From: RuneQuest-Request@Glorantha.Holland.Sun.COM (RQ Digest Maintainer) To: RuneQuest@Glorantha.Holland.Sun.COM (Daily automated RQ-Digest) Reply-To: RuneQuest@Glorantha.Holland.Sun.COM (RuneQuest Daily) Subject: RuneQuest Daily, Sun, 24 Jul 1994, part 1 Sender: Henk.Langeveld@Holland.Sun.COM Content-Return: Prohibited Precedence: junk X-RQ-ID: Intro This is the RuneQuest Daily Bulletin, a mailing list on the subjects of Avalon Hill's RPG and Greg Stafford's world of Glorantha. It is sent out once per day in digest format. More details on the RuneQuest Daily and Digest can be found after the last message in this digest. --------------------- From: ANDOVER@delphi.com Subject: Reading silently Message-ID: <01HF1NC2MMHE8ZFB5T@delphi.com> Date: 23 Jul 94 08:36:13 GMT X-RQ-ID: 5273 Saint Augustine wrote in wonder about Saint Ambrose, the Bishop of Milan (373-397) that he read without moving his lips. Ambrose, of course, was one of the key figures in the development of Christianity: "He guided Western Christianity toward many of the characteristic ideas and practices that endured through the Middle Ages. He established asceticism as an accepted Christian way of life under episcopal control. He asseted the righst of the church over the state. He extinguished the remains of Arainism in the West, and ended any hopes of a pagan revival among the Roman aristocracy. Though not a scholar on a par with Jerome and Augustine, he gave significant impetus to the application of Christian-Platonic exeggesis to Scripture in the West -- before it was too late. He molded the Western Christian liturgy and hymnody in the diection of congregagtional life. He was a busy, intolerant, and interfering man, but there was also a touch of political savvy and, on one occasion, even genius in his actions." In 390, after the Emperor Theodosius the Great perpetrated a massacre, "Excommunication until public penance had been performed was required by Ambrose and accepted by the Emperor. The first milestone on the road to Canossa had been set up on that day. The heinous character of Theodosius's crime justified Ambrose's action. A vital principle of Western society had also been established. A Christian moral order stood above the ruler or any reason of state. No arbitrary destruction of human life could pass without challenge by the Church. In the lasr resort a ruler's misgovernment could bring about his excommunication and deposition." (W.H.C. Frend, The Rise of Christianity) All this and he could read silently too! --------------------- From: RobMH@aol.com Subject: Re: RQ Daily, Sat, 23 Jul 1994, part 1 Message-ID: <9407231517.tn76848@aol.com> Date: 23 Jul 94 19:17:11 GMT X-RQ-ID: 5274 Bryan Maloney: I like Turnip Boy, the sort of low-level spillover w/o serious/combat oriented consequences that I would expect to see more of in a world of spirits and godlings. Elias Kadri: Yes, 'peloria' is a neat word; I asked about it a few years ago and half-remember being told there was a connection. Seems too perfect not to be intentional, the flowering of the goddess chaotic world happens in Peloria. Bryan again: Good comments on Etyries and Issaries. You've put me in mind of a cultic plot.... Consider a possible Lunar perspective: that Issaries, thanks to his relationship with Etyries and his addiction to the art of the deal, could be the weak link in the Lightbringers pantheon. I don't necessarily Believe it, but the idea could make an interesting thread upon which to string a dangerous necklace. Pam Carlson: Good point on using all the versions of Yelorna, the notion of a Peace Corps analog in Glorantha struck me as particularly amusing. Scott: The story about the monk learning he could read silently has something of the feel of apocrophya. It's a good story, but not one I could take extremely seriously. It may accurately reflect one current of medieval Europe, but I'm sure a great many literate peoples (and even Europeans) were reading silently before the monk's illumination. Watcha think? Jon Green: The mechanics of the Ogre-tainted 'plot' to subvert the Power of the Gods seem to work out OK. I can see it as a short story or as an example of Chaos' flailing polymorphous efforts to do some damage to the Compromise. But it's not the type of approach I'd want to base much of a game or world view around. --Rob Heinsoo --------------------- From: RobMH@aol.com Subject: Re: rq Daily, July 23, Harald Message-ID: <9407231517.tn76854@aol.com> Date: 23 Jul 94 19:17:25 GMT X-RQ-ID: 5275 Harald: You said, "I guess through all of this I'm trying to forge a balance that makes