From: RuneQuest-Request@Glorantha.Holland.Sun.COM (RQ Digest Maintainer) To: RuneQuest@Glorantha.Holland.Sun.COM (Daily automated RQ-Digest) Reply-To: RuneQuest@Glorantha.Holland.Sun.COM (RuneQuest Daily) Subject: RuneQuest Daily, Wed, 27 Jul 1994, part 2 Sender: Henk.Langeveld@Holland.Sun.COM Content-Return: Prohibited Precedence: junk --------------------- From: mmorrison@VNET.IBM.COM (Michael C. Morrison 8-543-4706) Subject: RuneQuest Daily, Thu, 21 Jul 1994, part 2 Message-ID: <1994Jul26.141339.07743@vnet.ibm.com> Date: 26 Jul 94 21:13:39 GMT X-RQ-ID: 5307 *** Reply to note of Thu, 21 Jul 94 09:16:36 +0200 *** by RuneQuest-Request@Glorantha.Holland.Sun.COM Sorry if we've moved on from this, but I'm a few days behind in my reading. Subject: Scripts and Mundanity Cullen quotes David from X-RQ-ID: 5221 D> I was referring to the different dialects of Chinese (though a D> situation analogous to Japanese Kanji is certainly not impossible, I D> just can't think of any Gloranthan analogues). Cullen writes: C> The difficulty I have with this is that it would mean learning the C> language was incredibly difficult. I'm studying Japanese and learning a C> phonetic language is abreeze compared to learning what each Kanji means C> and what exactly they mean in conjunction. Are you proposing a magical C> method of learning in Hrestoli areas so that learning how to read late C> in life is not an (almost) impossible task? Your example is of a foreigner learning Japanese. The Japanese spoken language is no easier or harder than any other -- for the native. The written language is more difficult in some respects than our semi- phonetic script, but if you're brought up with it, accustomed to it, it's not so bad. And there are some ways that a Kanji system is *easier* than ours; for example, the Kanji for tree looks sorta like a tree, and the Kanji for forest is three trees -- tree/forest in a phonetic script look nothing alike. So, learning Hrestoli as a foreigner should be more difficult if your own native script has a different system. C> I find your idea interesting, I don't see why a Latin or Sanskrit model C> wouldn't work just as well, with a seperate language for writing things C> down in from what is generally spoken (Latin) or a shared alphabet that C> can represent several languages (Sanskrit). C> C> Another example would be Greek which was used to represent several C> languages and evolved into Coptic and Cyrilic (and influenced several C> others such as Latin). Note that Cyrilic is also used to represent C> several different languages. C> C> Perhaps a Russian model would work better than a West European one? I disagree. The Cyrillic script is used (with modifications) across northern Asia, but unless you know the language, your can read Russian at 100% and read, say, Mongolian at 0%. The situation is the same for English and, say, Polish -- both use the same (almost) script. I think the Kanji model is best. Or any ideographic model. ------------------------------------------------------------------------- David writes: D> > just plain WRONG to anyone able to read it. Before mass literacy, the fact D> > that the written form of the language isn't the same as what people are D> > saying should come as no surprise at all. D> > D> Actually, it was my impression that at the beginnings of mass literacy, the D> written form was closer to what people actually said than it is today, as D> spelling was less formalised and more phonetic. I agree. Spelling, before dictionaries and mass-produced written media (newspapers, cheap books), was very phonetic. Now to what extent Lhankor Mhy priests have standardised the language, I don't know. :-) ------------------------------------------------------------------------- Joerg writes: J> Another thing about medieval Latin is that it was writ. in horr. abbrev. J> which had no relat. to the spok. lang. whatsoever, so you could perfectly J> well hide the local variants of Vulgata behind abbreviations. This is how J> I figured out written Western. In its most retarded form, the abbrevations J> have been replaced by handy symbols, and the whole is called Tradetalk. This observation could be the foundation for a good model for the West (if you don't like Kanji). Consider it a kind of shorthand that everyone who reads/writes learns and understands. It reminds me of Biblical Hebrew -- no vowels to show dialects. