From: RuneQuest-Request@Glorantha.Holland.Sun.COM (RQ Digest Maintainer)
To: RuneQuest@Glorantha.Holland.Sun.COM (Daily automated RQ-Digest)
Reply-To: RuneQuest@Glorantha.Holland.Sun.COM (RuneQuest Daily)
Subject: RuneQuest Daily, Thu, 14 Jul 1994, part 2
Sender: Henk.Langeveld@Holland.Sun.COM
Content-Return: Prohibited
Precedence: junk
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From: jacobus@sonata.cc.purdue.edu (Bryan J. Maloney)
Subject: Is Dragon Pass a Christian land?
Message-ID: <9407131747.AA00686@sonata.cc.purdue.edu>
Date: 13 Jul 94 07:47:47 GMT
X-RQ-ID: 5138
>I don't agree with this. Rape does not interfere with celebacy which is all
>about abstention. I should interfere with viginity which is all about purity.
>This is how it was in my own game "Crown of Thorns" which was based around
>pseudo RQ style christianity where virginity was highjly thought off and
>gave magical benifits (Which also made a virgin a better live sacrifice).
>Whether this translates to real RQ I am not sure.
But I wasn't running "Roman Catholic Quest". I was running RuneQuest in
Glorantha.
The idea that "virginity" is "all about purity" is NOT universal, 100%
valid for all societies. For example: A "virgin" in some cultures could
simply be an "unmarried young woman" regardless of her sexual activity.
You're hanging too many Christian connotations onto a non-Christian world.
Can you prove that virginity is "all about purity"? 100%, all the time,
in all cultures?
In the Orlanthi religion, virginity is a matter of freedom. The idea that
rape removes virginity is as absurd to an Orlanthi as the idea that theft
removes legal ownership.
"It is Yelm who makes laws that ignore what people intend."
"It is Orlanth who, instead, has justice."
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From: goroh@fee.unicamp.br (Andre de Oliveira Fernandes)
Subject: I WANT MORE POW!!!
Message-ID: <199407131755.OAA14207@diamante.fee.unicamp.br>
Date: 13 Jul 94 11:55:28 GMT
X-RQ-ID: 5139
Now, what is all this talking about "keeping" POW at 13 or
18 ??? I always wonder why all of the NPCs in every supplement (specially
Dorastor, he he) have huge POWs, and why are there so many shamans with
huge POWs (I've heard about POW 50 in this list) AND with huge-POWed
fetches.
The answer I came up with is that "there is always a 05% chance
of success". Or else it would be impossible for a PC to become as
powerful as those nasty enemies created by Greg, Sandy, etc. etc.
IF there really is a maximum limit, all the Gloranthan shamans
would have fetches with ridiculous POW. A lucky shaman would sacrifice
17 of his 18 POW to his fetch and spend the next season Disrupting
birds to get POW rolls (game mechanics... *sigh*)
If I'm wrong, could someone explain me how a NPC priest can get
more than 20 POW? If I'm right (05% chance ALWAYS), a priest would think
twice before keeping his POW down to get easier POW rolls: this way he
will never become a high-POW (strong aura, many MP, etc.) character,
and a powerful servant to his/her God.
To Sam Phillips:
459 messages?
I once got 3.5 Mb of new mail (all of it RQ stuff). I'm still
reading it...
Remember me at the Convulsion!!!
Goroh.
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From: jacobus@sonata.cc.purdue.edu (Bryan J. Maloney)
Subject: Occupation
Message-ID: <9407131758.AA00800@sonata.cc.purdue.edu>
Date: 13 Jul 94 07:58:37 GMT
X-RQ-ID: 5140
I tend to run my Lunar occupation of Sartar as being restricted to the cities
of Sartar's Ring. Patrols keep the roads clear and occaisionally terrorize
the countryside. Howefer, it's about as "pacified" as was France under
Henry V and his successors.
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From: jacobus@sonata.cc.purdue.edu (Bryan J. Maloney)
Subject: Broos mating with insects.
Message-ID: <9407131757.AA00762@sonata.cc.purdue.edu>
Date: 13 Jul 94 07:57:03 GMT
X-RQ-ID: 5141
I can outline a Broo-to-insect mating in a very few, relatively easy steps.
Step one: Broo of typical type mates with Trollkin.