the world realistic (since large magical availability does alter the way humans interact with the world) and yet wondrous at the same time." This is certainly the approach I enjoy most; discussions of magical effects that turn into mini-maxed technological applications kill the sense of wonder; local spirits and unpredictable personalities within the fabric of the world help restore the sense in which the world is an active group of participants, what you called magical vitality. I'm not familiar with the Viking supplement, how much of it did you find useful along these lines? Just a few pages? I guess I understand why this Magic Vitality booster shot came out in a real world oriented supplement instead of coming out of Glorantha, but I'd like to see the same spirit blossom more often in Glorantha. --Rob Heinsoo --------------------- From: RobMH@aol.com Subject: A Question You May Have Answered Already Message-ID: <9407231844.tn81854@aol.com> Date: 23 Jul 94 22:44:13 GMT X-RQ-ID: 5276 Which God or Goddess do you identify with most? If you were a Gloranthan avatar of yourself, which cult do you think you would belong to? For myself, I believe I'd be Issaries Silvertongue. Not because of any affinity for trade, more for the communication aspects, and because I tend to acquire items and information and pass them on where they're needed instead of hanging on to them. I hadn't thought of the Issaries connection until a friend made the ID. At first I didn't care for it, but it seems true enough. If your Gloranthan avatar isn't a member of a cult at all, I'd be curious to hear who they are. --Rob Heinsoo --------------------- From: russell@tartarus.uwa.edu.au (Fang!) Subject: Ogre Ogre Message-ID:Date: 24 Jul 94 17:45:34 GMT X-RQ-ID: 5277 Rusty here Why do Ogres eat sapient men? Why not just eat herd-man or herd-animal, for that matter? I guess it could be some religious (Cacodemon?) or macho thing for ogres to hunt dangerous, sapient prey, but would they eat men regularly? (as suggested by the description of the Pola clan in SotB) WOOF! [Down Fang!:russell@tartarus.uwa.edu.au] --------------------- From: strauss@hopper.itc.virginia.edu (John Strauss) Subject: chance and fate Message-ID: <199407240430.AA42247@Hopper.itc.Virginia.EDU> Date: 23 Jul 94 20:30:25 GMT X-RQ-ID: 5278 O Gloranthan Smart Guys: I have a pretty good handle on the power runes, for the most part. Except for one pair, Chance and Fate. Would someone who feels comfortable with them please talk about that runepair? What do they mean, both in and out of Time? Where do they get their form? What uses do Gloranthans put them to? John Strauss strauss@hopper.itc.virginia.edu --------------------- From: bchugg@leland.stanford.edu (Barron Chugg) Subject: Initiate Progression Message-ID: <199407240649.XAA03922@popserver.Stanford.EDU> Date: 23 Jul 94 15:51:27 GMT X-RQ-ID: 5279 Hello All. At the suggestion of David Dunham, I've made some notes following up on my idea about initiates regaining rune magic. The basic premis I am starting with is that initiation should be more than just a way station on the way to rune level. In fact, since most games take place at the 50-90% level, and thus most characters are going to be initiates, there should be more to initiatehood than cheap training, spirit magic and, occasionally, one-use rune magic. That said, on to the meat. So, most people that reach initiate status (that is, almost anyone in the cult), stays there. For most the basic benifits (be they cultural, or material) of initiation are more than sufficient. Perhaps only 5% or less of the initiated ever go any further in their cult. For these few, the cult will use their initiation period as a time of testing and training. First the elders of the cult must ascertain whether the person has "what it takes" to rise higher. Is the person sufficiently pious? Are they able to interpret dogma reasonably (in the eyes of the elders)? Do they follow the spirit of the God? Are they complete fruitcakes? All these things must be ascertained. In the case of those seeking to become rune lords there are further questions: Are they promising enough fighters? Do they display the material aspects of the God? Are they willing to die for the religion? (And, I'll bet, a whole host of other questions.) For the people with the ambition to rise in the cult (read, most PCs), initiation is a serious job. I can't really picture a cult initiationg someone, then having them go off robbing tombs (read, "adventuring"), coming back five years later and saying, "Ok, make me a priest...". A bit flippant (OK, a lot), but