From: RuneQuest-Request@Glorantha.Holland.Sun.COM (RQ Digest Maintainer)
To: RuneQuest@Glorantha.Holland.Sun.COM (Daily automated RQ-Digest)
Reply-To: RuneQuest@Glorantha.Holland.Sun.COM (RuneQuest Daily)
Subject: RuneQuest Daily, Tue, 05 Jul 1994, part 3
Sender: Henk.Langeveld@Holland.Sun.COM
Content-Return: Prohibited
Precedence: junk
---------------------
From: guy.hoyle@chrysalis.org
Subject: OH YEAH???
Message-ID: <9407041522.0LLQG02@chrysalis.org>
Date: 4 Jul 94 13:22:41 GMT
X-RQ-ID: 5018
Sandy cackles:
>Philip Juffs hopes:
>>someone said that the product Allobroo might only be the size of a
>>normal broo but with big teeth
>Dream on! He's waiting for you, Guy Hoyle. Somewhere, out
>there in the campaign, beyond the tall grass. The allobroosaur. And
>he's NOT the size of a normal broo. Alas. (Obscene cacklings,
>trailing off into vague mutterings of doom.)
Dream on, Chaos-boy! I've got a Stygian Magus with ties to Urox who's whipping
up an army of giant Storm Khans, who'll kick your Allobroosaur's sorry butt!
So there! Nyaaah!
Guy Hoyle (not Guy Robinson)
Looking over his shoulder furtively
---------------------
From: NDROBINS@NDROBINS.FIN.GOV.BC.CA
Subject: GLs, Runes and the Monomyth
Message-ID: <9407042354.AA0698@NDROBINS.FIN.GOV.BC.CA>
Date: 5 Jul 94 00:35:28 GMT
X-RQ-ID: 5019
Neil Robinson here:
The RQ4 Playtest mailing list, in between hashing through Paul/Mike's
sorcery system has brought up questions about Runes and how
important they are. After all, the game is called RuneQuest, and in RQ II
Runes were the basis of Glorantha (IMVHO).
In an odd moment I had a thought about the God Learners
and their use of Runes and the Monomyth. The GLs attempted to
explain and control Glorantha through the MM and Runes - merging
Gods and cultures, and altering their powers by forcing them to act
through fixed Runic patterns. Now had the GLs been completely successful,
then the MM and the Runes would be the only way that Glorantha could
be viewed. Unlike Earth, where mathematics and physics only model our
world, Glorantha is completed malleable through belief, and would have
become the runic/mm model. By Glorantha, I include the mudane, spirit,
hero, and god planes.
It shows why the GLs were so dangerous, and so strongly resisted
by the Gods, and Glorantha itself. Heck, maybe that's what happened
to Earth. It was a Glorantha-like entity where the GLs won (and here
we are). Several authors, like Charles de Lint (gotta love those Canucks),
have followed similar threads. The title "the magic goes away" leaps
to mind too. Without the belief, there are no gods and no magic (yeah,
yeah, old stuff I know).
This all comes back to the basic question. Can we use runes to
detail Glorantha, or the Monomyth to describe the deities. Yes they
work as general tools, but fall down when you try to get into the
gritty details.
Neil
_______________________________________________________________
Neil Robinson NDROBINS@NDROBINS.FIN.GOV.BC.CA
---------------------
From: joe@sartar.toppoint.de (Joerg Baumgartner)
Subject: Teshna
Message-ID:
Date: 5 Jul 94 00:03:03 GMT
X-RQ-ID: 5020
Nils Weinander in X-RQ-ID: 4988
> Sandy on Teshnos' land goddess:
I asked:
>>>Sandy, does Teshnos have a Grain Goddess/Goddess of the Land?
Sandy quoth:
>> I would have assumed the existence of a Teshna, or something,
>>but if you have a more interesting idea than a dull old Land Goddess,
>>let's hear it.
