kralorela, Teshnos and the East Isles before GRoY came out, so I haven't really tried integrating its stuff, but read it as a historical writing rather than mythlogical "reality". A question about Teshnos: its early history, pre-Dawn and first age is REALLY sketchy. Anyone got any info/ideas/wild hunches? _____ I add my voice to those who want to take a look at Sam's Sartar campaign stuff. Material for a Digest or three? _____ That's it for today, no Red Tiger stuff I'm afraid. /Nils W --------------------- From: jacobus@sonata.cc.purdue.edu (Bryan J. Maloney) Subject: Loskalm and religious dissidence Message-ID: <9406101856.AA24336@sonata.cc.purdue.edu> Date: 10 Jun 94 08:56:24 GMT X-RQ-ID: 4493 Here's my take on how a Loskalmi lord would handle a bunch of peasants who want to worship Ernalda: First, he would send a wizard around to instruct these well-intentioned, but misguided, folk on the difference between true religion and barbarian spirit worship. Ernalda, after all, is just a big spirit, not a true God in the fully transcendent sense of the Invisible God. After all, the fact that she grants spells to her followers and helps them out is nothing more than what spirits do for barbarians and their wierd shamans, isn't it? It's all just a matter of scale. Worshipping Ernalda is about as absurd as worshipping your own hoe. If you want more fertile land, my children, till it in the love of the Invisible God and work it well. Do not resort to easy paths with hidden costs and unthinkable results. Remember, Ernalda is just a big spirit, not a God. There is only one God and Malkion is is prophet. The Invisible God loves you and forgives you for your misunderstanding. Let us pray, my children. If the peasants persist--calling for an Ernalda "priestess" and setting up "shrines" or "temples" to this spirit, then the Lord is permitted, nay, he is REQUIRED, to take sterner measures. A proper Lord would first simply let it be known that worship of the barbarian spirit will not be permitted, for the good of the souls of the community. If the peasants persist, the Lord is then forced to undertake direct action, probably arresting the ringleaders and turning them over for trial. If they are fortunate, the ringleaders may be given the opportunity to repent their errors and return to the bosom of the Invisible God. If they are recalcitrant, they must be eradicated as a threat to their fellows' well-being and to society. A virtuous Lord, who truly follows the traditions and laws of Loskalm, will do his best to avoid this extreme situation, and would much rather cajole and convince his peasants back onto the correct path. This is not to say that there are no hot-tempered rulers in Loskalm, who go too far too fast, but such behavior is not considered to be the proper way of doing things. Thus, dissent is tolerated in Loskalm, so long as it does not go too far. All are permitted to be in error, until they have been properly corrected. (Gee, this is pretty much how nearly ALL human societies work, no? It's all just a matter of how much "error" a particular society will tolerate in particular areas. For USA society, substitute "underage sex" for "religion" to get a similar response. For Liberal USA society, substitute "anything that isn't politically correct" for "religion".) --------------------- From: gadbois@cs.utexas.edu (David Gadbois) Subject: Racoons Message-ID: <19940610190901.2.GADBOIS@CLIO.MCC.COM> Date: 10 Jun 94 09:09:00 GMT X-RQ-ID: 4494 From: joe@sartar.toppoint.de (Joerg Baumgartner) Date: 9 Jun 94 13:24:25 GMT X-RQ-ID: 4469 Does anybody know why raccoons featured so greatly in pre-God Learner mythology? They are one of the prime examples of bad God Learning. Huh. The only mention of racoons that I recall was a one-liner in the background section of G:CotHW that mentions how the God Learners killed the racoon demon guarding Tusunimmi Ford and, as a joke, replaced it with Mr. Racoon, who had previously been protecting Dr. Rock from the greedy Raven of the Sunset Isles. Lance Purple took this idea and ran with it, creating a insanely cool heroquest to recover the racoon demon from the City on the Edge of Doom so that Mr. Racoon could return to his rightful place. Where else do racoons come in? Personally, I can't stand the nasty critters. The big 20 kilo ones we have here make real pests of themselves terrorizing cats and getting into trash cans and attics. --David Gadbois --------------------- From: vladt@interaccess.com (Kevin Rose) Subject: DI out of temples Message-ID:Date: 10 Jun 94 12:26:18 GMT X-RQ-ID: 4495 Sandy: I seem to remember Greg wrote a fairly long article dealing with DI in wyrm fotnotes way back when. I don't have the article handy, but the relavant gist was that you could DI out of an other gods temple, but not into another gods temple. (I think it was a "Rune Fix" article.) Kevin Rose --------------------- From: alex@dcs.gla.ac.uk (Alex Ferguson) Subject: Scotland, not Sartar. Message-ID: <9406110114.AA25662@keppel.dcs.gla.ac.uk> Date: 11 Jun 94 01:14:44 GMT X-RQ-ID: 4496 Sandy: > Hmm. Never heard of a horticulture drawback being > insufficient sun rather than insufficient rain. But I guess Scotland > IS incredibly far north -- after all, all of the continental U.S. is > far south of it. Which is why, I suppose, the perennial problem in > OUR bad lands is lack of rain instead. For most crops, the problem is either Too Cold, or Insufficient Sunlight. Too much rain as such isn't likely to be a problem, as such, though we get a lot of it, and _all (bloody) year_. (Some (strange) people grow (small) cacti in their gardens.) > You