From: RuneQuest-Request@Glorantha.Holland.Sun.COM (RQ Digest Maintainer) To: RuneQuest@Glorantha.Holland.Sun.COM (Daily automated RQ-Digest) Reply-To: RuneQuest@Glorantha.Holland.Sun.COM (RuneQuest Daily) Subject: RuneQuest Daily, Mon, 13 Jun 1994, part 2 Sender: Henk.Langeveld@Holland.Sun.COM Content-Return: Prohibited Precedence: junk --------------------- From: alex@dcs.gla.ac.uk Subject: God Plane surf's up! Message-ID: <9406111120.AA26301@keppel.dcs.gla.ac.uk> Date: 11 Jun 94 11:20:22 GMT X-RQ-ID: 4507 Joe Lannom: > The above brings an interesting image to mind. With Arachne Solara's > involvment in the compromise, perhaps she really does act like a spider. When > her web is disturbed, she progresses towards the source of the movements and > catches the 'bug' that is entangled in the web. Heh, heh. I like this idea, particularly in connection with the idea that the nexus of the web is the Compromise: this makes it much harder to change the keys events leading up to the Compromise itself, as opposed to some brigandry in the Lesser Darkness, say. And why one can't go beyond it, into Time (without getting eaten). > Since she's in the center of the web, the root of it, and most heroquests > would probably occur towards the outer/middle areas I'm not so sure the outside is safe, either; here, the risk would be Chaos/the Void/the Silence/whatever your favourite pre-existance with its built-in horrors is. Alex. --------------------- From: alex@dcs.gla.ac.uk Subject: Fact Checking. Yup, it's a fact. Message-ID: <9406111251.AA26515@keppel.dcs.gla.ac.uk> Date: 11 Jun 94 12:51:11 GMT X-RQ-ID: 4508 I alarm Mark S. c/o Tom Yates thusly: > >On the third hand, note that Loskalm had clearly annexed part > >of Junora long before anyone had even heard of the Kingdom of > >War. > Clearly!?! Could you please quote your sources? G:G,CotHW:2. The description of the territory held by the Kingdom of Loskalm. The land linking the two Loskalmi penisuli is part of Junora. "But!", I hear you all cry, "Junora isn't a unitary political entity, merely a geographical area, part of which is _naturally_ subject to the Kingdom of Loskalm!" Doubtless the very words of Sir Mertiam as the Order of the Swallow marched in. (To add a bit of equivocation, I don't recall if N. and S. Loskalm were separated during the ban, so one might argue this was "counted" as part Loskalm when the ban began, so one could imagine it'd been held ever since the Kingdom invaded and annexed all of Junora (and most of the rest of the Janube valley) a long, long time ago.) > I've only > heard that: "Loskalm led in the exploration of the new Fronela > ... Yet the kingdom has exhibited no imperial intent and has > scrupulously respected the territorial claims of nearby lands." Anyone care to run a book of the boundaries of Loskalm in the near future? ;-) (Junora will "apply for membership" of the Kingdom, the Kingdom of War will be annexed, the Janube city-states will be made "protectorates" to protect them from the Nasty Jonatings; speaking purely hypothetically.) > Someone else says: >>> There is no way to DI out if the execution is performed on Sacred >>>Ground of a deity not of the character's creed. > Alex responds: > >Not true, actually. Sandy ordains: > Ever since RQ I, Divine Intervention has been forbidden when > in ground holy to another god than your own. Chaosium's house > campaign practiced this rule, and so did everyone I know. Why do you > say, "Not true", Alex? RQ3. Perhaps you should join the RQ2 Return to Rightness crusade, Sandy? ;-) In case there's a flame-war in the wind, I'm fairly agnostic about this rule, I'm just here to quibble. Joerg: > Where did the Lunars obtain their copy of Zzabur's Blue Book? Wrote their own, I should think. Devin Cutler: > Also, I don't see the fact that Glorantha is filled > with "religious fanatics" as a bad thing. In fact, it lends a great deal of > fanatic tension to the whole. And it gets away from the D&Dism of "Yeah, I'm > a cleric of XXXXX. Worship? What do you mean worship?" It's getting a bit close to the converse D&Dism of Follow the Rules, or Your God Manifests and Splatters You, though. Certainly it's nice if characters are played to have the beliefs they "`historically'" should have. One could argue that's the whole point of having "provably real" magic in Glorantha; otherwise, all the latter day cynic players would spend all day arguing about whether Orlanth was real, whether someone's character being saved from death by the poison dart hitting this clan brooch instead of his throat was Divine Intervention or just