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From: jacobus@sonata.cc.purdue.edu (Bryan J. Maloney)
Subject: Basmoli stuff
Message-ID: <9407051957.AA06771@sonata.cc.purdue.edu>
Date: 5 Jul 94 09:57:23 GMT
X-RQ-ID: 5041
(It seems that the author of the Basmoli stuff is a player in my RQ:AiG
playtest--I didn't look at the email address. Isn't it expensive to dial
up from where you are at the moment?)
Kirsten just told me who you were, oops and duh on my part, Chris. Anyway,
some commentary on your Basmoli stuff:
"live in Prax and that their god, Basmol, is "distant". Their tribal
orginazation is into subgroups called prides consisting of 8-12 individuals.
Prides are led by females and contain a war shaman(male). Females are
warriors/hunters and men are warrior/hunters or shamans. There are about"
This is too small for a human hunter band. It might be the right size for
a family group, but they'd be in larger groups or the population would crash.
Women would not act as warriors--too dangerous for the children. However,
given their mythic connection to The Lion Himself, I could see them acting
as communal hunters to some extent. The problem is that human infants need
a great deal more care than do lion infants, so you can't stretch the analogy
too far. I would say that women act as gatherers and the core of the society.
Now, as for the majority of young men being driven out--too costly for humans
to do this. HOWEVER, there is a way to explain why the core community has
very few young men "sleeping in". Men in Basmoli society, except for the
shaman and one or two other special men, are peripheral, both socially and
physically. They live on the periphery of any Basmoli band. If they wish
to have admission to the central circle, they must "purchase" it with a gift
of meat to the women and cubs. They also must defend the core band against
any threats. Failure to do this results in true outcasting. If a male
distinguishes himself in "gift gathering", magic, or protection, he is
permitted into the core group. It is not unknown for 2-4 Basmoli males to
form a coalition to bring in more game than any one of them could alone.
"herd people who betrayed them. They have nearly wiped out their nearest
neighbors the rhino people."
Yeah, that's what the Basmoli say. Of course, since they're not part of
Waha's bargains, they know nothing about the Great Journey around the Waste
to and from the Paps. The real Rhino Tribe is nowhere near where the Basmoli
currently live. Boy, will they be surprised when the main band shows up
someday.
"Basmoli Shamans:
War Shaman:
A war shamans duties are to teach magic to his people(2/season), protect
lion spirits, take part in hunts, initiate new war shamans, aid Lions or
Basmoli if in trouble, keep the stories of the pride alive, and plan and
support raids. Also when they die they also must protect the body of Basmol
until he awakens when they will be reborn as lions.
Among their favorite shamanic powers are:
self-resurrection,discorporation,magic attack, spirit mastery, and second sense.
They are not forbidden any powers. Prefer the spirit spells: Spirit Screen,
Ironhand,Protection,Countermagic,Demoralize,and Fanaticism. They are not
forbidden any spirit magics. Divine magics are in the GoG."
The "divine magics" mentioned are listed under "Hykim and Mikyh" in GoG, I
think. The "Shamanic Powers" referred to are experimental rules in the
current RQ4 draft, that may or may not see the light of day in officially
published materials.
"the death. Some prides add that they may only fight with hands and teeth(Lion's
Head divine spells)."
The taboo for unarmed fighting does not _require_ the Lion's Head and Lion's
Claw divine spells, but they are preferred if possible. Beginning shamans are
permitted to "get by" with Iron-hand (which the Basmoli call "Little Claw"
since the Basmoli version actually does make the hand look paw-with-claw-like).
"Law Shaman:
A law shamans duties are to initial new shamans, adamantly keep the way of the
Lion King, to individually perform the hunt in the "right" way, and preserve
the Basmoli way of life. Identical shamanic powers, magic, and taboos
except that they are required to learn self-resurrection and they must only
fight with hands and teeth. They are trained as a war shaman and then"
Law Shamans are also required to learn the laws and customs of the Basmoli
to a Master level (90% plus) before they are eligible to be installed in
office. For a pride to lose a Law Shaman without finding a replacement is
a small disaster. These prides will be willing to bargain, beg, etc. with
other prides or through intermediaries to other prides to get another one or
get the old Law Shaman's best student up to snuff.
