Bell Digest v940727p2

From: RuneQuest-Request@Glorantha.Holland.Sun.COM (RQ Digest Maintainer)
To: RuneQuest@Glorantha.Holland.Sun.COM (Daily automated RQ-Digest)
Reply-To: RuneQuest@Glorantha.Holland.Sun.COM (RuneQuest Daily)
Subject: RuneQuest Daily, Wed, 27 Jul 1994, part 2
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From: mmorrison@VNET.IBM.COM (Michael C. Morrison 8-543-4706)
Subject: RuneQuest Daily, Thu, 21 Jul 1994, part 2
Message-ID: <1994Jul26.141339.07743@vnet.ibm.com>
Date: 26 Jul 94 21:13:39 GMT
X-RQ-ID: 5307

*** Reply to note of Thu, 21 Jul 94 09:16:36 +0200
*** by RuneQuest-Request@Glorantha.Holland.Sun.COM

Sorry if we've moved on from this, but I'm a few days behind in my
reading.


Subject: Scripts and Mundanity

Cullen quotes David from X-RQ-ID: 5221
D>    I was referring to the different dialects of Chinese (though a
D> situation analogous to Japanese Kanji is certainly not impossible, I
D> just can't think of any Gloranthan analogues).

Cullen writes:
C> The difficulty I have with this is that it would mean learning the
C> language was incredibly difficult.  I'm studying Japanese and learning a
C> phonetic language is abreeze compared to learning what each Kanji means
C> and what exactly they mean in conjunction.  Are you proposing a magical
C> method of learning in Hrestoli areas so that learning how to read late
C> in life is not an (almost) impossible task?

   Your example is of a foreigner learning Japanese.  The Japanese spoken
   language is no easier or harder than any other -- for the native.  The
   written language is more difficult in some respects than our semi-
   phonetic script, but if you're brought up with it, accustomed to it,
   it's not so bad.  And there are some ways that a Kanji system is
   *easier* than ours; for example, the Kanji for tree looks sorta like
   a tree, and the Kanji for forest is three trees -- tree/forest in
   a phonetic script look nothing alike.

   So, learning Hrestoli as a foreigner should be more difficult if
   your own native script has a different system.

C> I find your idea interesting, I don't see why a Latin or Sanskrit model
C> wouldn't work just as well, with a seperate language for writing things
C> down in from what is generally spoken (Latin) or a shared alphabet that
C> can represent several languages (Sanskrit).
C>
C> Another example would be Greek which was used to represent several
C> languages and evolved into Coptic and Cyrilic (and influenced several
C> others such as Latin).  Note that Cyrilic is also used to represent
C> several different languages.
C>
C> Perhaps a Russian model would work better than a West European one?

   I disagree.  The Cyrillic script is used (with modifications) across
   northern Asia, but unless you know the language, your can read
   Russian at 100% and read, say, Mongolian at 0%.  The situation is
   the same for English and, say, Polish -- both use the same (almost)
   script.

   I think the Kanji model is best.  Or any ideographic model.

-------------------------------------------------------------------------
David writes:
D> > just plain WRONG to anyone able to read it. Before mass literacy, the fact
D> > that the written form of the language isn't the same as what people are
D> > saying should come as no surprise at all.
D> >
D> Actually, it was my impression that at the beginnings of mass literacy, the
D> written form was closer to what people actually said than it is today, as
D> spelling was less formalised and more phonetic.

   I agree.  Spelling, before dictionaries and mass-produced written
   media (newspapers, cheap books), was very phonetic.  Now to what
   extent Lhankor Mhy priests have standardised the language, I don't
   know.  :-)

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Joerg writes:
J> Another thing about medieval Latin is that it was writ. in horr. abbrev.
J> which had no relat. to the spok. lang. whatsoever, so you could perfectly
J> well hide the local variants of Vulgata behind abbreviations. This is how
J> I figured out written Western. In its most retarded form, the abbrevations
J> have been replaced by handy symbols, and the whole is called Tradetalk.

   This observation could be the foundation for a good model for the
   West (if you don't like Kanji).  Consider it a kind of shorthand that
   everyone who reads/writes learns and understands.  It reminds me of
   Biblical Hebrew -- no vowels to show dialects.

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Michael C. Morrison    IMS Information Development  Tieline  8-543-4706
Santa Teresa Lab, San Jose, California    (SWS)     Phone (408)463-4706
Bitnet ID:             MCM at VNET                  Fax   (408)463-4101
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From: SMITHH@A1.MGH.HARVARD.EDU (Harald Smith 617 726-2172)
Subject: an earth mother story
Message-ID: <01HF64ZNSCOWQZHESH@MR.MGH.HARVARD.EDU>
Date: 26 Jul 94 12:17:00 GMT
X-RQ-ID: 5308

- For those of you who are interested in another Imtherian tale, I offer 
up the following legend pertaining to the earth mother, Nealda.

