From: RuneQuest-Request@Glorantha.Holland.Sun.COM (RQ Digest Maintainer)
To: RuneQuest@Glorantha.Holland.Sun.COM (Daily automated RQ-Digest)
Reply-To: RuneQuest@Glorantha.Holland.Sun.COM (RuneQuest Daily)
Subject: RuneQuest Daily, Wed, 15 Jun 1994, part 3
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From: alex@dcs.gla.ac.uk (Alex Ferguson)
Subject: Faith, Hope, and Glorantha.
Message-ID: <9406142124.AA18845@hawaii.dcs.gla.ac.uk>
Date: 14 Jun 94 21:24:32 GMT
X-RQ-ID: 4580
I aspire:
> " Certainly it's nice if
> characters are played to have the beliefs they "`historically'" should
> have. "
Devin Cutler:
> My point has often been that "historical" comparisons are bunk, since
> Glorantha is so different from Earth.
I didn't mean Earth "historical", I meant Gloranthan "historical", hence
all the multiple quotes. From reading KoS, for example, one would not
immediately conclude the Orlanthi are a people for whom magic necessarily
"works", so much as they are a culture who _believe_ it does. As did many
Earthly cultures.
And I know that's your alleged point, that's why I'm disagreeing with you.
> " But it's [LBQing] been done, what, three times?
> in Time, none of which were to resurrect some long-dead individual. (I
> think? Or was Talor a dead chap?)"
> Resurrection is done every day in Glorantha, implying that, at the very
> least, one's soul does not fall into oblivion as an Atheist might believe on
> Earth. The mere fact that there is some sort of provable afterlife is enough
> to separate Gloranthan belief from Terran faith.
Resurrection has strict time limits, and must be done _before_ someone
goes to their afterlife (or not). Hence bringing back someone _after_
this is a totally different matter.
> "It's a sign that Babeester Gor temple guards have Sharp Axes."
> Obviously, but even were the guards to be gone, the man off of the street
> still could not kneel down and say "Hey, I want an Axe Trance". Babs has
> something (nay, everything) to say about it.
Since this is such a big, not to say insurmountable "if", your citation of
this as Gloranthan Fact leaves much to be desired. All that we actually
know to be required to get Axe Trance is that one be a Babs Initiate (or a
suitable initiate), and that the local temple go for the idea. That She's
sitting around in the GP personally vetting each application in detail is
just One Man's Opinion.
Alex.
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From: 100270.337@CompuServe.COM (Nick Brooke)
Subject: Public Information Service
Message-ID: <940614222954_100270.337_BHL45-1@CompuServe.COM>
Date: 14 Jun 94 22:29:54 GMT
X-RQ-ID: 4581
_____
Corn:
David D:
>> By corn, you mean maize (this is an international digest)?
Sandy P:
> Hokay, international dudes. What does "Corn" mean to you?
Where I live, the phrase "Hokay, international dudes" would be referred to
as "corny". Does this help? ;-)
______________
Bryan posited:
> And it could be that the Lunars really have no idea that Orlanth is
> worshipped in Ralios and points distant. They may know that "a storm
> god" is worshipped there, but little else.
And, so far as their theory goes, they could be right! (Or was Odin really
Mercury all along?). Against the vocal God Learner majority on this list, I
think there are far more differences between various Ruling Storm Gods than
the spelling of their name. BTW, as a name for "the Ralian form of Orlanth"
I've used "Orlando", which has several pleasant associations: berserking,
amorous insanity, chivalry, Ariosto, orange cats.
The trad. Ralian form of elective confederate kingship looks significantly
different to the more hereditary type we see in Sartar, to my (optimistic)
eye. Orlanth Rex would be King of the Gods for different reasons in Ralios,
and far more easily ousted by dissent among his followers.
____________________
Bryan also proposed:
> If you don't want to post a great honking amount of stuff on Sartar to
> the daily, you could always upload it to the archive (soda.berkeley.edu).
And incur the eternal hatred of those who can't access that archive? Don't
do it, Sam! Post it here, where we can all read it!
__________________
Joerg and Wenelia:
> Entru is the earth king, ok. But in the following he sounds more like
> Granddad Mortal.
The masculine earth principle (Genert, First Father) is the ideal form of a
"Grand Father": he must be the ancestor of everyone. So I agree completely.
^^^^^^^^
> Then Entru would be the Esrolite name for Wendel?
Nope. Entru fathered the Entruli in the Green or Golden Age, before the
Great Darkness. During the Darkness, some of the Entruli were saved by
following Wendel. You're saying something like "Storm Bull would be the
Eirithan name for Waha": an easy enough misunderstaning, but wrong.
> If androgyny is a Hsunchen trait, how do the Hsunchen stand to Androgeus?
I misspoke: Hykimi androgyny. Androgeus is, as ever, the Unnatural One.
(Though some Vadeli come a close second). Only the exceptionally naughty
Twins of Tarsh can tolerate his/her practices. (At the same time??).
__________________
Graeme reiterated:
> I don't think I'm oversimplifying the Lunars when I say they haven't
> developed an idea (creating a new language and imposing it upon the
> populace in order to manipulate their personalities to desired ends)
> that has only been developed in 20th century speculative fiction.