"The Lion Quest:"
The Basmoli of Prax no longer have the Lion Quest. Lions are extinct in
Prax. However, this does not stop some hotheaded youngsters from trying the
quest anyway... Praxian Prides now have other sorts of contests, similar
to those used by Foundchild to determine their Great Hunter. But, if anyone
were actually to bring back a real lion...
"Kal'karrak(Beast)"
Kal'karrak has not been contacted within living memory in Prax (no lion
skins).
The tales of sterile lions among the Basmoli are due to Praxian beast
riders not knowing of the various Hsunchen "transform" spells that Basmoli
shamans have.
If Kal'karrak were to be successfully contacted, he could bestow the divine
magic mentioned with his cult.
Alternatively, he can offer a unique spirit magic spell:
Spirit Claws.
3 pts.
This spell, when cast, gives the recipient "claws" that function on the
spirit plane/in spirit combat. The effect is to give the recipient an
effective +3 to MP when attacking in spirit combat. The nature of the
spell is such that a discorporate creature may use MP from its fetch (if
it has one) to cast the spell.
---------------------
From: SMITHH@A1.MGH.HARVARD.EDU (Harald Smith 617 726-2172)
Subject: lightfore
Message-ID: <01HECRCH6H9WQZFC5N@MR.MGH.HARVARD.EDU>
Date: 5 Jul 94 11:28:00 GMT
X-RQ-ID: 5042
Hi all--
Catching up on a few dailies and I noticed some question as to where
Lightfore fits in. Most of the Lightfore information comes from an
article on the gods of fire and light in Wyrms Footnotes #10 (long
before GoG and this writeup also has the best discussion to date on
Pole Star). Lightfore is sent off to become the first Hero by
PoleStar (if I remember correctly and not by Dayzatar), but supposedly
gets into trouble. Dayzatar finally breaks his abandonment of the
world to rescue Lightfore.
Now what is the source of this myth? I suggest given its early
publication that it is a piece of the GL Monomyth. Pieces of it
probably derive from the Teshnan view of Dayzatar, the Praxian view of
Pole Star, and perhaps an Orlanthi explanation of the origin of the
Lightfore planet. In which culture is Lightfore the first Hero,
though? (He is in Imther as he, under the name Lagavar, is the leader
of the Lightbringer's Quest, but Imther is a little beyond the GL
domain.) Probably not Teshnos given Calyz as the culture hero (unless
Calyz the Firebringer is Lightfore?). Perhaps it comes from an early
Manirian/Wenelian myth since Skyreach Mountain is so prominent in that
area.
I'm sure other possibilities exist.
--Harald
---------------------
From: Urox@aol.com
Subject: The Real Monotheism
Message-ID: <9407030217.tn303242@aol.com>
Date: 3 Jul 94 06:17:41 GMT
X-RQ-ID: 5043
Bismillaahir Rahmaanir Rahim!
Alhamdulillahi Rabbil'Alamiin
Arrahmanir Rahiim
Maliki Yaumiddiin
Iyyaaka Na'budu Wa'iyyaka Nasta'iin
Ihdinash'shirrathal Mustaqiim
Shiraathal'ladziina an'amta 'Alaihim
Ghairil Maghdluubi 'Alaihim Waladl-Dlaaliin.
Amiin.
In the name of (Invisible) God, the Merciful, the Compassionate
Praise be to (Invisible) God, Lord of the Creation,
The Compassionate, the Merciful, King of Judgement-day!
You alone we worship, and to you alone we pray for help.
Guide us to the straight path
The path of those whom You have favoured,
Not of those who have incurred Your wrath, Nor of those who have gone astray.
The Fatiha, or Opening, the first prayer in the Book of Hrestol.
I haven't been paying much attention to the debate on Loskalm, monotheism
etc, mainly because I've never played in the West and am much more interested
in writing up notes on my voyages to the Eastern Isles of Iabadu, Telaga Batu
et al.
But since Bryan Maloney has challenged me to bring in a perspective of
monotheism from the True Faith instead of the followers of Isa Al-masih (the
one called Jesus by the Kafir), I'll try to put in my 2 clacks worth.
