From: RuneQuest-Request@Glorantha.Holland.Sun.COM (RQ Digest Maintainer)
To: RuneQuest@Glorantha.Holland.Sun.COM (Daily automated RQ-Digest)
Reply-To: RuneQuest@Glorantha.Holland.Sun.COM (RuneQuest Daily)
Subject: RuneQuest Daily, Sat, 02 Jul 1994, part 2
Sender: Henk.Langeveld@Holland.Sun.COM
Content-Return: Prohibited
Precedence: junk
---------------------
From: niwe@ppvku.ericsson.se (Nils Weinander)
Subject: Not only abou the east
Message-ID: <9407011142.AA00320@ppvku.ericsson.se>
Date: 1 Jul 94 15:42:04 GMT
X-RQ-ID: 4957
Nils Weinander writing
Sandy's Dayzatar cult:
Great! One more thing I won't have to make up my own poor
substitute for!
_____
Barron on ritual and mundane actions etc:
> Now, this is brings up an interesting question. Is the belief in
>devotion enough? That is, if you believe your actions are proper strongly
>enough, will they produce the right results? I'd vote for "yes". This
>allows a GM to throw in sadistic CAs ("It's for your own good.") and gentle
>Uroxi ("The Bull wants us to fight chaos, not each other.").
I can see the Chalana Arroy healer approaching the sick and wounded
character, taking out needle and thread to sew his wound shut:
'Now this is going to hurt a bit, but such a brave warrior won't
mind that, would you?'
I.e. I agree completely.
NW>when a Humakt kisses the death rune on
NW>her sword
> Isn't that redundant? :-)
Ahem, well, when she kisses the small death rune incised on the blade
of the big death rune which is her sword? :-)
_____
Bryan asks:
>Is it ever appropriate or possible for there to be shaman player characters?
>If so, what kinds lend themselves to this?
In our gaming group there is one shaman PC. He is rather odd though,
since he is also a priest of Orlanth and since he has severed the
ties with his tribe on a heroquest. Apart from that he is just
disgustingly powerful, like all the characters in that campaign.
_____
Joerg in response to my 'everything is Void' eastern philosphy:
NW> I.e. the paradox of the Void: everything springs from nothing =>
NW> every object == nothing => every object == every other object.
>Hmm. Everything except dragons, who came from beyond the Void.
The dragons come from the soul of the Cosmic Dragon, which
emerged spontaneously from the Void? Coming to think of it this
'all stems from the Void' sounds conspicuously like modern
cosmology: all matter was originally confined to 0 volume, and
then came into 'real' existence in the Big Bang.
Joerg on Teshnos and Zitro Argon/Dayzatar:
Right on!
>unless Yelm circled the spike on an orbital resembling the Fire Rune,
>the dot in the middle representing the Celestial Palace on the Spike. In
>this case days would have been measurable as the time between two
>eclipses. And we find a use for the Sun Chariot in Godtime!
Very neat.
>The torpor apparently stems from some mishap suffered by Hisgoranstor of
>Gach at the hands of a Melib god in prehistory - which might mean predawn.
>
>Would this date Soravatoor, Son of Heaven, founder of the Teshnan culture,
>even earlier, parallel to Genert's Garden and Tada's kingdom in the
>fertile Savannah of Prax?
Soravatoor? I must have missed something. Where is he mentioned?
Anyway, the timeline seems good.
>Does it strike anyone as curious that Teshnos has been unscathed by
>any drowning when all of Genertela suffered some loss
...
>Maybe this very lethargy has saved Teshnos
>from the catastrophes?
Or some land sank, but the lethargic Teshnans just shrugged and
accepted.
>Who were the inhabitants of Melib before Harstar conquered the island?
Either Teshnans under their own ruler, or Hsunchen of some variety
I'd think.
Btw, nice analogy between GRoY and Kalevela. The latter is a must
read for anyone interested in mythology, shamanism and heroquests.
____
/Nils W
---------------------
From: joe@sartar.toppoint.de (Joerg Baumgartner)
Subject: Player character types
Message-ID:
Date: 1 Jul 94 12:23:10 GMT
X-RQ-ID: 4958
David Cake in X-RQ-ID: 4933
> In reply to various things Sandy said
>> Everyone's campaign is different. My own PCs are homeless
>> wanderers, and so I naturally assume everyone's campaign is like
>> mine. At least, I did until about fifteen years ago, when I
>> discovered the amazing range of difference between RQ campaigns.