Check out Plato's Republic. 5th century BC: 2500 years earlier than your
frame of reference. I'll concur with the "speculative fiction" tag, though.
He proposed that the ideal state would have to restrict the permissible
forms of music in order to "manipulate the personalities" (in your phrase)
of the populace. Ditto poetry. Extension to language is one more logical
step along the same path. And we *know* the Lunars designed and built an
efficient and stylish new language for their Empire.
Is your problem in accepting that the Lunars could develop and implement
their philosophical/theological "ideas"/ideals more effectively than any
real-world Empires? Their long-term Illumination project seems to suggest
that they work this way. I was just looking for spin-offs. Given that the
Lunars think strangely/indirectly, plan for the long term, and like to use
the mundane institutions of their Empire to "Illuminate" the masses, the
idea that the state's official language is itself a tool for furthering the
Lunar Way was too tempting to miss.
It doesn't have to work: Ingsoc's Newspeak didn't; Pao's languages didn't;
even the Ascians' little red book didn't. You don't have to use it: there's
nothing "official" about the suggestion at all. It's just one of my ideas.
If it upsets or revolts you, please ignore it. (Or, better still: tell us
something else interesting about New Pelorian).
====
Nick
====
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From: ddunham@radiomail.net (David Dunham)
Subject: Vinga
Message-ID: <199406142259.AA22407@radiomail.net>
Date: 14 Jun 94 22:59:40 GMT
X-RQ-ID: 4582
Bryan J. Maloney said
>If you don't want to post a great honking amount of stuff on Sartar to the
>daily, you could always upload it to the archive (soda.berkeley.edu).
Spoken like a true Internet user. Not all Digest subscribers have Internet
access; I'd rather see dribs and drabs posted each day for a month than
know that it sits inaccessible somewhere.
Bryan also posted a Vinga myth. While I appreciate seeing more about Vinga,
and it had some nice elements, I found it troubling.
>Orlanth laughed at her
This from the god of the culture where 15% practice non-gender roles? I
much prefer Nick's version of Orlanth, allowing Yinkin to herd even when he
knew he'd fail.
>Vinga castrated Eurmal
Must all Orlanthi warrior women be castraters? It makes sense for Babeester
Gor (who's an anti-fertility goddess), but do women warriors have to be
nasty? Besides, Eurmal shows no effects of this important mythical event.
I'll try to post my own Vinga myth soon. Orlanth is probably going to
figure Vinga isn't worthy, but will test her (expecting her to fail)
instead of rejecting her outright.
---------------------
From: rowe@glorantha.Berkeley.EDU (Eric Rowe)
Subject: Dragonewt Encounters and a Sorcerer
Message-ID: <2df79f8f.glorantha@glorantha.Berkeley.EDU>
Date: 9 Jun 94 23:02:38 GMT
X-RQ-ID: 4583
The following are ten dragonewt encounters designed to confuse, annoy
and entertain your players.
TEN DRAGONEWT ENCOUNTERS
1: A large group of Dragonewt Warriors and Scouts appoaches the party and
locates the character with the lowest appearance. (The size of the
Dragonewt force should be sufficient to rule out force as a player
option). Without explaination or communication the warriors will grab and
sit on the chosen player. Then specially equipped Scouts will scrub the
person clean, really clean. Their hair will be combed, teeth flossed and
the dirt removed from their fingernails. The Dragonewts will then release
their captive and be on their way. The victim will have his appearance
enhanced by three, but this will be reduced by one every week until the
character is back to their smelly and dirty self.
2: The players come upon a group of Dragonewts of various stages arguing
vigorously about something. As the players approach, the Dragonewts notice
and beckon them to join them. When the players arrive they are shown a
skin with a word on it. The language is whatever you think fits your area
best. The Dragonewts are arguing about its correct pronunciation. If a
player can succeed in in reading and speaking the strange word the
Dragonewts will be thankful. They will cease their arguing and leave,
perhaps also leaving behind a gift in thanks.
3: A small group of Dragonewt Scouts notice the party and begin following
it from a safe distance. If the party stops, so will they. If the party
speeds up, so will they. If the party turns around and goes back to
question them they will stop and pretend not to understand the language.
If pressed, they indicate they are not following the party. If the party
becomes violent they will flee and then return to an even safer distance
to continue their following. This should continue as long as the GM is
amused by the player's reactions.
4: A group of Dragonewt scouts about equal in size to the party
approaches, but doesn't speak. Without being violent they will try to
examine the contents of any bag, sack or pack the party owns. They are
very persistent in this and fight back if attacked. If given leave to
examine pack contents they remove all the items carefully as if looking
for something. They are looking for copper utensils, but could be looking
for anything. If they find any they are ecstatic about their discovery and
run off into the sunset with it. If they find nothing they will be
downcast in demeanor and slowly head off in search of utensils elsewhere.
They at no point communicate what they are searching for to the party.