The Sleep of Nealda
by Harald Smith

(There are a number of different versions about the long sleep of 
Nealda.  This version is common to the Southlands of Imther, 
particularly amongst the Argon, Mallust, Mastine, and Valusi marls.)

When Nealda was taken by Orlantio, Orlantio thought to have his way with 
the goddess for he desired her greatly.  But Nealda was a mystery to 
Orlantio and he could not enter her.  So Orlantio traded Nealda to his 
brother Orak, the Hell Wind, who also desired the goddess, for a pair of 
sandals which could always hide his movements in the dark.

Orak carried Nealda down into the depths of the world for Orak thought 
to have his way with the goddess, though he desired to do so in secret.  
When Orak reached the deep hell, he placed Nealda upon a bed of darkness 
and tried to take her, but she was a mystery to Orak and he could not 
enter her.

Orak was enraged by this treachery and he cried, 'You have tricked me 
foul goddess!  But I will not be detered.  You shall lay here until I 
can find the secret to enter you.'  Orak stormed off to find the answer 
to this riddle.

At first Nealda cried for she was alone upon this bed of darkness and 
far from her true love Khelmal.  Gradually, though, her tears grew less 
and less frequent and she grew drowsy and fell asleep.  It was a deep 
sleep, a sleep within the dark places of the world, for she was close to 
the Land of Dreams.

Orak returned once and could not wake her.  So he tried to take her 
while she slept, but she remained a mystery to him and he left again in 
a rage.  'First she keeps me from entering her,' he shouted, 'and now 
she will not even answer my call.  She will pay for this treachery.'

But Nealda kept sleeping and the darkness grew around her until she was 
completely hidden from the world and only Orak knew her whereabouts.  
Orak meanwhile continued to search for a way to enter her.  He went to 
his brother Valind and asked him if he knew how to do so.  'Ah, brother, 
you must freeze her to the bone so she is hard and brittle and then you 
must break the shell from her.  That is how you can enter her.'

Orak borrowed Valind's Chilling Cloak and returned to the sleeping 
Nealda.  He draped the cloak over her unmoving body and waited.  When 
the body was cold enough, he took his great club and hammered her until 
she broke into many pieces.  But he could not find a way to enter her 
and her spirit slept on.

(Note: some versions say that Orak's seed froze, too, when trying to 
enter her and grew to form the Ice Maidens.)

He returned to Valind in a fury.  'This cloak of yours was useless.  
Once broken there was nothing left to enter!'


'Well it always worked for me.'  Valind replied coldly.  "I have tasks 
to attend to, so go bother someone else.'

Orak left and continued to search for a way to enter Nealda.  He found 
Lodrem, the deep fire walking through the depths of hell.  Though the 
two had often fought, Orak made a sign for peace.  Orak asked Lodril if 
he knew how to put Nealda back together and how to enter her.  'Ah, 
dark-visaged foe of mine, you must melt her to the bone so she is hot 
and supple.  Then you must mix her back together.  Finally, when she is 
restored, you must merge yourself with her.  That is how you can enter 
her.'

Orak borrowed Lodrem's Burning Mantle and returned to the sleeping and 
broken Nealda.  He draped the mantle over her broken body and waited.  
When the body was hot enough, he molded her together into one piece.  He 
then lay next to her and tried to merge himself to her.  But she was far 
too hot and Orak was badly burned and scarred.  And he could not find a 
way to enter her.  Nealda's spirit slept on.

(Note: some versions say that Orak's seed boiled and grew to form the 
Blood Queen Balurga.)

He returned to Lodrem in a fury, howling in pain from his 
scars.  'This mantle of yours was useless.  Once molded 
there was no place to enter!  And look at me--I am horrible 
now to behold!'

'Well it always worked for me.'  Lodrem replied hotly.  'I 
have tasks to attend to so go bother someone else.'

Orak was obsessed about entering Nealda.  He scoured the 
world high and low, his hellish winds driving all away.  He 
searched the tormented seas and the pits of evil to find a 
way.  He searched through the ghostly tomes and to the gate 
to the void.  But he could find no way to enter her.  
Finally, he came to the place where Khelmal, his eternal 
foe, walked.  'Hold foe for I come to make you an offer.'

Khelmal did not trust Orak (and rightly so for Orak 
certainly planned to renege on his offer), but he bid him 
speak for he desired to recover his love, Nealda.


Orak said haughtily, 'I will return your Nealda to you, but 
only after you tell me how to enter her.'

Khelmal considered this for awhile and then agreed.  'There 
are five tasks you must perform to do this.  But only if you 
can perform these tasks can you enter her  Do you wish to 
perform these tasks?'

'I do!' Orak hastily answered for he was always impatient.

'Very well.  First, you must build a fire pit, a home for 
the goddess Ralaska.'

'Why should I do so?' Orak asked suspiciously since this 
hardly sounded necessary to enter Nealda.

'Because it creates the marriage bed,' answered Khelmal.

Orak nodded and agreed.  He set to making the fire pit, 
digging a find large hole, placing flagstones at the bottom, 
setting stones to hold back the dirt, and finally placing a 
heated coal from the underearth within the pit.  The hearth 
blazed merrily away.