Step two: Trollkin broo mates with giant insect, since Trolls and insects
are related to each other.
If you must insert additional steps, then have the Trollkin broo mate with
a gigantic worm or clam first.
Then the offspring of that mates with an insect of some type. Generally,
however, Broo prefer animals--they already have a better affinity with them
than they would with a Troll-ish being. Humans are good in a pinch, too.
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From: jiml@falcon.teleride.on.ca (Jim Lai)
Subject: Not Necessarily a Nysalor Riddle
Message-ID:
Date: 13 Jul 94 11:31:00 GMT
X-RQ-ID: 5143
|Date: Wed, 13 Jul 1994 03:15:17 -0400
|Subject: RuneQuest Daily, Wed, 13 Jul 1994, part 1
|From: alex@dcs.gla.ac.uk (Alex Ferguson)
|Subject: Bzzzzzz.
|X-RQ-ID: 5128
|> In Glorantha, Illusion is reality. [...] This is
|> one of the basic principles of Glorantha, and has many philosophic
|> and cultural implications.
|
|You Evil RQ2 Determinist, Sandy. I concur that Gloranthan illusions can't
|be "disbelieved" or other such solipsistic DnDisms, and are at least
|somewhat objective phenomena. But I snerk airily at the idea of Illusions
|Are Real as a One True Gloranthan Fact. As has been demonstrated by Jonas
|(I think?), you'll readily get innumerable different accounts from
|Gloranthans as to the truth, or indeed meaningfullness, of such an assertion.
Which only goes to show that this reality is too an illusion. QED. :)
|> The "Shanasse" were at one time used to refer to most of the
|> Heavenly Host in the Dara Happan culture.
|
|The name "Shanasse" is obviously an Elven Plot. Either they, or humans
|familiar with the aldryami name, decided to apply it to the denizens of
|heaven. [...] We need some glib, amoral sophist to give a
|superficially convincing account of why anyone would confuse Trees and
|Angels. Hrm. Nick?
Perhaps the Host makes up a virtual forest of angels? Maybe it was a
drunken, lecherous man who witnessed a dryad emerging from her tree and
decided that the heavenly host must have looked similar.
|Joerg asks of the the Long (time missing) Forms:
|> >How many cults (and which) are still in cold storage?
|
|Sandy's answer, filtered so that it actually addresses the question: ;-)
|> Invisible God, Horned God, Ancestor Worship, Hykim & Mikyh, Flamal,
|> Magasta, Red Goddess, Eurmal, Uleria, Bolongo, Mastakos.
|
|Are these likely to be published, leaked, or at least whispered about in
|dark crevices at Convulsion?
I forget which issue, but I recall there was a two-page writeup of Uleria in
an issue of Different Worlds. In an early issue of Heroes, there was an
adventure by Sandy which featured the Telemori and had some more information
than GoG did, but not a lot; Orlanth was covered at length. Uleria and
Orlanth were supposed to be from the then-upcoming GoG supplement. Is there
more that I've missed?
Could Ginna Jar have been related to Uleria?
I was puzzled by the requirements for membership in the four Orlanthi weapon
subcults, now that I think of it.
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From: vladt@interaccess.com (Kevin Rose)
Subject: stuff
Message-ID:
Date: 13 Jul 94 08:43:11 GMT
X-RQ-ID: 5144
Sandy: Sorcerers and Familiars
OK, Let me be more precise. No one, in any game I have been involved in
or have personal knowledge of, has created a familiar. They have though
about it and decided that it wasn't worth it. First you have to learn a
bunch of create familiar spells and train them up to at least 50%. Then
they get to make the decision of how much is a critter worth. How many
points of INT is a spiffy familiar worth, on average, to your players?
What do they do when they cast Create Familiar, sacrifice a couple of poin
ts of INT and miss the roll. "Gee, guess I always wanted to be a
familiarless 12 INT sorcerer. . .?"
The cheapest ones are Nymphs. They only cost you SIZ. (Another great stat
to lose. "So, why do they call him Zzabur the short?") The drawback being
that you have to convince them this is a good thing. Otherwise, they do
really vile things to you.
Or Vampires. They only need POW and SIZ. Of course, they might be a wee
bit uncooperative. ("Oh look, another insane adept wantabee. Can I rip
this one's throat out. . . Please?")