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Michael C. Morrison IMS Information Development Tieline 8-543-4706 Santa Teresa Lab, San Jose, California (SWS) Phone (408)463-4706 Bitnet ID: MCM at VNET Fax (408)463-4101 Internet ID: MORRISON@STLVM27.VNET.IBM.COM IBM Mail Exchange ID: USIB47H4 at IBMMAIL or USIB4MCM at IBMMAIL X.400 Address: G=mcmgm; S=morrison; P=ibmmail; A=ibmx400; C=us ----------------------------------------------------------------------- --------------------- From: SMITHH@A1.MGH.HARVARD.EDU (Harald Smith 617 726-2172) Subject: an earth mother story Message-ID: <01HF64ZNSCOWQZHESH@MR.MGH.HARVARD.EDU> Date: 26 Jul 94 12:17:00 GMT X-RQ-ID: 5308 - For those of you who are interested in another Imtherian tale, I offer up the following legend pertaining to the earth mother, Nealda. The Sleep of Nealda by Harald Smith (There are a number of different versions about the long sleep of Nealda. This version is common to the Southlands of Imther, particularly amongst the Argon, Mallust, Mastine, and Valusi marls.) When Nealda was taken by Orlantio, Orlantio thought to have his way with the goddess for he desired her greatly. But Nealda was a mystery to Orlantio and he could not enter her. So Orlantio traded Nealda to his brother Orak, the Hell Wind, who also desired the goddess, for a pair of sandals which could always hide his movements in the dark. Orak carried Nealda down into the depths of the world for Orak thought to have his way with the goddess, though he desired to do so in secret. When Orak reached the deep hell, he placed Nealda upon a bed of darkness and tried to take her, but she was a mystery to Orak and he could not enter her. Orak was enraged by this treachery and he cried, 'You have tricked me foul goddess! But I will not be detered. You shall lay here until I can find the secret to enter you.' Orak stormed off to find the answer to this riddle. At first Nealda cried for she was alone upon this bed of darkness and far from her true love Khelmal. Gradually, though, her tears grew less and less frequent and she grew drowsy and fell asleep. It was a deep sleep, a sleep within the dark places of the world, for she was close to the Land of Dreams. Orak returned once and could not wake her. So he tried to take her while she slept, but she remained a mystery to him and he left again in a rage. 'First she keeps me from entering her,' he shouted, 'and now she will not even answer my call. She will pay for this treachery.' But Nealda kept sleeping and the darkness grew around her until she was completely hidden from the world and only Orak knew her whereabouts. Orak meanwhile continued to search for a way to enter her. He went to his brother Valind and asked him if he knew how to do so. 'Ah, brother, you must freeze her to the bone so she is hard and brittle and then you must break the shell from her. That is how you can enter her.' Orak borrowed Valind's Chilling Cloak and returned to the sleeping Nealda. He draped the cloak over her unmoving body and waited. When the body was cold enough, he took his great club and hammered her until she broke into many pieces. But he could not find a way to enter her and her spirit slept on. (Note: some versions say that Orak's seed froze, too, when trying to enter her and grew to form the Ice Maidens.) He returned to Valind in a fury. 'This cloak of yours was useless. Once broken there was nothing left to enter!' 'Well it always worked for me.' Valind replied coldly. "I have tasks to attend to, so go bother someone else.' Orak left and continued to search for a way to enter Nealda. He found Lodrem, the deep fire walking through the depths of hell. Though the two had often fought, Orak made a sign for peace. Orak asked Lodril if he knew how to put Nealda back together and how to enter her. 