a handy bit of luck. Whereas, Orlanthi, even without Reproducable Under Scientific Conditions magic to convince them, would just be appropriately and reverently thankful. > "Not unlike the Malkioni, no?" > The Malkioni are an ENTIRELY different case, and I have never had a problem > with them as they are being portrayed. To wit, that the Loskalmi are (un?)comfortably one of the most devout, not to say rabidly fanatic (but in a good way, Sandy) of all Gloranthan societies? Glad to have you on board. > Nevertheless, I submit that they do display whole magnitudes lower, since > they do not witness healings on the order of, say, that healing spring > written up in an early TOTRM (I think it was issue 3 or 4). Wounds do not > close up at Lourdes in a matter of seconds as you watch. *** Warning -- deleted text -- upcoming ellipses!! **** [...] "Instant Magical Healing? Hrm. Obviously just a version of Treat Wound speeded up by demonic pacts. His soul will be forfeit." Magic is a _fact_ _of_life_ in Glorantha, not (just) a symptom of theistic worship, much less of unquestioning, monolithic theistic faith. > First of all, someone's bad is another person's good. If I worship Ragnalar, > I am good if a rape people. So there is really no such thing as a Bad God. That was rather the point of the Ironic Capitals, doncha know. If magic is an argument for faith, then it's an argument for "faith" in _everything_ which manifests magic, whether "evil" god, spirit, demon, sorceror, or whatever. > "It does? Most afterlives aren't even (claimed to be) _in_ the spirit > world" > This is news to me. Glad to be of service. > I preasumed that the Cat Spirits and the Plant spirits, > and the other Spirits mentioned in a Different Worlds article implied that > most spirits were the deceased cult members serving their god by becoming > allied. Those are "shamanic type" afterlives. It's demonstrable that some form of spirit survives death (at least in such cults), and is contactable a la Daka Fal worship, but this doesn't seem like a cast iron guarantee of survival of the individual soul, or personality, to me. Could be just a form of psychic residue of the individual (and his magic, natch). Since shamanic cults are only loosely associated with particular gods, and obedience to their strictures, this is not a devoutness-inducing argument of much strength. You don't have to be a Good Plant to get to be a plant spirit, or at least, only in the mostali sense of the term. Most theistic afterlives are on the Godplane, or Heroplane. You can go there (if you just happen to be a gut-renching powerful HeroQuester), but you'll have a hard time contacting and communicating with some particular individual there. Even if you do, Nick Brooke will tell you it was all entirely subjective when you get back, so who's to believe you? Mind you, if you performed a successful LBQ to _bring back_ someone from the dead, that'd be moderately impressive. But it's been done, what, three times? in Time, none of which were to resurrect some long-dead individual. (I think? Or was Talor a dead chap?) > The simple fact that any schmo off of the street cannot walk up to an altar > to Babeester Gor and get Axe Trance is a sign that a deity is involved. It's a sign that Babeester Gor temple guards have Sharp Axes. Alex. --------------------- From: alex@dcs.gla.ac.uk (Alex Ferguson) Subject: Rules, schmrules Message-ID: <9406111328.AA26601@keppel.dcs.gla.ac.uk> Date: 11 Jun 94 13:28:12 GMT X-RQ-ID: 4509 Do initiates (of some generic cult) have any access at all to the reusable rune magic of their associates? Is it simply "restricted" in the way own- religion RM may be, or is it prohibited/not available? What is the "definition" of a sorceror for the purposes of the Generic Cult Initation Requirement? Is it: anyone who knows any sorcery; an apprentice; an adept; or a magus? Alex. --------------------- From: MOBTOTRM@vaxc.cc.monash.edu.au Subject: Way Down South... Message-ID: <01HDFMHJX05Q938O4R@vaxc.cc.monash.edu.au> Date: 12 Jun 94 09:29:19 GMT X-RQ-ID: 4510 G'day Everyone, ______________________ The Atmosphere of Life Sandy asks: > What are you talking about? Where can I read about >Rahmuktara? Until I get further info, could be. Almost anything could >be south of the Sea of Worms. Who would go there? A wooden ship finds >it impassable -- spend too much time in that sea, and your hull is >riddled with shipworms to the point that the vessel literally falls >apart around your ears. (This happened on Earth, too.) From Tales #11, Pamaltela: Visitor's Guide - Major Regions: Rahmuktara "Known to its human inhabitants as the "Atmosphere of Life", Rahmuktara is an isolated region of hospitable land cut off from the outside world by impassible barriers. Only the dwarves of Slon in their concrete ships can traverse the boiling Worm Sea to get there, and they exert a covert but dominating influence over the land" [p.30] That's it, I'm afraid (for now). We received a very long article detailing region from John Lawson, who I don't think still has e-mail access (you out there John?). I spent some time turning what John had come up with into a WoG-like format, and John wrote some scenario material to go with it. Overall, it's really good, imaginative and original stuff. The Rahmuktarans have an Aztec sort of flavour, but John's mythology is original and very creative (though I must admit some of the friends I try TALES submissions out on said that because Rahmuktara is so distant, so isolated and so unusual, it didn't have the "Gloranthan" flavour they were used to - though this was pre-issue #11!). However, despite my keeness for it, in the end we decided not to publish it in TALES #11 as Rahmuktara runs about 16 pages. Maybe it will appear some time later, if not in TALES, perhaps in Codex or RQ Adventures? By the way, Sandy's right about wooden ships not coping down there. The dwarves of Slon get there in concrete ships, though John claims the reason why the wooden ships wouldn't survive is because the water that far down south in the Worm Sea is actually *boiling*! ___________________ Visibility of Magic klaus@diku.dk writes: >Strangers in Prax gives the answer to the question about visibility >of magic. Spririt and divine magic shows clearly as a colored glow >(page 76), but can be concealed by scratching one's nose (page 14). >Sorcery is invisible (page 76). Mike D's p.76 description of Arlaten "...suddenly radiant in multi-layered sheets of soft white light" at sunset is very evocative. Note that on p.14, I actually consider Krogar to be actually using the Orlanth divine spell "Wind Words" to send the secret messages, not the spirit spell Mindspeech, regardless of what the spell descriptions for each might say. In an Air Temple on a holy day, this might be an easy spell for a Wind Lord-priest like Krogar to cast surruptitiously. ___________________________________________________ Top Seven Magi You'd Least Like to be Apprenticed to: Making a hit list, got any suggestions? Here's one: 1. Magnotoglist the Eternal, Stygian wizard of Ralios: ...after labouring for him for many years, Etzil the Gormless discovered his master was merely an illusion of long duration. Cheers! MOB --------------------- From: MOBTOTRM@vaxc.cc.monash.edu.au Subject: Gargoyle Art Message-ID: <01HDFO45MM0I93C7ZD@vaxc.cc.monash.edu.au> Date: 12 Jun 94 10:17:19 GMT X-RQ-ID: 4511 G'day all, 'Cos there's been some talk about gorgoyles on the Daily lately, and 'cos people have been asking for some meaty material instead of back 'n forth academic discourse over scholarly quibbles (I'm an occasional offender here), I have dredged up this article from way back in Tales #4: _______________________________ Art of Glorantha: Vivisculpture By MOB Vivisculpture is the latest artistic rage to tickle the jaded palates of the effete Lunar nobility. Sculptors are tempted by the huge sums offered to discard their usual materials - marble, granite and sandstone - and take up the ultimate media: a living gargoyle. Vivisculptors take a living gargoyle and, using the traditional tools and instruments of their craft, shape the creature's stony hide into the likeness of their subject. The gargoyle is then carefully posed and killed. A complicated drying, glazing and firing process ensures the stone-like corpse is preserved for eternity. Many of the best examples of this artform are of course sequestered in the palaces and mansions of the elite. However, one of the finest vivisculptured works remains on public display in the forum of Raibanth, Silver Shadow. A massive equestrian work (the wyvern mount being carved from a huge, winged gargoyle; the rider, from one smaller and better-proportioned), the piece shows the famed Lunar General Alingans Wulinor, who led his legions to splendid defeat in the Building Wall Battle (1605 S.T.). This work was commissioned by Wulinor's widow, and was executed by acclaimed sculptor Khameron Malalas, one of the first exponents of the artform. Another work worthy of inspection is a spectacular female nude in the Imperial Museum of Theophany in Mirin's Cross, Holay. The untitled work was originally intended to be of the Red