From: RuneQuest-Request@Glorantha.Holland.Sun.COM (RQ Digest Maintainer)
To: RuneQuest@Glorantha.Holland.Sun.COM (Daily automated RQ-Digest)
Reply-To: RuneQuest@Glorantha.Holland.Sun.COM (RuneQuest Daily)
Subject: RuneQuest Daily, Fri, 08 Jul 1994, part 1
Sender: Henk.Langeveld@Holland.Sun.COM
Content-Return: Prohibited
Precedence: junk
X-RQ-ID: Intro
This is the RuneQuest Daily Bulletin, a mailing list on
the subjects of Avalon Hill's RPG and Greg Stafford's
world of Glorantha. It is sent out once per day in digest
format.
More details on the RuneQuest Daily and Digest can be found
after the last message in this digest.
---------------------
From: joe@sartar.toppoint.de (Joerg Baumgartner)
Subject: Heortland and Hendr(e)iki character
Message-ID:
Date: 7 Jul 94 14:25:28 GMT
X-RQ-ID: 5066
Martin Crim in X-RQ-ID: 5058
> Here are some of my notes on Orlanthi regional differences in
> character, typical activities, and clothing styles. They're all
> just my opinion, but they're the kind of thing that I think helps
> a campaign become realistic. The Peloria/Maniria differences in
> character are based in large part on the North/South differences
> in various countries (including the U.S., Italy, France, Germany,
> China, and Vietnam). Even if you don't buy into stereotypes,
> they do provide roleplaying possibilities, especially in places
> like Riskland where the two groups rub shoulders.
Hmm, I belong to the "northern" type of humanity, at least in Germany,
and I spent a year in Norway north of the arctic circle. You seem to be
a southern type, from how you described "us".
It is true that to outsiders northern people can be extremely
tight-mouthed. In their presence, also private communication often
tones down, creating the nice uneasy effect when strangers enter a
country pub and all conversation ends, with lots of eyes fixed on the
newcomers. (Classic Saloon scene...)
Once you're an accepted member of these people, they become as
talkative, boastful and sociable as their southern counterparts, but
before, your description of the northern Orlanthi is a perfect first
impression.
> Peloria (Aggar, Holay, Imther, Sylila, Talastar, Tarsh, Vanch;
> also the North Sartar Tribes):
It 's a very harsh, and IMO un-Orlanthi, picture you draw here. All
Orlanthi love a good drink, and some drunken boasting, once a sense of
comradry has developed. Where two unfamliar parties meet, their
boasting will be more belligerent, and their outward behaviour will be
one of uneasy tension, since people don't know how to judge the
foreigners. Taking a Skanthi guide for a treck to Riskland provides
about as much conversation as talking to a mule. Living with the
Skanthi for a season, and sharing their daily affairs, and proving
one's mettle will probably make them accept you and include you in
their rough-mouthed braggardry and playful abuses exchanged.
The grim, stoic warriors you described fit better for Humakti or
Carmanians.
> Heortland & Sartar (Except North Sartar)
About Heortland I have my own impressions. I run a campaign there, I
designed a Stygian sect placed there, and I'm trying to write up stuff
for publication, preferredly in an official form.
For now, I will only try and point at things I treat differently. As
things stand, Martin is as right as I am, and possibly as wrong; all I
say is IMO. I just want to hold the door open for my opinion, and I'd
like to find as large a consensus as possible.
Note that I agree with almost all Martin says about the national
character traits of the Heortlanders.
The Kingdom of Heortland is a rather vast territory, and the home of
several tribes with several different customs and traits. What makes
things complicated in describing Heortland is that it is in a process
of changes brought to them by outside forces.
I'll try to define Heortland first for the time between 1602 (the fall
of Sartar to the Lunar Empire) and 1616, the disappearance of the
Pharaoh, since this is the most recent period of stability. (My
campaign started in spring 1615, so my players and I actually
experienced this period.)