'Ah, dark-visaged foe of mine, you must melt her to the bone so she is hot and supple. Then you must mix her back together. Finally, when she is restored, you must merge yourself with her. That is how you can enter her.' Orak borrowed Lodrem's Burning Mantle and returned to the sleeping and broken Nealda. He draped the mantle over her broken body and waited. When the body was hot enough, he molded her together into one piece. He then lay next to her and tried to merge himself to her. But she was far too hot and Orak was badly burned and scarred. And he could not find a way to enter her. Nealda's spirit slept on. (Note: some versions say that Orak's seed boiled and grew to form the Blood Queen Balurga.) He returned to Lodrem in a fury, howling in pain from his scars. 'This mantle of yours was useless. Once molded there was no place to enter! And look at me--I am horrible now to behold!' 'Well it always worked for me.' Lodrem replied hotly. 'I have tasks to attend to so go bother someone else.' Orak was obsessed about entering Nealda. He scoured the world high and low, his hellish winds driving all away. He searched the tormented seas and the pits of evil to find a way. He searched through the ghostly tomes and to the gate to the void. But he could find no way to enter her. Finally, he came to the place where Khelmal, his eternal foe, walked. 'Hold foe for I come to make you an offer.' Khelmal did not trust Orak (and rightly so for Orak certainly planned to renege on his offer), but he bid him speak for he desired to recover his love, Nealda. Orak said haughtily, 'I will return your Nealda to you, but only after you tell me how to enter her.' Khelmal considered this for awhile and then agreed. 'There are five tasks you must perform to do this. But only if you can perform these tasks can you enter her Do you wish to perform these tasks?' 'I do!' Orak hastily answered for he was always impatient. 'Very well. First, you must build a fire pit, a home for the goddess Ralaska.' 'Why should I do so?' Orak asked suspiciously since this hardly sounded necessary to enter Nealda. 'Because it creates the marriage bed,' answered Khelmal. Orak nodded and agreed. He set to making the fire pit, digging a find large hole, placing flagstones at the bottom, setting stones to hold back the dirt, and finally placing a heated coal from the underearth within the pit. The hearth blazed merrily away. 'Very good,' said Khelmal. 'Now, for your second task, you must build a fine stone building with four stout walls and a roof of slate around this fire pit.' 'Why should I do so?' Orak asked, wondering of what use a building could be. 'Because Nealda is bashful and cannot be entered in view of everyone,' responded Khelmal. Orak nodded and agreed. He gathered fine stone and dark slate for the building, making the walls high and square, setting the slate on top, and leaving an opening to go in and out. The building grew warm and cozy around the hearth protected from the fierce winds that followed Orak. 'Very good,' said Khelmal. 'Now, for your third task, you must fetch the Finenosed Hound and place it at the entrance to the building.' 'Why should I do so?' Orak asked for the Finenosed Hound was a demonic animal of fierce temperament who could always find his foes. 'Because you must have a fierce animal to guard the entrance so you and Nealda are not interrupted,' said Khelmal in reply. Orak nodded and agreed. He gathered up his snares and weapons and a blackened sack and sought the Finenosed Hound. He found the beast at the Last Blood Pool and after a long, terrible fight, Orak stuffed the hound into the sack and returned it to the building. The building was now well guarded from harm and intruders. 'Very good,' said Khelmal. 'Now, for your fourth task, you must bring Nealda here to this building beside this fire pit, for only in this building can she be entered.' Orak did not question this for it seemed to be required. He descended into the darkest hell, past the Land of Dreams, to the bed where Nealda lay inert and sleeping. Orak lifted her up and carried her to the building. Inside he set her by the hearth. 'Very good,' said Khelmal. 'Now you must perform the final task to satisfy all the conditions. You must pluck the White Rose of the Stygian Shore and return here with it.' 'Why should I do so?' Orak asked for he knew not of this White Rose and could think of no reason to pluck it. 