After that it gets pretty bad. Everyone I know feels that a couple of
points of POW are a much more reasonable cost for what amounts to a
convenient place to stick some spells and get some MPs. Any you can't
create the damn familiar without already havi ng built the tools to not
need it!
An Ally is free. It is a significant combat multiplier for the RL, as it
allows him to cast multiple divine and spirit spells each turn. A
sorcerers familiar can't do that. He can cast spirit magic, but he can't
know any, as it reduces the amount of IN T available to the sorcerer. And
he can't cast sorcery as it is all skill based. And dogs or staves have
trouble with the mystic words and gestures anyway.
So why build one?
++++++++++++++++++++
Loren: Initiates and belief
My thought has always been that initiates just have to go through the
motions, and be able to convince their priests of their devotion. Priests
and Lords are another matter. They are much more closely tied to the god,
and he knows whether they have fait h. The god may not, an probably
won't, realize that the priest has gone totally nuts and is doing weird
things in the honest belief that is the correct thing to do. But Orlanth
will know if a Wind Lord decides that he would really rather be a Yanifal
Ta rnils Sword.
Kevin Rose
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From: ASJWF@asuvm.inre.asu.edu (James Frusetta)
Subject: Free Will & Disbelievers
Message-ID: <01HENZGEWKYQ8WVYV2@asu.edu>
Date: 13 Jul 94 10:05:53 GMT
X-RQ-ID: 5145
Having followed Devin Cutler's "disbelief" thread, a couple of comments
about Loren Miller's comments of (5127). I had sent in something similar
to this, but didn't see it hit the digest -- the Internet Gorp God strikes
again... :(
IMHO, there does seem to be more "proof" that gods exist in Glorantha,
certainly for some groups. Trolls, elves, Daka Fals, Broos, scorpion men all
practice ancestor worship, and to deny ones' god's existence is to deny
your own place in the universe -- do Uz consider trolls who have forsaken
Kyger Litor as trolls? I suspect not. Would anyone else consider these
groups less likely to disbelieve? Even worse, if a group of broo give
Thed the heave-ho, they've basically rid themself of a protector while
they'll still be hunted down by the local Urox cult...
Also, (moving into diplomatic history, here) worshippers in Glorantha
have a second reason to "believe" in gods -- mutually perceived threat. If
you happen to be Ned Sartar, the world seems a dangerous place: chaos, Lunars,
trolls, god learners and sorcerors all over the place. Orlanth (or Urox,
or Humakt, etc.) provides a shield against all the bad things in the world,
and I assume that the majority of worshippers will "believe," at the very
least, in the protection Orlanth provides whether or not they believe in
specific myths or whatnot.
Finally, there's the question of divine retribution. Whether or not, say,
Zorak Zoran can stride around the landscape and smack things with his maul,
he can still send a vision/divination to a priest and have the local gang
do it. Thus, when Ned Troll decides "la, la, Zorak Zoran is a myth & I'm
just in this cult for the spells" and/if (depending on how much free will
you ascribe to the players) ZZ picks up on it, out goes Hell Roar. Depending
on whether or not priests have access to spirits of retribution, they may
do so as well -- "Hmm, Ned Troll hasn't been very generous with the tything
and keeps muttering during worship ceremonies. Time to send out the Death
Lord." I'm assuming if ZZ can figure out if you've left the cult, this
means _disbelief_ -- if not, what were all those RQ2 spirits of retribution
for? Initiates that politely requested to resign? (To which the local priest
responds, "The only way you leave this cult is feet first, buddy...")
Vaguely related to this -- how does illumination interact with the "religious
ecology?" Supposedly, Illumination allows you to alter the illuminate's
actions even in opposition to cult practices without (insert god here)
reacting. Can an illuminate hero, or a large enough group of illuminates,
change religious practices in a geographical area? I.e., if enough humakti
decide death is shaped like a spear (or something) can they literally change
the cult strictures and _get away with it_? (Without having outraged humakt
send cultists, or cut off power for rune magics, etc.) I raise this because
I'm curious what mechanisms exist to allow deviation within gloranthan-wide
cults...
=====================================================================
James Frusetta "Close the city and
ASJWF@ASUACAD.INRE.ASU.EDU tell the people that
State Press trolls are coming to call.
Box 871502 Death and darkness are
Tempe, AZ 85287-1502 rushing forward to
(602) 965-2292 take a bite from the walls."