I've never understood the IG church very well but a quick perusal of my RQ
III and GoG material makes me think the Hrestoli of Loskalm are most like the
Islamic world because of their (slightly) more egalitarian society, the
potential for advancement through merit and the following of the final
Prophet who corrected misinterpretations of earlier teachings. The profession
of faith should be: "There is only the Invisible God and Hrestol was his
Messenger." I have used Messenger because while Hrestol is a prophet (nabi),
of which there are several, Malkion included, there is only one Messenger
(Rasulallah) _and there can be no more_.
Sorcery also fits well because of Islam's traditions of Mystic Wise Men who
keep knowledge and study law and through meditation and prayer can gain magic
powers as in the Sufi tradition. I'm not really sure what direction to take
with this because I don't know which aspects are most interesting to others.
I suppose I could look up examples of magic, demons, etc in the Koran and
other sources and make them into Gloranthan stories but maybe it would be
better if I answered questions. Are people interested?
Mark Foster
---------------------
From: Argrath@aol.com
Subject: English 101
Message-ID: <9407031242.tn308136@aol.com>
Date: 3 Jul 94 16:42:42 GMT
X-RQ-ID: 5044
In Standard English, a question in the form:
[verb] [pronoun] not
or the contraction:
[verb]'not [pronoun]
expects the answer "yes." For example, "Haven't I ..." or "Have I not..."
expects the answer "Yes, you have."
Please remember this, or you may completely misinterpret what someone is
writing.
Clearly,
Argrath
---------------------
From: elias_kadri1@cl_63smtp_gw.chinalake.navy.mil (Elias Kadri)
Subject: Revelations of Agreement
Message-ID: <9407060115.AA01085@Sun.COM>
Date: 5 Jul 94 09:49:42 GMT
X-RQ-ID: 5045
Subject:Revelations of Agreement
Hello!
I'm noticing a trend here: Every time someone posts something that
seems just plain _wrong_, they seem to follow it up with a post that
I agree with completely. Obviously we are all highly intelligent,
rational people here!
_________
Joe Lannom, on "time" in Godtime, and the Great Compromise:
Good Stuff! This made some fuzzy thoughts I had on the subject much
clearer for me.
_________
Colin Watson, responding to my position that Gods Are People Too:
E>The fact that the
E>worshipers of a god believe that their deity is a person makes it so
C>What if some worshippers don't believe that the deity is a person?
C>Do they get to veto this communal belief? Is it based on a majority?
C> (:-))
At risk of being thought over-literal, I would like to respond to this.
Clearly, if belief creates reality, and if some worshipers believe the
deity is defineable, and even controllable, then it will be so. Both are
true at the same time: The deity is described by his paths, by his
history which shows his worshipers the Way, and constrained by his
nature, which requires him to be what he is, or cease to exist. On
the other hand the deity is personal, and because of who he is, may
act in ways his worshipers do not expect.
>I find it especially hard to believe that a living hero
>is going to meekly turn into an abstract construct of rituals as
>the price of apotheosis.
C>Maybe I didn't explain things too well. The point is that the Hero
C>doesn't get a choice in the matter. Heros don't get to choose to be
C>Gods. They are made into gods by their worshippers; by all the
C>folks who follow their path after them.
I think I'm going to have to plead guilty to an ill-considered statement
here. I've always felt that in a well-run universe (not necessarily
this one!), increasing power goes along with decreasing freedom to use
it. Obviously, that applies to Heroes, too.
__________
Barron Chugg gently reminds me that we are talking about a game here:
B> What I am saying is, the deep question about the gods is less
B>important than the myriad of other questions about how this
B>approach would work. But then, it does bring out the latent
B>philosopher in me...
Me too! (obviously) I'll try not to let him run away with me, though...
B> I see the hero as often _not_ in control of their destiny
B> (a classic literary idea).
(see my reply to Colin, above)
__________
Joerg explains:
J> The whole point is to make the heretic devout initiate fighting
J> against the baddies high up in the hierarchy possible. (Although the
J> initiation to political and otherwise power can be a much stronger
J> force than initiation to a god, and with much stronger spirits of
J> reprisal, too.)