'Because Nealda requires a gift of wonder if you are to enter her,' answered Khelmal. So Orak nodded and agreed and he set off for the Stygian Shore to find the White Rose. When Orak had gone, though, Khelmal entered the building. He fed the Finenosed Hound and gently stroked its muzzle so that it was happy and content. Khelmal then set it to guard the entry. He came to Nealda's side and lay beside the sleeping goddess. He whispered in her ear, into her dreams, 'I offer you a hearth and home. I offer you a guardian for your sleep and my love you your waking hours. As my gift to you I offer hope.' Raising then his Spear of Hope, Khelmal entered the sleeping goddess. She awoke then to find herself in a wonderful home beside a glowing hearth with a fine guardian at her door and with her true love beside her. Life stirred within her and they laughed and loved in joy. Orak, having failed to find the White Rose, returned to ask Khelmal how to find it. But when he heard Nealda's laugh he knew he was tricked by his foe. He gathered his fury and was ready to rage when Khelmal stepped to the door. 'You have heard the tasks required to enter Nealda and you have now returned Nealda to my side. Our bargain is complete. Begone from here for Nealda is my wife. Here we have hearth and home and friends to shelter us from darkest winds. Here we have love and hope to protect us from darkest despair. It is these last, though, that are the keys and you will never have them. So begone!' Khelmal stood firm at the door. Orak raged, his winds howled about him. 'Cheat and liar!' Orak screamed, 'I shall slay you!' Then Khelmal released the Finenosed Hound and the demon beast tore at Orak. Not to be daunted a second time, the hound ate the tendons of the dark god's arms. Then Khelmal commanded his first sons, Mastus and Malus, Valus and Argus to seize the dark-visaged one. They each seized a limb and bound the limbs together. Finally, Khelmal came and took the blackened sack of Orak and stuffed Orak within the sack. And following the instructions of Nealda, Khelmal carried the sack to the Land of Dreams and cast it into the depths of that land so that Orak can now only find us in nightmares. --------------------- From: 100102.3001@compuserve.com (Peter J. Whitelaw) Subject: You asked for it, Barron Message-ID: <940726224050_100102.3001_BHJ78-1@CompuServe.COM> Date: 26 Jul 94 22:40:51 GMT X-RQ-ID: 5309 Barron says: >Looking forward to Convulsion reports... What superlatives may I use? Not that I want to make you green with envy (well, OK, just a little maybe) but I enjoyed my first Convulsion very much. I have played RQ for 12-13 years with the same group, half of which (i.e. two of us) were at Convulsion. It was fascinating talking to people about their interpretations of Glorantha and how they play RQ/PDP/whatever. I had the opportunity to meet the 'big guns' (ballistae?) of the RQ world / Gloranthiverse - and what a fine set of people they were - very friendly, helpful and approachable. It was nice to hear Greg confess that he doesn't know what is going on in much of the Lozenge (Seshnela - don't mess with me, Kralorela - who knows?). There was a fine and diverse assortment of hats at the freeform which, as far as I understand it, did not go well for the Rokari. Notslor the Holy monk (Ken Rolston, resplendant in his wraparound sheet) declared the Ecclesiarch, Theoblanc, (de MOB) heretic the latter having previously moved to have Notslor declared a living saint! Our noble Ecclesiarch forgave himself his sins but I think the trend was set by then. An hour or so after I was out I saw de MOB in the bar (student prices) so you can guess the rest. There were some fine seminars - RQ renaissance, Meet the Tales, Nick Brooke Cultural Exchange, Greg Staffords address. Also, there were RQ/PenDragon/Cthulhu tournaments. Many other games were being played as well. I played in a particularly fine playtest of a forthcoming Elric scenario. Hot gossip? Well, don't ever expect to see HQ rules from Chaosium. Do expect to see more source material - a lot has been prepared over the years much of which has never seen print - Chaosium intend to publish much of this themselves. RQAiG is not going to be RQ4 (but we knew that) - it had lots of good ideas but would have invalidated everything in print to date. I forget what was said about RQ4 other than that. Typical. The auction had quite a few goodies up for grabs including Nephilim drafts, a Lunar book draft, an Ocean book draft, Sandy's campaign guide. One Trollpak went for 70 quid, whilst noone bid for the second at its reserve price of 40. A CoC 1st ed. went for a fiver whilst, towards the end, a CoT couldn't find a buyer at 15 spons whilst one had earlier gone for about 25. There was one helluva lot of junk up as well - Shadowrun stuff was going for a couple of quid a batch. 