5: A small group of Scout Dragonewts appoach the party and their leader
addresses the party in the native tongue of the region. It seems they are
lost and need help with directions. If the players are willing they will
take out a stange map. After long study and depending upon the area lore
and knowledge of the players they will realize the place the Dragonewts
are looking for is the player's own home city/town/farm. What is confusing
is all the additional items on the map. For instance, Mount Garanath is
replaced by a picture of a dragon, and the dead woods is marked as a field
full of Elves fighting Dragonewts. This is a mythic Dragonewt map of the
area and has interesting Dragon lore about the land etched upon it. Will
the players give correct directions to their home? Why do the Dragonewts
wish to go there? That map could be very useful/valuable, and there are
not that many Scouts. Of course, it's not wise to anger the Dragonkind.
6: A group of Dragonewt Warriors are seeking to hire humans. They wish to
capture an Allosaurous that escaped and is roaming the area causing
problems. Unfortunately, the Allosaurous is too smart to follow a
Dragonewt into a trap. It is not, however, smart enough not to follow a
human meal into a trap. The trap is simple and allows the players plenty
of time to escape safely. Best of all, the Dragonewts are paying gold.
This should be easy money, unless something goes wrong with the trap.
7: A large party of Dragonewts containing a Ruler comes across the party.
He offers some gold to a random party member to race up to apex of the
nearest hill (encounter should be in a hilly area) and then back down. If
the person agrees and takes off, a Scout aide to the Ruler will begin a
rhythmic type of chanting (He is actually counting time). When the runner
returns exhausted, he will be paid off and the Scout will stop his strange
noises. They will then wander off, at no time offering or giving an
explaination for their experiment.
8: A Dragonewt Warrior comes hurrying towards the party carrying a small
sealed box. In the party's native tongue he asks one of them to guard the
box for a while and he will return soon, but something is chasing him and
he doesn't want the box destroyed if he is caught. He then runs off.
Since soon means something different to Dragonewts than to humans it is a
year or two before he returns to find the box. If the box has been stored
safely and the seal not broken he will be thankful and tell all the
Dragonewts of the region of the human's great Dragon-like virtue. However,
if the box is gone or the seal broken he will be very angry and tell all
the Dragonewts that this human is a betrayer and should never be trusted.
The box is empty.
9: A passing group of Dragonewts beckons the party to come talk with them.
They are leading a strange giant lizard with many supplies packed onto it.
If the players talk, they will discover the Dragonewts are just being
friendly. They will gift the players with a sack of strange fruit. Grown
from seeds both ancient and once distant. Pinapples, mangos or even
bananas are possible. They taste great and should leave the players with a
taste for more of same someday.
10: Games Dragonewts Play. The players come upon a small group of
Dragonewts diligently contructing and archway large enough to pass a
dinosaur beneath. They ignore any efforts at communication. About a mile
further the players see the some thing again. They are clearly building to
prepare for some strange Dragonewt ritual or magic. Actually, they are
preparing for a game of Dragonewt croquet. The difference between regular
croquet and Dragonewt is mainly that the balls in this case are
triceratops. Each team of Dragonewts has to herd their animal through a
series of twelve giant hoops and then back again. The first one to
successfully do so wins. If two triceratops try to go through a hoop
together and knock it over, both teams must replace the hoop before
continuing. If a triceratops is entering a hoop one way and a returning
triceratops is entering from the other the biggest one wins and the other
is penalized the time required to heal it. This sport can be devastating
to the vegetation of the area and is greatly frowned upon by farmers. What
is additionally interesting is that the Dragonewts would allow any team
that supplied its own triceratops to compete. Challengers anyone?
---------
On to strange sorcerer's as suggested by MOB, my players must avert their
eyes for it contains stuff they are not meant to know. This means you
Jim and Kube.
Markus and his Great Sword Var. Markus appears in flowing gaudy green and
purple robes. His sleeves are always rolled back and a greatsword rests
upon his shoulder. His arms where the skin is showing (and everywhere
else) are covered with magical enchanted tatoos. He is very friendly and
loves to ramble on about his past exploits to any who will listen. Markus
wants his and Var's fame to spread far and wide. An example encounter
would be with him greeting the party and then offering to share some
roasted Walktapus with the party, for he has just recently slain eight of
the foul beasts and can't eat as much meat as he took from the bodies. The
meat is actually herd-man meat. Markus will also tell of his many other
great adventures such a the time he killed the crimson bat and it took the
Red Emporer a year to get a new one. During all this he will often talk to
his sword, Var, as if it were alive. And ocasionally he will ask questions
from it to various other party menmbers. He isn't happy when people don't
play along.
Markus's big secret is that he is no sorcerer, but a brilliant trickster.
He gets by on sheer bravado, brains and the well timed use of 'Lie'. He
has pulled many elaborate schemes such as having the totem of the Sable
clan stolen by a friend so that he could return it when none of the Khans
could. He would love to have an apprentice, but hasn't found anyone he
dislikes enough to trick for several years.
This actually works on players if done right. After four encounters with
Markus my players are convinced he is not what he seems, but their current
conclusion is that Var is the real sorcerer and that Markus is just his
puppet. He has yet to have to use 'lie' on them.
eric