> Well most of my PCs seem to be travelling barflies, but one of them
> won the Garhound contest, and next thing you know, the house, the
> wife, community responsibilities, and he's a regular pillar of society,
> and hobknobs with the rich and powerful - well at least the notorious
> and respected.
Actually one of my main reasons to switch to Glorantha with my current
RQ campaign was that I had a very good reason to demand cultural adaption
and responsibilities on the part of the player characters. My previous
campaign, which had started as a (fantasy) Vikings only campaign with
family ties and social involvement (80% of the starting characters
had been married, and had children to raise and farms or workshops to
tend), had developed into a spin-off which contained homeless wanderers
only, due to a series of character deaths in foreign country. When
the party became less and less coherent, I lost interest in making common
adventures for them - why bother if they split up anyway. This campaign
rests unresolved...
For the Glorantha campaign I have chosen, I let the foreign cultures visit
instead of making my characters travel more than say 200 km. Within this
radius they'll find enough stuff to do, e.g. the warm-up phase of the
hero wars. Maybe they'll make the longer trip to Pavis one day, but so far
there is enough to do close by, and with the current date (late 1615) there
will come enough distraction to central Heortland for the next 7 years...
P.S.:
Henk, what happened my Aeolian stuff for a digest?
--
-- Joerg Baumgartner joe@sartar.toppoint.de
---------------------
From: joe@sartar.toppoint.de (Joerg Baumgartner)
Subject: Shanasse
Message-ID:
Date: 1 Jul 94 12:23:24 GMT
X-RQ-ID: 4959
Sandy presents the Dayzatar write-up and has a whole group of entities
called Shanasse. So far, this name meant Aldrya's lover/husband to me.
Is the Wood Lady's husband connected to these (apparently lesser)
Luxites?
Don't the Luxites make up the main part of Dayzatar's sky realm
inhabitants and followers?
The Lightfore myth: What had happened to Lightfore?
--
-- Joerg Baumgartner joe@sartar.toppoint.de
---------------------
From: joe@sartar.toppoint.de (Joerg Baumgartner)
Subject: Malkion Aerlitsson
Message-ID:
Date: 1 Jul 94 12:23:38 GMT
X-RQ-ID: 4960
Graeme Lindsell in X-RQ-ID: 4951
Complains about too many christian elements in our attempts to explain
Malkionism.
For one thing, I wouldn't play Pendragon for a medieval christian setting
because I like RuneQuest rules better. I'm sure that the mosty silent
generic RuneQuest faction will agree...
For the other reason, Christian material is more readily available to
me and a majority of participants on this list. People with ready access
to the other monotheistic religions you mentioned are encouraged to
give me access to these informations - if the list objects to real Earth
info (although Alternate Earth and "generic" RuneQuest fall within the
charter of this list), contact me in private.
> A short side question: the Malkion, son of a Storm God and a Water Nymph
> stuuf. Is this actually believed by the West? I can't see them saying their
> Prophet was descended from a False God. It seems to me that this is another
> God Learner concept, perhaps an attempt to put Malkion into the Monomyth,
> where he could be more easily manipulated. Also, I can't recall seeing it
> in any RQ3 material.
I think the large 3rd Age churches of Loskalm and Seshnela don't believe
this any more. The Return to Rightness crusaders did a good stake or bale
job of eradicating this "theist nonsense" from Malkionism as they wanted
it to be, along with the divine descent of a certain royal house of
Seshnela.
The Stygians who managed to keep theist elements in their creeds despite the
crusaders' efforts will probably have kept this knowledge, and will believe
in it in varying degrees of fervour. Storm-related sects like in Otkorion
will be the most likely candidates to embrace the myth.
That something didn't appear in published RQ3 material doesn't mean it
has been lifted from Glorantha. Too little Glorantha information has been
published in the 10 years of its existence. The origin of the Zebra people
form the Pavis Box hasn't been reprinted in RoC either, yet I'd regard it
still as valid Gloranthan fact. Arkat's career in the west from the CoT
history section is probably waiting for Gods of Dorastor to be reprinted.
Wyrm's Footprints is expected this year; would you regard this reprint
efffort as RQ3 material?
--
-- Joerg Baumgartner joe@sartar.toppoint.de
---------------------
From: DevinC@aol.com
Subject: Re: RuneQuest Daily, Fri, 01 Jul 1994, part 3
Message-ID: <9407010753.tn247377@aol.com>
Date: 1 Jul 94 11:53:18 GMT
X-RQ-ID: 4961
Devin Cutler here:
Dave Cake writes:
"After they become High Healers, they get
POW gain rolls every time they get in spirit combat, which is every time they
cast Resurrect "
I assume this is RQAiG, since in RQ3 they did away with POW gain rolls for
spirit combat.