> I jump in uninvitedly. What if Teshna is the land goddess, but acknowledged
> only by the original people of the land, my Night caste? (Of course this
> means that my idea of the Teshnan castes must be accepted :-)) That could
> have interesting implications to explore since my poor Nighters are not
> allowed to worship any gods.
An inspiration I just had:
Teshna might be a regular goddess of the land, but with much stronger ties
to Aldrya than elsewhere in human lands. We know that the Teshnans are very
friendly to the Embyli living east of them, and although the map in
Genertela Book doesn't make it clear, all of Teshnos is quite heavily
forested. So what about a goddess of the land who is worshipped only
indirectly, through the Embyli, who also provide the Bless Crop spells
for their Teshnan friends, and receive part of the harvest in return for
their clerical services?
And Teshna with her male-only Embyli lovers would make a nice counterpiece
to Tolat and his amazons...
The Night caste still might be involved somehow, but since they don't
have rights to the fields they till, they don't need the rites to do so.
Paul Reilly is thinking about the Night Caste equivalent of Dara Happa.
Any chance they are blue-skinned?
--
-- Joerg Baumgartner joe@sartar.toppoint.de
---------------------
From: joe@sartar.toppoint.de (Joerg Baumgartner)
Subject: Luxites! Luxites! Luxites!
Message-ID:
Date: 5 Jul 94 00:03:33 GMT
X-RQ-ID: 5021
Sandy Petersen X-RQ-ID: 4989
> Joerg B. coins the noxious barbarism Luxites.
Sorry, this honour goes to Greg. I just used the name of the heavenly
hosts given in The Glorious ReAscent of Yelm.
Since it is a Dara Happan term, I think "degenerate urbanism" fits
better than "barbarism"...
> Please, Joerg, stop it!
Luxites! Luxites!
(instead of "Ni!")
> Argh! Then he goes on to ask some reasonable questions:
>> Sandy has a whole group of entities called Shanasse. So far, this
>> name meant Aldrya's lover/husband to me.
>> Is the Wood Lady's husband connected to these (apparently lesser)
>> Luxites?
> Please don't use the word "Luxite" again.
Luxite!
>> Don't the Luxites make up the main part of Dayzatar's sky realm
>> inhabitants and followers?
> "Shanasse", please.
Among which culture? King Lux's (aka Arraz's) followers?
GRoY p.7:
"The ordinary affairs of the sky world were overseen by Arraz. He was
king of the Luxites, who are the denizens of the heavenly realm. They
are sometimes called Angels, or Heavenly Host. They are the Sky People,
and servants of Heaven."
GRoY p.19: (following Dayzatar's statement of leaving, quoted below)
"The heavens were filled with many groans and cries for this message
dismayed the Luxites who had always followed Dayzatar and done whatever
he did."
GRoY p.77:
"Luxites. Denizens if the Sky Realm, sometimes called Angels or Sky
People; ruled by Arraz."
>> The Lightfore myth: What had happened to Lightfore?
> Beats me. The Dayzatar cult I published dates from before GoG
> was even published -- at the time I (and Greg) wrote it, we'd planned
> to have GoG consist of 20-25 full cult writeups, one of which was
> going to be Dayzatar. After finishing the full cult writeups, we
> changed our minds and decided that 60 short-form cults would be
> better for the players. So Dayzatar went into cold storage.
Some questions:
What made you change your mind?
How many cults (and which) are still in cold storage?
(The ones which have been published since are
Yelmalio (Sun County)
Orlanth, Storm Bull, Daka Fal, Chalana Arroy, Issaries, Lhankor Mhy, Zola
Fel (River of Cradles),
Yelm, Gagarth, Humakt, Maran Gor, Magasta, Mostal, Lodril, Pamalt, Uleria,
Donandar (Tales, White Wolf, Different Worlds).
> Maybe Lightfore is a Pent belief, not a Dara Happan one.
Isn't. He appears in the important role of announcer of the sun.
Dayzatar says (according to Plentonius) upon his departure from the sky:
"The World is changed. Even the sky is now touched with putrescence. The
Pure Light is not. Now is the time I mus fulfill my own prophecy and
seek Lightfore, who has been gone since he departed from here. [...]"