'Meet the Daily' was worthwhile also, from a technical as well as from a social perspective. Funnily enough it would appear that one's height is directly proportional to the amount one contributes to the Daily. Devin, be warned, Alex and Joerg are anything but vertically challenged ;-) In conclusion, a lot of beer, gaming and socialising. What more do you need? Convulsion was a Good Thing. Roll on 95! All the best, Peter --------------------- From: jiml@falcon.teleride.on.ca (Jim Lai) Subject: What is it with this recent interest in female warriors? Message-ID: Date: 26 Jul 94 15:41:00 GMT X-RQ-ID: 5310 Not that I'm complaining. I'm all for it. Could someone tell me who was the woman on the cover of the second-edition rulesbook? begin{GodLearnerMode} Ok, just because one can pull a Goddess Swap doesn't mean that the entities involved are the same. They merely have aspects which resemble each other. In which case, it's possible that the many local deities in the Thousand Isles (er, where is one's GoG when one needs it?) also incorporates woman warrior archetypes. After all, the sheer number does defy cataloging. Now, does anyone think it possible that there is some form of eunuch warrior practice/worship going on anywhere in Glorantha? (A more extreme example of sacrifice than the proposed Hearts of Humakt?) Kralorea seems like a good candidate. Fnord. end{GodLearnerMode} >From: ddunham@radiomail.net (David Dunham) >Subject: Vinga >X-RQ-ID: 5300 >In the "Adventures in Glorantha" draft, Vinga is mentioned as a subcult of >Orlanth [...] >I figure the subcult doesn't have priestesses, only rune ladies (and MAYBE >acolytes). Anyone have a better name for them? Wind Maidens? Valkyries? (Only a half-smiley on the latter.) Storm Daughters? Zephyrs? And why am I suddenly getting the image of an Issiaries Rune Lord named Jakafal who trades in various skills? Or would that be a more Lhankor Mhy thing to do? --------------------- From: mmorrison@VNET.IBM.COM (Michael C. Morrison 8-543-4706) Subject: RuneQuest Daily, Fri, 22 Jul 1994, part 1 Message-ID: <1994Jul26.172650.49897@vnet.ibm.com> Date: 27 Jul 94 00:26:50 GMT X-RQ-ID: 5311 *** Reply to note of Fri, 22 Jul 94 09:15:25 +0200 *** by RuneQuest-Request@Glorantha.Holland.Sun.COM Subject: HeroQuest Elias writes: E> Which leads me to ask: Does anyone have or know of any good E> rules for heroquests? Something that would allow a scenario E> to be constructed and played? I seem to keep running into E> the problem of characters outgrowing the usual challenges, E> and short of sending ever-increasing numbers of bad guys E> after them, the only alternative seems to be to retire the E> character. Any suggestions? If you have access to America Online, look under games (keyword guild -- I think ... I'm not on AOL right now). There is a file called HERO2 written by Steve Maurer that is excellent. Greg may write HQ someday, but until then, Steve's write-up will do very well for allowing you to use HeroQuesting in a campaign. Jon writes: J> Well, I was at the Con and I am pleased to be able to tell you that Greg J> said that he will write them 'next year' ;-) It's my impression that Greg's said this many, many times before. I *hope* he actually does it this time! ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Michael C. Morrison IMS Information Development Tieline 8-543-4706 Santa Teresa Lab, San Jose, California (SWS) Phone (408)463-4706 Bitnet ID: MCM at VNET Fax (408)463-4101 Internet ID: MORRISON@STLVM27.VNET.IBM.COM IBM Mail Exchange ID: USIB47H4 at IBMMAIL or USIB4MCM at IBMMAIL X.400 Address: G=mcmgm; S=morrison; P=ibmmail; A=ibmx400; C=us -----------------------------------------------------------------------