J>
J> I think that the whole discussion started when Devin thought that
J> irreverent and undevout priests were not possible (or at least
J> extremely unlikely) in Glorantha. There are lots of cases of highly
J> placed priests who prove this to be historically wrong in Glorantha:
J> Lokamayadon, Arkat, Obduran the Flyer, Treack Markhor,
J> Yanafal Tarnils, Irripi Ontor, all these have succeeded in their
J> betrayals and have become famous. How many more have failed and
J> perished nameless?
Thanks, I had no idea how this thread started (but, being the
unmannered lout that I am, I jumped in anyway!) (you mean I'm
agreeing with _Devin_?? - well, not completely.) As a short answer,
since I've already been long-winded enough, I would say that those
folks are all Heroes, who made their own paths of power when they
found that the god's Way didn't suit them. "Hero" in this sense,
doesn't necessarily mean "good guy". If #004#I'm repeating thoughts that
have already been said, let me know. I wouldn't want to beat a dead
horse further (honest, I thought he was only sleeping!)
__________
Cullen O'Neill points out:
C> If a NPC is recounting a myth then the god is the focus, but if
C> a person is Rune or Hero Questing then the paths format seems
C> to me the easiest aid to understanding (in my own mind) what
C> is happening (so I can explain it to my players in the
C> God metaphor).
Point taken. I expect I'll make use of both viewpoints as well.
Yours in Harmony,
Elias
---------------------
From: garydj@ditard.dit.gov.au
Subject: Recovering Rune Magic
Message-ID: <9406067735.AA773528143@ditard.dit.gov.au>
Date: 6 Jul 94 11:55:43 GMT
X-RQ-ID: 5046
Gary James here.
Cullen O'Neill asks some questions about my idea of runepaths being
laid out in worship ceremonies.
Me:
"The number of worshipers present would affect the number of
runepaths available in a given ceremony. The particular paths would
vary depending on the needs and desires of the worshipers and the
priestesses leading the ceremony."
Cullen:
"Would the priest(ess) be able to recover one point per ritual? How
long is this ritual?"
In terms of rules mechanics, a worship ceremony takes as long as the
participants want, but it must be at least one hour. The longer the
ceremony, the higher the chance of success. Also, I think the more
runepaths which are opened, the longer the ceremony.
I like Joerg's idea of a successful ceremony roll being required to
regain each spell. This would represent correctly following the
runepath. I also like the idea of the participants sacrificing MPs as
part of the ceremony. A rule of thumb could be the priest(ess)es (I
don't think it need be just one) must each sacrifice one MP (and one
point of fatigue?) per hour of the ritual. Other participants would
only need to sacrifice one MP.
I would prefer to leave how many spells a priestess can recover in
the hands of the GM. This way the GM has carte blanche to decide
just how much rune magic will be available in the campaign. My
preference is for priestesses to have lots of rune magic (particularly
spells like Bless Crops) and to be casting spells for all who need and
deserve them. So, I would allow a priestess an attempt to regain a
spell from each runepath open during the ceremony.
Me:
"The important point, in terms of magical ecology, is that the only
limit on how often ceremonies are held is the willingness of
worshipers to attend. Where there are many worshipers, ceremonies
may be held weekly or even daily (nightly?). Thus, an Ernalda
priestess can easily recover her Bless Crops spell at plowing time."
Cullen:
"Hmm, this does have appeal. But seems open to abuse by powergaming
players with lots of followers."
I agree it is open to abuse. Its up to the GM how much powergaming to
allow.
Me:
"However, consistent with Sandy's (and others') arguments, Resurrect
is not readily available because Chalana Arroy worshippers while
widespread, are a tiny minority in most cultures."
Cullen:
"Worshippers here is initiate status or simply lay. Does an
initiate count for several lay members?"
I don't want to reopen the initiation debate so I will cop out and
say its up to the GM.
Gary James
---------------------
From: davidc@cs.uwa.edu.au (David Cake)
Subject: Re: Basmoli
Message-ID: <199407060415.MAA11896@melomys.cs.uwa.oz.au>
Date: 6 Jul 94 04:16:28 GMT
X-RQ-ID: 5047
I believe the official version is that Lions are extinct in
Genertela, but the Basmoli are ocassionally able to produce one by great
magics, and even train them for combat when they do.
We have had a great deal of ribald speculation on the part of both
players and characters about exactly how they do this. Our best theory is
that it involves Transform self, etc. and lots of extension.
Cheers
Dave Cake
---------------------