(GRoY p.19)
And Lightfore reappears according to Plentonius when the new sun rose in
111,111 YS (111 ST), when he rides Kargzant, the old sun.
--
-- Joerg Baumgartner joe@sartar.toppoint.de
---------------------
From: joe@sartar.toppoint.de (Joerg Baumgartner)
Subject: Kingdom of Logic
Message-ID:
Date: 5 Jul 94 00:03:49 GMT
X-RQ-ID: 5022
Graeme Lindsell in X-RQ-ID: 5003
> >The Stygians who managed to keep theist elements
> You're assuming the original (Kingdom of Logic) religion was theist. While
> later first age Seshnelan religion certainly was, nothing implies that it was
> always that way.
I don't. There was something like a church of the five elements there
(hence the importance of the Pentacle for the Brithini), but I think
that apart from the false sorerers (in the Prosopaedia there are mentioned
Worlath and Ehilm, of the same name as the Ralian deities, although we
don't know whether these were identical before the Jrusteli made them so)
who emulated single elements to the excess, the majority of the inhabitants
of Brithos/KoL just followed the Logic. When Malkion arrived in their land
(I use the theory that he was an outsider, as described in my Aeolian
write-up), he learned their ways, and from the goddess of the land begat
his sons who became the embodiment of certain aspects of the law he
formed from the knowledge the KoL inhabitants had taught him.
The sons of Malkion and the KoL inhabitants procreated, so that the Brithini
and Malkioni deservedly claim descent of Malkion.
The original religion of the KoL was different from e.g. the Vingkotlings'
or Dara Happan religion in Godtime. The inhabitants knew other deities than
the Creator, but they didn't worship them. IMO they claimed the Creator made
them directly, that after their model all other men were made or conceived
by other deities, or maybe false gods. The KoL has something in common with
Tir Nan Og in that the humans living there had eternal youth, and were as
powerful as were the deities. Maybe their deities of the land and elements
and powers there _were_ very powerful individuals of their own kind who
had become so enmeshed in their ways that they stopped being logical.
What about this idea: The False Gods listed in Prosopaedia are remnants
of the off-mainstream original Malkioni church, or even predating these.
The Serpent Kings preserved some memory of one or more of these heresies,
and set them monuments in Hrelar Amali.
Humct indicates that the Powers were important to the Brithini/KoL as
well, and possibly had their own sects.
> The reason I find this
> Malkion as Storm God stuff doubtful is that there seems to have been a
> considerable change in attitude towards the West in between RQ2 and RQ3.
> Specifically, the RQ2 stuff, scant though it is, never mentions the
> Invisible God. Instead, Malkion is always referred to as a god: something
> the Theyalans would be inclined to do. Like trying to claim he's a storm god
> as well.
The RQ2 stuff never treats 3rd Age Malkionism. The only knight to appear
in early RQ publishings is Sir Ethilrist, and his being a hero makes his
worship quite unclear.
CoT has a somewhat formed picture, and its humanist Prime Mover would be
the Creator. I agree with Nick Brooke that the title "Invisible God" might
have been coined by the Jrusteli, but the Prime Mover is present already in
RQ2 stuff.
Unless I get a better explanation, I will hang on to the scarce early info
on Malkionism, and use it as a basis for my asumptions.
--
-- Joerg Baumgartner joe@sartar.toppoint.de
---------------------
From: jacobus@sonata.cc.purdue.edu (Bryan J. Maloney)
Subject: Basmoli shamans
Message-ID: <9407050028.AA00342@sonata.cc.purdue.edu>
Date: 4 Jul 94 14:28:10 GMT
X-RQ-ID: 5023
Woof! That's an amazing coincidence. What you have written is virtually
identical to what a player of mine wrote as mythological background for his
Basmoli shaman PC. I'll post it to the mailing list when I dig it up (I
have permission to do so.) A few "corrections" to your Basmoli stuff from
mine:
Basmol is not dead. Since Basmol is the greatest god, he cannot be killed.