First a historical backlog:
During the Inhuman occupation there was little doubt that Volsaxi
valley south of the Cross Line belonged to Heortland. Before the EWF
had formed, the term Heortland possibly included all of Sartar and
Wintertop, although the king in Durengard wouldn't have had much
influence on these Heortlings. The Only Old One was the representant of
the Stygian Empire in the early Second Age, and he ruled over the lands
of Dragon Pass at least up to the ridges marking the border of Lunar
Tarsh; the lands north of that were subject to the troll Queens of
Dagori Inkarth.
When the Tax Slaughter in the Greylands occured in 575, in the
Shadowlands there had developed another internal disorder - the God
Learners had opened a school which taught draconic speech in Nochet,
and the knowledge spread into Dragon Pass and caused serious troubles
there. The Only Old One wasn't too disappointed to leave the draconinc
thinkers in the pass to their own devices as long as he remained secure
in his ancient homeland, where the power of his mother was strong, and
when the EWF became a great power, the OOO remained a friendly but
independent ally.
When the Stygian Empire was crushed by the God Learners, the OOO
maintained his independance by balancing the EWF against the Jrusteli.
Though his lands suffered, they remained intact during the catastrophes
which destroyed both these major powers, and left his land in
isolation. Dragon Pass was sealed off at the cross line, and all lands
south of it answered to his rule. Everything east of Shadow Plateau was
counted into the sixths of either Heortland or Shadow Plateau, and was
probably disputed between the Kitori of the Troll Woods and the
Hendriki rulers of Heortland.
When Belintar swam ashore, the first people from overcrowded Holy
Country had already entered Dragon Pass. Most were easily conquered by
the Grazers and became their Vendref subjects. The Colymar coming from
North March in Esrolia (don't believe the Colymar Book, which is a
clear attempt to knit as many links to the royal house as possible)
were the first to keep clear of the Grazers and to settle the Quivini
region.
(IMO the North March of Esrolia has quite a lot classical Orlanthi
living in the upper valleys of the Skyreach Mountains, grazing sheep
and cattle and plowing only little plots in the valleys. Arrowmound
Mountain has their sacred place, and probably houses their king in a
fortress on the same mountain where Orlanth first used the Lawstaff.
Arkat's Hold will be their main market for trade with Esrolia.)
Belintar's arrival and the defeat of the Only Old One caused long-held
bitter resentments in the Shadowlands, renamed Holy Country, to break
out in open warfare. Among others, the Kitori suffered heavily and were
forced back into the Troll Woods, and the staunchest Orlanthi of
Heortland left the weakening civilising influence of both the Pharaoh
and the Malkionised Kings of Heortland to seek their fortune in the
Quivini lands. They followed no kings but their own.
There is no reason not to believe that a lot of dissenters did not
brave unknown Dragon Pass, but settled on lands recently freed from
Kitori influence. These would have been in Volsaxi valley and in the
Jansholm region.
Heortland 1602-1616
The northern part of Heortland is Volsaxiland. This valley and its
inhabitants changed allegiance between Sartar and Heortland several
times. In Tarkalor's reign, they belonged to Sartar, and Tarkalor
granted the strip of land around the ancient ruins of the Second Age
Sun Dome Temple to Monrogh Lantern, originally of the Running Fox Clan
(presumably of one of the Volsaxi tribes). Monrogh swore allegiance to
Tarkalor; none of his successors did. Thus Sun Dome County became an
independent state in southern Dragon Pass.
The rest of the Volsaxi lives almost identical to the Quivini tribes.
Their tribes are probably less coherent than the Sartarite tribes, since
they never experienced a unifying influence like that King Sartar
Peacemaker exerted on his kingdom, which is unparalleled in all Orlanthi
lands in Third Age Glorantha. They allied with their brethren to the north
against the trolls of the Holy Country, and they allied with their brethren
to the south against Grazer, Beastmen or Lunar raiders. This way they kept
their independance both from the Pharaoh and the Princes of Sartar.