Stephan writes:
"In a game that I played in, the GM made no distinction in the source of the
damage. After having a rather large Damage Boosting spell placed on a
sword, my character was able to bounce opponents off of the walls."
I say that they do not help, but Strength obviously does. One PC of mine
wielded a single large shield, cast STR 6 on himself, and would simply steam
roller (he had lots of Protection up) anything that got in his way.
Regards,
Devin Cutler
devinc@aol.com
---------------------
From: guy.hoyle@chrysalis.org
Subject: SPELL SPIRITS
Message-ID: <9406302251.0W3PR03@chrysalis.org>
Date: 30 Jun 94 20:51:07 GMT
X-RQ-ID: 4962
I had a thought about spirit combat, particularly as it pertains to spell
spirits (usually the most common type of spirit magic for non-shamans). It
seems sometimes that this type of combat is just another abstracted mechanic,
not very exciting, usually. What if each type of spirit spell manifested as a
symbolic entity; say, a Bladesharp Spirit might be an animated sword that you
had to outfight; a Mobility Spirit would be a rabbit that you had to outrace; a
Strength Spirit was a Bear that you outfight; etc.? This isn't a full-fledged
idea yet, but I thought that it has some potential. Also, a spell spirit might
be different if it came as a cult spirit (a chariot to race for the Orlanthi),
or a shamanic spirit (a rabbit, a horse, or a cheetah).
Just a thought.
GUY HOYLE (not Guy Robinson)
aka Fido Two-Big-Clubs (well, OK, maces, he's just a former herd-man)
---------------------
From: SMITHH@A1.MGH.HARVARD.EDU (Harald Smith 617 726-2172)
Subject: tale of the week
Message-ID: <01HE6RKL91XYQZF1HW@MR.MGH.HARVARD.EDU>
Date: 1 Jul 94 04:35:00 GMT
X-RQ-ID: 4963
On a slightly lighter note from some of my earlier tales, I offer the
following Imtherian story.
How Cheese Was Made
by Harald Smith
(This is a tale commonly told amongst the Valusi and Zarkon marls about
the origin of cheese.)
In the days of darkness before Khelmal came amongst men, the foods of
the world began to disappear and men went hungry. The animals that
still lived grew afraid--some like the badgers and foxes dug holes in
the ground to hide, others like the goats and sheep retreated higher
into the mountains.
The goats took secret trails into the mountains hoping to hide from men.
But Alaczar the Toad (who had always disliked the goats ever since they
ate his giant turnip) came after them. He kept leaping into the air to
see where they had gone and pointing out their trail to the men that
followed. There came a point when the herd of goats could go no further
and the hungry men still followed them. Then Alaczar gloated for he
knew it would be the end of the goats.
A man called up to the goats on their ridge. "Send us down one of your
kind so that we may live and we will leave the rest of you alone."
The goats considered this and decided that a sacrifice of one was a
reasonable bargain if they were to stay alive. So one goat was send off
down the mountain to the hungry men. The men sacrificed the goat and
ate it.
Of course, it was not long until the men were hungry again and another
man called up to the goats on their ridge. "Send us down one of your
kind so that we may live. We will certainly leave the rest of you
alone."
The goats were quite alarmed at this, but after careful consideration
they decided to sacrifice one more of their kind. So another goat was
sent down the mountain to the hungry men. The men sacrificed the goat
and ate it.
Well, men are always insatiable given a chance, and it was not long
again until the men grew hungry. They called up to the goats asking for
yet another sacrifice.
Now this time, Grand Goat, the greatest billy of the herd offered to go
himself, for surely he was large enough to satisfy all the men.
But Mother Goat would hear none of that. "Wait," she said. "Even you
will not satisfy their lust for flesh. But I am full to bursting with
milk. I can spare some for these men so they don't go hungry and yet
the milk will be replenished when they are ready for more."
The goats thought this was a good idea. Grand Goat called down to the
men and offered this proposal. At first the men were reluctant for they
had come to like the taste of goat meat. But the wisest amongst them
recognized their plight and agreed to try the milk, with the condition
that if they did not like it then Grand Goat would come as a sacrifice.
A pitcher was sent up to collect the milk and Mother Goat promptly
filled it.