can't grow orchards in Scotland? If Sam said this, he was obviously under the influence of exam-induced endorphins. I've an apple tree in my back garden, which is one of the wettest places this side of Bergen. > I always thought > that orchards were an easier thing to grow than an annual crop such > as corn. Indeed. Don't quote me on what grains are grown in Scotland, but I think it's limited to (relatively) small scale wheat, oats, and barley. > If Clearwine isn't made from grapes, then what? It is grapes, I'm sure it says so explicitly. Of course, people in Scotland _do_ make wine, from all sorts of other things, but that's by the by. Roderick Robertson: > Lots of sheep only since the Highland clearances you mean. C'mon > Sam, you must have seen those great shaggy Highland cattle. Used to be > the foremost export of Scotland. Of course, once the English decided > that Sheep don't rebell every 5 or 20 years... And cattle do? The clearances replaced crofts, not cows, with sheep. (There are indeed still cows in Scotland, but now mostly Frisian dairy herds.) Not for nothing is Mutton Pie one of our national (heart-failure- inducing) dishes. > > >the ground's so steep a cow'd roll off > > -Arf! Thats why haggises have one pair of legs longer than the other.. > Haggis? it's everything a civilized person feeds to the dog. Liver, > lungs, intestines and oatmeal. Stuff it in a stomach, boil or steam > until it all runs together, and season to taste. :-P We know, we're perpetrating an Old Joke... > As far as someone else's question about using boys to herd, it takes > a heap of boys to do it. Absolutely. Dogs have more stamina than people (even than Small People), are faster, especially over rough ground, and can grin at sheep in a more menacing, hungry way. Some people do herd sheep without dogs, but popular alternatives are using a motorbike (not usable in Sartar due to risk of being hung as a time-travelling God Learner); or from horseback, which is likely to be more expensive, and is going to be popular only where horses are actually bred, rather than imported. If the ground is hilly, riding becomes less fun, and if your sheep are on the Upper Starfire Ridge, forget it. (At least if said ridges are anything like the Laing Craigs, my local large basaltic plug.) On the other hand, herding cattle, or horses, with dogs is much trickier, and is going to need fairly tame animals, or a Very Big Dog. > Also note that, at least in Scotland, the cattle and sheep tended > to scatter when startled, instead of staying in a clump. Independent > little brutes! Only, I think, if you startle them so much they forget to look where the others have gone. They tend to graze somewhat apart, and then drift back together then they become Concerned. Keen viewers of One Man and His Dog will recall the many small disasters of The Shed (splitting a single sheep off from the small group being herded). Alex. --------------------- From: alex@dcs.gla.ac.uk Subject: Malkioni classes/castes Message-ID: <9406110149.AA25678@keppel.dcs.gla.ac.uk> Date: 11 Jun 94 01:49:01 GMT X-RQ-ID: 4497 Graeme Lindsell: > Alex Ferguson writes: > >Female caste stricture: do what hubby/daddy/nearest upwind male authority > >tells you to. > Very likely. It's been pointed out to me (by John Hughes and Paul Reilly) > that if there is a single female caste, then it's a class, not caste system. > According to John, the definition of caste is an "endogenous (i.e. in-marrying) > occupation based social structure". Hrm, this sounds _pretty_ picky to me. By this definition, the Brithini don't have a caste system, which is hokey. Firstly, I think the term isn't used so strictly on Earth: the south Asian "Islamic caste system" (used by subcontinental Moslems, based on the (endogamous) Hindic castes system) isn't (strictly) endogamous. Furthermore, the definition obviously didn't anticipate the sexes being assigned to _different_ castes, which makes the definition fail even for systems which are entirely caste-like, such as a hypothetical Malkioni caste system with four male and four female castes, each only able to marry one of the other. On the other hand, I agree that the Hresoli system is more class-like, given the possibility of social movement. > > Also, Alex gives many forms of execution, a wonder to behold and a joy for > >any wide ranging party. I didn't say this, but I applaud the (lack of) taste of whomsoever did. ;-) > This alternative scenario explains a great deal IMO: why the > West seemed to be Brithini at the Dawn (Hrestol is referred to > once as a Talar), why the Rokarian attempt to return to pre-Hrestol > Malkionism is basically recreating the Brithini with Solace. Hang on, is "Talar" only a Brithini title? I thought the sects used the same titles, but perhaps I need a remedial course here. But at any rate, what else would one call Hrestol, since any other caste terminology couldn't have been invented yet, his own (if any) being the earliest alternative. > In this scenario, it's Hrestol's revelation that > breaks caste strictures and causes aging, not Malkion's. Woo... Is there a reason to blame either? I think I see the logic, but would any sect (other than the Brithini, natch) go for this? > It's even possible that Malkion said nothing about immortality (ageing > may not have been a big problem that far back in Godtime). Malkion arrived after Death, so I tend to believe that even if no Brithini/ Malkioni had died to this point, they became aware of the possibility. I tend to think Zzabar had "invented" immortality at this point, and Malkion came along to quibble with his methods. Alex.