The Troll Woods occupy the foothills and lower slopes of the northern
Storm Mountains. They are occupied by the mixed troll-human tribe of
the Kitori who claim or deny allegiance to Heortland or Shadow Plateau
as they see fit. On the south end of their territory there is the
Footprint, a chaos nest dammed by Godtime magic and constant human and
troll efforts.
Heortland southeast of the Marzeel River is divided into three quite
different types of landscape:
The land directly above the cliffs and further inland (maybe 15 km
inland from the cities on the rivers) is very flat, with only few
hilltops. The soil is chalky loam or loess from the glacial in Dragon
Pass during the Greater Darkness, rather rich, but still plowable with
Barntar type plows. There are settlements every seven kilometres at
most. The land would be open but for the custom to set up low
earth-and-loose-rock walls which are allowed to overgrow with hazel,
bracken, blackberry vines to keep the cattle and sheep out of the
fields.
Directly above the cliffs the soil gets drier, and is used mainly as
grang ground, also because of the rather strong winds usually
encountered here.
The only steep climbs in this part of Heortland are the slopes of the
river valleys.
The next strip of land is about as wide, and consists of the rolling
foothills of the Storm Mountains. The valleys still have rich soil, but
the hills are less fertile, and often wooded. Overall, this part of
Heortland is very similar to Sartar, and so are its inhabitants.
In the east there are the high valleys and peaks of the Storm
Mountains. These lands are less inviting, but still inhabited by
comparatively primitive Orlanthi. It was here that Hendrik and his
bandits held out against Palangio the Iron Vrok, and whoever visits
this region will understand how military force could be shattered from
the slopes of the mountains. There are high passes into Prax, but
hardly suitable for regular traffic. The easternmost of these solitary
clansmen have regular dealings with the Pol Joni of Western Prax.
> Public baths also provide places to socialize. They are
> found in every city and many towns and villages. Men and women
> bathe together with no salacious overtones, except among the
> Hendreiki. That tribe tried to close the baths, but now they
> allow separate baths for the sexes.
Yep, this far I agree with your description of Hendriki attitude.
> The Hendreiki tribe differs from the other Heortlander
> tribes in having a strong Malkioni component. This makes them
> prudish, compared to other Heortlanders, and strongly
> hierarchical.
Yes. Let me add that they dominate most of the cities and the flat
lands directly above the white cliffs of Heortland, and have less
interest in the lands of their origin (as a rebel band against the Iron
Vrok) in the foothills and upper valleys of the Storm mountains.
> Their warriors, called knights, are cavalry, like
> western knights.
Armed with the straight slashing blade of Hrestol, Orlanth and Humakt,
and a stout lance with a nasty point developed from the classical
Orlanthi stout spear rather than the western conical lance or the
Praxian lance. This makes the impact of their charge slightly less
effective than that of classical western chivalry or Praxian Bison or
High Llama lancers, but allows for individual mobility in their charge.
They use a variation of the Orlanthi long shield which resembles the
Western Kite shield, but is less effective. Their most sophisticated
native armour consists of full suits of reinforced chainmail, with
closed pot helmets, and odd pieces of (inferior) plate worn above the
chain. They wear colorful tabards signifying clan and tribal membership
as well as their allegiance.
> The cult of Black Arkat is an important social
> and religious institution among them.
Some form of Malkionism, to say the least; Henk holds the details of my
Aeolian write-up, but even if you, Martin, deny the validity of that,
there are the Trader Prince influences and older Malkioni influences
from the Stygian Empire.
I think that the Temple of Black Arkat mentioned on p.24 in Troll Cults
is located closer to Kitori lands, and that it is seen as a remnant of
the troll dominance rather than a state-bearing organ among the
Hendriki.
> The king is chosen from
> among a small royal family of Western descent, and convenes the
> folkmoot only when he musters for war or needs to raise money.