Now Alaczar was upset about this since he wanted the men to eat all the
goats. So he thought to play a trick so they would be eaten anyway.
After Mother Goat had finished filling the pitcher, Alaczar snuck up to
the vessal. Carefully, so that no one would see him, Alaczar cast his
magics and soured the entire pitcher of milk until it curdled. Alaczar
was so happy and pleased by what he did that he bounded off up the ridge
so he could see the goat's expressions when the hungry men asked to eat
Grand Goat.
When the pitcher had reached the men, they lifted it up to see what was
inside. There they found a mix of curds and whey. Not knowing what to
do, they found a bowl and poured off the whey into it. They then took
the curds and pressed them together into a ball which they could then
evenly divide amongst themselves. So they ate the pressed curds and the
bellies of the men were filled. They were so pleased that they called
up to the goats and thanked them for the meal.
Alaczar was so angry that his trick had failed that he dashed down into
the camp of the men. "Don't you know that that milk was sour?" he
exclaimed in outrage. "You aren't supposed to like it at all!"
But the men had liked the cheese. And they wanted more. So their
leader came over to Alaczar and said, "You must be another gift from the
goats." He grabbed Alaczar so that the trickster could not escape and
then the gave him to the men to eat.
And that is how the goats survived and men first made cheese.
---------------------
From: Michelle_Ringo@ed.gov (Michelle Ringo)
Subject: Western Women -- A more Egalitarian Loskalm
Message-ID: <9406017730.AA773080765@ed.gov>
Date: 1 Jul 94 14:39:25 GMT
X-RQ-ID: 4964
Thanks to all of you who have kindly thought to name a
Rokari Saint after me. I agree that it should be a
"Gloranthan" name, if done at all.
I would like to put forth my argument for why
Hrestoli/Loskalmi are more egalatarian than other Western
cultures.
I agree that Book 3 of the Genertela Books under Western
Soldier does state that under "Gender Relations" Western
culture is dominated by patriarchal structures, paternal
ancestors, etc. Men are the rulers, highest church
authorities, warriors and hard workers. Women are the child
bearers and hearth keepers. However, this does not
preclude strong roles for women. "Dominated by" is not
the same as exclusively. Even Seshnela has female
enchantresses.
Under Loskalm in Genertela Book 2, Page 19: "The old and
respected kingdom is rich, stable and confident of its
future The _unusual_ meritocracy based on a revival of
Hrestoli beliefs [whatever those may be], has produced a
_fair and integrated_ society . . . cities thrive, . . . ."
Meritocracy is a system by which advancement is based on
achievements, or ability. Leadership by talented achievers
(per Webster's II New Riverside University Dictionary).
This is not implicitly a gender biased approach to
advancement.
I would argue that Loskalm has the traditional
gender roles (like all the other cultures described
throughout the Genertela books), but also like the Lunars,
Orlanthis et al, has men and women both switching roles, and
not all roles are gender specific.
Wizardry, Sorcery, Priesthood would not be gender specific.
One of the differences in Hrestoli based worship amongst the
wizards (unlike the Seshnela wizards) is that they "do not
rail against the common pleasures, nor threaten loss of
Solace for feeling no guilt over love and hunger". This
moves further away from a celibate priest/monk approach of
the Catholic church.
My interest in all of this comes out of the fact that the
Kingdom of War vs Loskalm clash looks interesting for gaming
within. Thus far, I would not run a female PC in the
Kingdom of War, but I could see strong women PCs and NPCs
coming out of the Loskalmi culture. Varying in type from
St. Joan of Arc, Queen Elizabeth II, Queen Eleanor of
Acquitain, Catherine de Medici, Fighting Nuns of Saint
Myshella. There is not dicta that women can not be members
of the Order of the Red Garter and the Order of the Swallow.
Yes, history of the Loskalmi reflect that only men have been
Kings and Heads of these Orders. Analagously, the USA has
no prohibition against a woman president, but simply has not
had one elected to date. Until Margaret Thatcher the UK was
in the same situation. That which has not happened is not
per se forbidden.
I would see the women warriors of Loskalm as using archery
of a type other than the crossbow and as using spear in a
melee situation. From a sociological perspective if a
culture has a warrior class to which women can be are
expected to aspire to, the proper physicality and aggression
can be developed.
Another possibility for women roles in this area are as
merchants, auxilarly support to the war machines of either
side, part of a subversive underground movement for peace in
the Kingdom of War. Nevertheless, at least one side of this
conflict should be fairly attractive to PCs of both genders.