Instead, he is sleeping. He put himself to sleep as a great test for the
Basmoli. One day, the Great Shaman will be born. This hero will prove that
he is worthy to rule the world because he will be able to punch his way
through the ring of guardian shaman spirits and awaken Basmol.
My campaign no longer has any sort of lion questing in Genertela. They're
extinct on that continent. The only lions extant are in Pamaltela (Pamalt
keeps them alive in memory of Basmol's great prowess as a warrior.)
---------------------
From: jacobus@sonata.cc.purdue.edu (Bryan J. Maloney)
Subject: Ralzakark
Message-ID: <9407050139.AA00518@sonata.cc.purdue.edu>
Date: 4 Jul 94 15:39:57 GMT
X-RQ-ID: 5024
Why, doesn't everyone know that Ralzakark is Arkat in convalescence?
---------------------
From: davidc@cs.uwa.edu.au (David Cake)
Subject: Re: More bloody Hrestoli
Message-ID: <199407050424.MAA01227@cs.uwa.oz.au>
Date: 5 Jul 94 20:34:56 GMT
X-RQ-ID: 5025
>David Cake:
>> No, they are suitably subservient modified Hrestoli. They are probably are
>> rife with heresy, but as long as they keep grovelling, and stay over there,
>> they are useful allies against the infidel.
>
>And now that some of them are aiding the Kingdom of War? Even if the
>Jonatelan church is notionally subservient to Eccles, I don't think Loskalm
>likes Jonatela. Nor do I think Idealistic churchman like the liberties
>the Jonating have taken with their class system.
The only Jonatelans aiding the KOW are freebooters and mercenaries,
the King has not committed any forces either way (though he seems to be
leaning towards helping Loskalm, I suspect his real reason for not being
involved in the battle is wanting his armies for his domestic wars).
I suspect the the Loskalm hierarchy are quietly rather disturbed at
the mess the Jonatelans have made of their theology, but bear in mind that
Jonatela only left the Ban in 1616. In the small number of years since
then, I think the Loskalm hierarchy is still struggling with the question
of what to do about Jonatela, and just counting themselves lucky that they
seem to be friendly, and possibly valuable allies, and not another KOW.
They probably imagine that they can correct their errors of theology in
time. I don't think that Loskalm likes Jonatela, but I think that with
religious ties to bind them, and both of them with wars to fight, they are
unlikely to be attacking each other anytime soon.
Cheers
Dave
---------------------
From: ddunham@radiomail.net (David Dunham)
Subject: Spellteaching; big bug broos
Message-ID: <199407050431.AA05237@radiomail.net>
Date: 5 Jul 94 04:31:07 GMT
X-RQ-ID: 5026
Joerg said
>Spellteaching is a Common Divine spell, and these are available and
>regainable only at Major or Great temples under RQ3. (Magic Book p.29)
In the Errata, it's available at minor temples, too. (Somebody with more
Internet savvy might know where the Errata are posted.)
Sandy said
>I'm sure that insects are way too small for a broo to mate.
And this coming from the man who made his fame with a product specializing
in giant insects, followed by another product with giant domesticated
insects?
---------------------
From: MOBTOTRM@vaxc.cc.monash.edu.au
Subject: More from the Arse End
Message-ID: <01HECOC0MAIU93HI4Y@vaxc.cc.monash.edu.au>
Date: 6 Jul 94 01:19:36 GMT
X-RQ-ID: 5027
G'day everyone!
_______________
Sumware Orother
Barron Chugg writes:
>I had heard the sorry of "not yet", but yours works too. "Hey Greg, got
>a name for that city?" "Not yet." "Got it." (But then Tales published
>Sumwer Rother (or something like that) in the Pamaltela issue.)
Sumware Orother is the home city of that famous Jrusteli trader Sumting
Orother, quoted at the beginning of the Aranjara Dreaming issue. I
sorta-kinda accidently left the city on the map before it went to
production, and was a bit shocked to see it on the finished product.
Ah well...