Goddess herself, but this was opposed on unspecified religious grounds by Icilius Overholy, General Priestess of the Provincial Church. Desp ite his obvious talent in the medium, the artist, Rogan Josh, has vowed never to work in vivisculpture again. With a characteristic decadence all their own, the debauchees of House Waxxmoon, first family of Dorkath in Darjiin, have taken the fad one step further, and claimed this refinement as their own. "Living statues" are their innovation, and other connoisseurs are literally panting to get their hands on House Waxxmoon's master-sculptor, Lorenzo Ducat. Ducat, a heretic dwarf, does not kill his creations. Instead, he trains them to strike a series of delicately-poised stances a sculptor working in traditional materials could not hope to emulate. (A recent private showing of Ducat's latest series, cunningly likened on certain members of the Waxxmoon family, was praised by the cognoscenti for its combination of stunning verisimilitude and elegant obscenity.) Recently, an iconoclastic "Cult of Freedom" has been established in Peloria which has vowed to destroy all examples of vivisculpture. Adherents claim that the artform is the pinnacle of slavery, and only by destroying the sculptures will the souls of the gargoyles trapped within be released. These fanatics have yet to express an opinion on the more recent innovation of 'living statues". Unsurprisingly, slave dealers in the Heartlands are finding it increasingly harder to cope with the demand for gargoyles. Once considered useful primarily as a novelty in the arena, a well- proportioned gargoyle may fetch perhaps ten-times the price of just a few years ago. One of the rare wingless gargoyles might fetch even more, because they are much easier to sculpt (the wings have to be carefully removed from the normal gargoyle species). Lately, particularly in Darjiin, slave dealers have taken to training their gargoyles to do simple poses, in the hope that they might catch the eye of Lor enzo Ducat or his buyers. The dull-witted gargoyle is a difficult beast to train, and often the sight of slave dealers putting their stock through their paces is an amusing spectacle for the crowd. GM Notes: With the current dire shortage of gargoyles in the Heartlands, an excellent way to a quick profit is go gargoyle-hunting. Slavery is a legal and socially-acceptable practise in the Empire, but adventurers will now probably have to go beyond its borders to find gargoyles of any kind (unless they try to steal them from another dealer). Gargoyles are typically found in mountainous regions, and much of the Lunar supply comes from the Rockwoods. Slave caravans have been recently disrupted on their way to market, as members of the Cult of Freedom seek to liberate the gargoyle captives and save them from their cruel fate. Profiteers are advised to remember that the whilst the tastes of the Lunar upper classes remain characteristically decadent, they are also notoriously fickle, and how long the craze will continue to prosper is anyone's guess. Additional Note: Of course, in the four years since I wrote this, I'm sure Vivisculpture has now become incredibly passe among the jaded gentry of the Heartlands. However, I'm sure upstart parvenu like King Bolthor of Bilini are currently spending vast amounts on it, being as they are several years behind current fashion trends. I wonder what's currently all the rage in the Heartland salons, this season? Heard it's "Living Mosiacs" made from steamrollered gargoyles, but I could be wrong... ____________________________________________ Another Magi for young Apprentices to Avoid: 2. Amorous Freddi Lush, Galvosti magus of Daran: ...avoid his carnal advances - he tends to use the Tap spell to prolong his vigor at these times. Cheers MOB --------------------- From: gadbois@cs.utexas.edu (David Gadbois) Subject: Re: Pictures Message-ID: <199406111840.NAA12869@peaches.cs.utexas.edu> Date: 11 Jun 94 08:40:15 GMT X-RQ-ID: 4512 From: Ana@fenix.fipnet.fi (Antti_Heiskanen) Date: 11 Jun 94 09:26:18 GMT X-RQ-ID: 4498 I have finally succesfully uploaded my Glorantha pictures to Berkeley's FTP site. Hey, the pictures are way cool. Joe Bob says check 'em out. Caladraland looks like a much grimmer place than I had imagined (I had pictured something more Hawaiian), but the barrenness makes a lot of sense. But now we have to retcon in an expalnation of how the Lodrili eke out a living there. Any ideas? I do not recognize the rendering tech you used. Did you start with an existing image? Or do them from scrath? Do tell. --David Gadbois