=====================================================================
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From: Argrath@aol.com
Subject: Heortlander King
Message-ID: <9407132214.tn386541@aol.com>
Date: 14 Jul 94 02:14:54 GMT
X-RQ-ID: 5146
Joerg asks when & where I played the king of Heortland. This was a period of
a few years in the late '80's, in a campaign run by Eric Bracey. The first
episode of this campaign was the very best RPG session I have ever played in.
Much later in the campaign, Helge ended up getting killed by Beatpot Aelwrin
during the complete and utter destruction of Heortland, but so it goes. In
between, I engineered the Starbrow rebellion (she was supposed to be brought
back to Heortland, dammit!) and did other royal-type thingies. Damn fine
campaign, and I keep trying to get Eric to write some of it up (especially
that first episode).
--Argrath
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From: Ana@fenix.fipnet.fi (Antti_Heiskanen)
Subject: Do you have RQ3 Errata?
Message-ID: <9407131722.1e61@fenix.fipnet.fi>
Date: 14 Jul 94 05:22:18 GMT
X-RQ-ID: 5147
Hi,
If you have RQ3 Errata, please send it to ana@fenix.fipnet.fi.
Thanks,
-antti
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From: ANDOVER@delphi.com
Subject: the Gods
Message-ID: <01HEOBSAN6EA8X1XF1@delphi.com>
Date: 13 Jul 94 19:38:00 GMT
X-RQ-ID: 5148
>From KOS, page 88 (!) (The Gods agreed) "that they would not actively
intervene in each other's realms except in those ways which they had already done. They would not individually or consciously alter the world.
They would not even turn their awareness to it, unless called upon to do so."
This (Gloranthan) source suggests that Gloranthans have no trouble (or
at keast some Gloranthans have no trouble!) seeing the Gods as essentially
passive. And that they can't even watch TV about Glorantha! It still
leaves open the question of how they can react once their awareness is
"called upon." "Gaumata's Vision" suggests that they can pass messages
from one worshipper to another, as does "Rabbit Hat farm." In our gaming,
we only allow the Gods to respond to requests from worshippers, and limit
their information to that received from worshippers. But we wouldn't allow
those Cacodemon Ogres to get divine magic unless they were illuminates. On
the other hand, they COULD be initiates without illumination: the Gods
don't check on them as closely as they do those permanently tied to them
by Rune status. So in the bad-tempered debate that has flourished on this subject, we come out somewhere in the middle.
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From: mcarthur@fit.qut.edu.au (Robert McArthur)
Subject: elemental's tales
Message-ID: <199407140442.OAA15046@ocean.fit.qut.edu.au>
Date: 15 Jul 94 00:42:26 GMT
X-RQ-ID: 5149
Sandy writes
>...
> Still, shades
> are clearly a tremendous weapon on the battlefield, though relatively
> puny, compared to other elementals, in small adventurer-style melees.
>...
> Take my close-order infantry vs. shades example -- when the
> shades hit the troops, they impose fearshock on half of 'em, but are
> almost instantly killed, as the bunched-up troops slam into the
> shades with their axes/spears/what have you (shades are weak in the
> ol' HP dept.)
My favourite idea for a shade (or any elemental for that matter) is to cast
some nice magic on them - strength, mobility and 4 points of protection (RQ2
of course!) would make them rather harder to remove! If you really want the
shade to stay around, throw some shield on them! They are pretty terrible
in the damage they can cause - localised for some, widespread as Sandy shows
for others - but this makes them *much* worse.
Sadly I haven't had a chance to see how it works...yet.
Robert
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From: ddunham@radiomail.net (David Dunham)
Subject: Re: Ceremony; Illumination
Message-ID: <199407140506.AA19033@radiomail.net>
Date: 14 Jul 94 05:06:35 GMT
X-RQ-ID: 5150
Chris Johnson suggests
>An Idea! If we use a function of the Priest's POW as a modifier to their
>Cermony skill, we can *encurage* the Priest to keep a higher POW.
But it already is a modifier -- Ceremony is subject to the Magic modifier,
which depends on POW. (I hate modifiers which depend on POW, since you have
to keep changing them, but that's another story.) Not nearly as extreme a
modifier as you suggest, but it does have some effect.
Joerg ponders
>Illuminates might be able to produce untainted life force. Opinions?
Then illumination might be easier to detect.
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