Maybe there have been marriages of Western women into the ruling family
(especially in the Third Age, with the expansion of Trader Prince
influences into Maniria), but the royal family claim descent from
Hendrik, the valorous leader of the First Age rebels. (RuneQuest
Companion tells us about "the Hendriki tribe which inherited the rule
of the land from Arkat the Conqueror hundreds of years ago." (p.24))
I agree about the diminished importance of the folkmoot.
> The Hendreiki Lightbringers' Circle is not very important,
Do you have evidence for this?
> and
> the king has western-style advisors and servants, such as
> seneschal, constable, butler, and marshall.
Certainly true. Include Malkioni bishops. However, the companions of
Orlanthi kings have _very_ similar roles, and you'll find a deity for
each of these in Orlanth's court.
> All this western
> influence makes the Hendreiki seem like foreigners to other
> Orlanthi, but normal Malkioni think they are pagans or, even
> worse, backsliders.
Foreigners to Orlanthi from far away; the Heortland tribes have gotten
used to the Hendriki and their Malkionist worship of Orlanthi deities,
and some even emulate the powerful.
The Rokari followers imported by Richard the Tigerhearted into his
Kingdom of Malkonwal treated them as backsliders, and set vigorously to
the work of banning pagan symbols from their churches and correcting
their erroneous ways in endless sermons held in Western tongue.
> Heortlander men wear brightly colored sleeved shirts, bound
> with belts, and pantaloons. They like to wear flashy hats,
> decorated with feathers, jewels, or trophies. The most common
> footwear is the leather boot, a style borrowed from Prax. Women
> wear blouses and skirts, in plainer styles than the men's. Most
> men cut their hair short and trim their beards, but let their
> mustaches grow. A long well-twirled mustache is a sign of great
> virility. Women bind their hair in kerchiefs, though eligible
> maidens often wear their hair loose.
True especially in and close to Karse, the independent and free port
city and barony controlling trade into northern Heortland. The more
sober Hendriki put emphasis in quality of the fabric instead flashy
colours, and import silks from the east, linen from Ralios (or the
Lunar Empire), and exotic wool from Prax where the classical Orlanthi
use the abundant wool, one of Heortland's main export articles for the
West. In the south, God Forgot knitwear (a minor remnant of the Machine
God's influence and its anachronistic inventions which has survived
among the fishermen of the Left- and Rightarm Islands) slowly makes its
entry into Heortland winter clothing. So far, only the products, not
the techniques have spread.
> Hope you like it.
I loved the folkloristic detail about the southern Orlanthi, and I will
use a lot of your stuff in my campaign. My quibbles are mainly with
parts of your description of the Hendr(e)iki.
Thanks a lot!
--
-- Joerg Baumgartner joe@sartar.toppoint.de
---------------------
From: SYS_RSH%PV0A@hobbes.cca.rockwell.com (Your Personal Name Here)
Subject: Re: RuneQuest Daily, Thu, 07 Jul 1994, part 1
Message-ID: <01HEF1GCVGC28YA70Z@hobbes.cca.rockwell.com>
Date: 7 Jul 94 02:54:37 GMT
X-RQ-ID: 5064
Devin quotes stuff:
"When a spell-using adventurer matches magic-points against a
target's magic points on the resistance table......"
This clearly, to my mind, implies that such only happens during spell
casting, as evidenced by the words SPELL-USING and TARGET'S.
==========
That's one way to look at it. One (probably with red, curly hair
that hangs almost down to his butt ) could also easily
write off that "spell-using" to bad editing. Then the phrase would
apply to anything using the resistance table, including spirit
combat. (Actually, I don't quite play it that way. I allow a power
gain roll only if the attacker had a chance of success less than 50%,
and then makes the roll.)
I agree with you in general, though, that the rules need help in this
regard (spell learning, combat, etc).
--Scott