Thanks to the multitudes who have illuminated me as to the true origins of
Cor-flu. The stuff is generally called "Liquid Paper" down here, after the
first brand on the market. Poms will be intrigued to know that for
same reason people here often call sticky-tape "Durex". Americans
will be amused to know that the collequial term for a pencil eraser is
a "rubber". Even though I recently had to write a letter to a 5th grade
child's parents about him bringing mint-flavoured condoms to school,
my children frequently come up to my desk and ask for a "rubber".
________________
Down Under again
Jim Chapin, a.k.a Leonidas writes:
> ...both America and Australia were settled bu dissidents or
>criminals, while Canada and Great Britain were countries where the anti-
>revolutionaries won. Suggests a model for social interactions between
>superficially similar societies in Glorantha!
Example might be Carmania (settled by dissidents) and Fronela. By the way,
if you ever come to Australia and the immigration or customs official
asks you, "Have you got a criminal record?", don't reply "I didn't think you
still needed one", as they have heard it at least 187,645 times before.
__________________
The Secret History
Paul Reilly:
>Oh, and there are perfectly matter-of-fact reports of "miraculous"
>occurences as well, including people coming back from the dead. If it's
>important I can take the time to look one up. Let me just do a different
>one from memory: why do we believe 99% of what Procopius says in his
histories
>but suddenly balk when he tells us that the Emperor Justinian was possessed
>and was seen by reliable witnesses walking around holding his not-attached
>head? (In the Analecta)?
Procopius's Secret History was known in Greek as the Anecdota, which correctly
translated means "Unpublished things" and was used because the book was
not published in the author's lifetime, if indeed it ever was published
in the ordinary sense of the word. It is available in Penguin Classics -
back cover teaser says, "...in all, the vicious side of a splendid city is
exposed by Procopius with a candour which is often revolting" (eg. those
of you with a taste for prurient history buy this book!)
While Procopius's official works ("Histories", "Buildings") are
methodical and chronologically accurate, they are also highly
partial - the Penguin Classics translator describes "Buildings" as a
"fulsome and tedious work, written in pompous language, and made
distasteful by the constant flattery of the imperial pair"). In
complete contrast, Procopius's Secret History is the complete reverse,
full of venom and spite (and specially trained geese). While I would
not go as far as Paul in accepting 99% of what Procopius wrote, if you
take his works as a whole - the pros in one volume and the cons in
another (just as a modern author might use different chapters or
paragraphs), some measure of truth might be found, though very little
objectivity.
Procopius's beliefs in the supernatural were commonplace at the time,
as was the belief that the wickedness of the monarch would provoke
calamities such as plauges or earthquakes.
_______________________________________
List of Stuff for Auction at Convulsion
Just to whet your appetites, here's what I'm bringing over to donate
to the auction!
Seller: MOB
Seller Number: Ain't got one yet!
Percentage to Convulsion: 100%
1. Cults of Prax, 1979 USA edition. Excellent.
2. RuneQuest II, 1980 Games Workshop edition (different cover).
Very Good. Reserve Price.
3. Cults of Terror. Excellent.
4. Sun County - Japanese version with cool Manga cover. Mint.
Reserve price.
5. Griffin Mountain. Excellent.
6. Assorted Stuff #1:
a. Fangs (from RQ II boxed set). Chaosium edition. Very Good
b. Militia & Mercenaries (RQ II). Excellent
c. Creatures of Chaos #1 - Scorpion Men and Broos (RQ II). Very Good
d. Basic Roleplaying. Games Workshop edition. Glossier paper
than Chaosium version. Good.
7. Assorted Stuff #2:
a. Fangs. Games Workshop edition. Glossier paper than Chaosium
version. Good.
b. Basic Roleplaying (from RQ II boxed set). Chaosium. Excellent.
c. Apple Lane (from RQ II boxed set). Excellent
d. RQ II Character Sheet pad (Games Workshop). 31 character
sheets, 19 adventure sheets. Excellent, but note some sheets are loose.
See some of you soon!
Cheers
MOB
---------------------