this is how it looks in the rules. Anyway, my idea is to add some internal structure to initiation. There is already one obvious one: You only get the runemagic (RM) that the priests say you do. This is a good start, but lets go farther. First off, as I have mentioned before, I like the idea of initiates getting a point of their RM back at HHD (High Holy Day). This reflects the fact that they _have_ been shown the path by their priest, but that they require a lot of help walking it. (Note: I'll be using my path terminology a lot in this post. Does this make me a path-ologist? (quickly ducks)) So on the day when the "spirit of the God" is most present, they are able to regain a minor spell. Now, a favored initiate (probably called a "candidate") is first going to be allowed more RM. Further, they will begin to assist the priests at the holy days (starting off as "alter-boys" and moving up). This will require that they spend more time training in the ceremonies/lore of the cult and that they arrive earlier and stay later for holy days (say a few days on either side). At the highest level they are probably assisting a priest in weekly rituals for a season at a time. At some point (probably when their Ceremony skill is high enough) the itiatiate can begin to regain a point of RM at Seasonal Holy Days (SHDs). The price of this is that they are probably now donating 20% of their time to the cult (or maybe 25%, whatever). If they don't arrive early enough for a SHD, they will be demoted back to alter-boy and will lose the benifit of regaining magic. The next part of the candidate's life is the testing. Afterall, the priests must be certain that the initiate displays the proper virtues required by the cult. So a Storm Bull cultist might be told to go fight some totally overwhelming chaos foe ("You there, Valrin Wide-Shoulders. Go kill the Chaos Gaggle that is wandering the Bleak Hills."). All that is required is for the initiate to salute and start off to fulfill the task (probably to find a bunch of priests with a keg waiting for him in this case). (I remember someone posting a SB initiation ritual like this that was _very_ appropriate.) Orlanthi initiates might be put in "must fail" situations to see if they then try to right their wrongs. A Humakti would be forced to face their own death to prove that they do not fear it. All in all, it's probably a total crock for the initiate, almost like a ritual hazing. Mean? Probably, but think of it from the priest's perspective. Here's this person who may someday face the _real_ dangers of the priesthood (remember, all HQs are opposed), they have to be ready. All this time, the candidate is doing various adventury tasks for the heirarchy as well. But, as they advance, their benifits increase. Aside from more quickly regaining RM, they should get more frequent skill checks in Ceremony and related skills of the cult. They should gain some free training in cult lore and maybe some other "bureacratic" skills. They also gain access to more people and resources (the "old boy network" as it were). All this should make the initiate state much more interesting. Further, the GM should come up with some details of the ceremonies that the PC is involved with and what role they play (with an emphasis on the fact that more interesting/central roles will become available if they are devout). The GM may also wont to come up with some "inner cult lore" that is not known to the general initiate and can be learned by the candidate (like the locations of holy sites, or the basics of HQing). So, over all, the progression is from "casual" worshipper all the way to assistant to the priest. As the candidate moves upward more and more of their time is required (like whole seasons near the end). This should be offered to the PC as a good thing, making their confirmation as a RLvl more certain and gaining them valuable knowlege and contacts. Well, this is a pretty rough outline with almost no rules tacked on, but I think it will add some flavor. The next step is to make the progress different between different cults, and, finally, to make it different between the same cult in different regions. (Peter Michaels posted a great bit for this (Hearts of Humakti) that should give any GM a useful format for regional variation and progression ("Ah, it is time for you to sacrifice your Heart of Charity...").) On that...good luck, this is more than enough for me for now... Barron --------------------- From: Urox@aol.com Subject: Soloquest Message-ID: <9407240256.tn92828@aol.com> Date: 24 Jul 94 06:56:12 GMT X-RQ-ID: 5280