Bell Digest v940628p9

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Subject: RuneQuest Daily, Tue, 28 Jun 1994, part 9
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From: bchugg@leland.stanford.edu (Barron Chugg)
Subject: Theories of Magic and the Weakness of Order
Message-ID: <199406280616.XAA05202@leland.Stanford.EDU>
Date: 27 Jun 94 14:33:53 GMT
X-RQ-ID: 4879

Hello All.


Colin:
>
>Ok, this is the idea: Established worship through cults has great strength
>but also certain weaknesses. 
>
>The strength is that the magic becomes easier. The tracks are so well-worn
>and easy to follow (when you know where to start) that a worshipper is almost
>certain to get the desired outcome.

  Magic definatly becomes easier.  I think there is another advantage as
well, that being, that when the cult is established, the members are more
socialized into the ethos of the religion.  It is, after all, much easier
to follow a given philosophy when you are surrounded by fellow believers. 
This also has the advantage of pre-conditioning you for the Runepathes
(thus making the magic easier).

>In Game Terms:
> Sacrificing POW allows you to find the start of a spell-path. Initiates
> can walk this path once (one-use magic); to find the start again they must
> sacrifice again. Priests are sufficiently "at one" with their god that
> they can always find the start of a path which they have walked; hence their
> magic is reusable (except for those tricky one-use spells:-).
>

  Or, given the RQ4 idea of renewing one spell a year (which I like, BTW),
they can wait until particularly conducive moments (high holy days or
sacred time).  When the initiate becomes a priest their spells become
reusable normally, the special effect being that they have a greater
familiarity with the Runepathes.

  Another interesting question is whether the POW sacrifice is the start of
the ritual or the end.  Sort of the cost of the excursion.


>However, the rigid, formulaic structure of the god-track renders it vulnerable
>to interference. If the god is fully established (the myths surrounding him
>are declared as doctrine by the cult; the god-track is locked in place; cult
>rituals are performed the same way by many people) then this makes the god
>open to attack by other gods. That is, Heroes from other cults can start
>messing around with the paths established for your god and thereby indirectly
>harm your cult. They work their godess into your myths and make her "win"
>against your god; they hijack part of your god-track; they steal magic from
>your cult.
>Pretty soon you have to start fighting back with Heroes of your own.
>

  I like this idea, but I'd like to add one more thought.  When the hero
makes the ascension to godhood their pathes become interwoven with those
that already exist.  Often these are of the gods that the hero followed
during his time on Glorantha, or the pathes of his enemies.  When the hero
ascends he becomes part of the natural laws of the world and subject to all
those limitations (there are crocks to the Compromise, after all).  So now
the pathes are set and will intersect the pathes of the firends and foes of
the hero, and the hero is no longer free to act in whatever way he might
choose.  (Interesting Aside: Is this transition discrete or smooth?  Does
the hero slowly lose his freedom of action, or does it happen all of a
sudden?)

>It seems that Gods are less vulnerable while they are being established. This
>is because their god-track is in a state of flux; the myths surrounding them
>vary enormously; hence they are less vulnerable to assault by HeroQuesters.
>It's hard to take a shot when the goalposts are moving.

  Or, perhaps, they have not yet passed the barrier of the Compromise.

---------------
Paul:

  Okay, yea, I got a chance to read Paul's post on a shuttle bus, so here
are some comments.

>
>This was a personal letter to
>Nick and Greg, hence the personal references.

  And I thought you were just a congenial guy :-).

  First off, neat work.  While I don't agree with everything, it is still
interesting.  Your images are quite vivid and in keeping with some of my
personal oppinions, but I'll try to put those aside to deal with the post.

  Your three levels of magic is very well put, and I couldn't stop thinks,
as I read it: he isn't talking about magic.  But then, I've been reading
too much Jungian stuff lately.  Anyway, the parallel of the Otherworld
(read Spirit Plane, read Hero Plane, whatever) with the sub-conscious is a
good one, and one that kicks around in the back of my head a lot.

  I guess my big complaint is that things are couched too much in a
shamanic mode (but, darn, they sure do fit well that way).  When I think of
Glorantha I tend to have a theist streak, imagining the gods as the prime
movers.  I guess I agree with most of what you say, _if_ I am looking at
things as a shaman.  If I adopt the view of another archetype (sorcerer or
priest) I'd have tons of quibbles.  In fact, the whole post seems like a
metaphor for the seperation of man from nature.

  On more specifics, I'm not sure I agree with your images of illumination.
 I have always thought of illumination as a very internal shift.  It
several all of your cultural and moral ties.  In a way it is liberating,
but since you must still live in the world of cultures and morals, you're
bound to have troubles.  In the West, where, it seems, social control is
much more prevailent (as a side effect of either its religion or its level
of civilization), a person so liberated would be that much more of a
problem.  If the West is a place of moral absolutes (as many seem to
portray it), then a person who exists in moral relativism is going to be a
major problem.

  As for Western saints...well, I don't know.  I think that to mix
enlightenment with illumination is a mistake.  But then, I consider
illumination a basically bad thing.  Saints are, in a traditional sense,
the personification of certain virtues that a religion values.  From my
perspective, they have walked the Runepathes of the Invisible God, and
often expanded or clarified them.

  Again, I think your ideas about the "Otherworld" are perfect for a
shamanic perspective.  In fact, I will probably use the part about wizards
("Throwing in the toe...") for a way shamans look at them.  I doubt any of
the other disciplines have this view, however.  Now, if you could codify
the same beliefs from the perspective of a priestess and a wizards...

TTFN
Barron



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