'Very good,' said Khelmal.  'Now, for your second task, you 
must build a fine stone building with four stout walls and a 
roof of slate around this fire pit.'

'Why should I do so?' Orak asked, wondering of what use a 
building could be.

'Because Nealda is bashful and cannot be entered in view of 
everyone,' responded Khelmal.

Orak nodded and agreed.  He gathered fine stone and dark 
slate for the building, making the walls high and square, 
setting the slate on top, and leaving an opening to go in 
and out.  The building grew warm and cozy around the hearth 
protected from the fierce winds that followed Orak.

'Very good,' said Khelmal.  'Now, for your third task, you 
must fetch the Finenosed Hound and place it at the entrance 
to the building.'

'Why should I do so?' Orak asked for the Finenosed Hound was 
a demonic animal of fierce temperament who could always find 
his foes.

'Because you must have a fierce animal to guard the entrance 
so you and Nealda are not interrupted,' said Khelmal in 
reply.

Orak nodded and agreed.  He gathered up his snares and 
weapons and a blackened sack and sought the Finenosed Hound.  

He found the beast at the Last Blood Pool and after a long, 
terrible fight, Orak stuffed the hound into the sack and 
returned it to the building.  The building was now well 
guarded from harm and intruders.

'Very good,' said Khelmal.  'Now, for your fourth task, you 
must bring Nealda here to this building beside this fire 
pit, for only in this building can she be entered.'

Orak did not question this for it seemed to be required.  He 
descended into the darkest hell, past the Land of Dreams, to 
the bed where Nealda lay inert and sleeping.  Orak lifted 
her up and carried her to the building.  Inside he set her 
by the hearth.

'Very good,' said Khelmal.  'Now you must perform the final 
task to satisfy all the conditions.  You must pluck the 
White Rose of the Stygian Shore and return here with it.'

'Why should I do so?' Orak asked for he knew not of this 
White Rose and could think of no reason to pluck it.

'Because Nealda requires a gift of wonder if you are to 
enter her,' answered Khelmal.

So Orak nodded and agreed and he set off for the Stygian 
Shore to find the White Rose.

When Orak had gone, though, Khelmal entered the building.  
He fed the Finenosed Hound and gently stroked its muzzle so 
that it was happy and content.  Khelmal then set it to guard 
the entry.  He came to Nealda's side and lay beside the 
sleeping goddess.  He whispered in her ear, into her dreams, 
'I offer you a hearth and home.  I offer you a guardian for 
your sleep and my love you your waking hours.  As my gift to 
you I offer hope.'

Raising then his Spear of Hope, Khelmal entered the sleeping 
goddess.  She awoke then to find herself in a wonderful home 
beside a glowing hearth with a fine guardian at her door and 
with her true love beside her.  Life stirred within her and 
they laughed and loved in joy.

Orak, having failed to find the White Rose, returned to ask 
Khelmal how to find it.  But when he heard Nealda's laugh he 
knew he was tricked by his foe.  He gathered his fury and 
was ready to rage when Khelmal stepped to the door.

'You have heard the tasks required to enter Nealda and you 
have now returned Nealda to my side.  Our bargain is 
complete.  Begone from here for Nealda is my wife.  Here we 
have hearth and home and friends to shelter us from darkest 
winds.  Here we have love and hope to protect us from 
darkest despair.  It is these last, though, that are the 

keys and you will never have them.  So begone!'  Khelmal 
stood firm at the door.

Orak raged, his winds howled about him.  'Cheat and liar!' 
Orak screamed, 'I shall slay you!'

Then Khelmal released the Finenosed Hound and the demon 
beast tore at Orak.  Not to be daunted a second time, the 
hound ate the tendons of the dark god's arms.  Then Khelmal 
commanded his first sons, Mastus and Malus, Valus and Argus 
to seize the dark-visaged one.  They each seized a limb and 
bound the limbs together.  Finally, Khelmal came and took 
the blackened sack of Orak and stuffed Orak within the sack.  
And following the instructions of Nealda, Khelmal carried 
the sack to the Land of Dreams and cast it into the depths 
of that land so that Orak can now only find us in 
nightmares.



---------------------

From: 100102.3001@compuserve.com (Peter J. Whitelaw)
Subject: You asked for it, Barron
Message-ID: <940726224050_100102.3001_BHJ78-1@CompuServe.COM>
Date: 26 Jul 94 22:40:51 GMT
X-RQ-ID: 5309

Barron says:

>Looking forward to Convulsion reports...

What superlatives may I use?  Not that I want to make you green with envy (well,
OK, just a little maybe) but I enjoyed my first Convulsion very much.

I have played RQ for 12-13 years with the same group, half of which (i.e. two of
us) were at Convulsion.  It was fascinating talking to people about their
interpretations of Glorantha and how they play RQ/PDP/whatever.

I had the opportunity to meet the 'big guns' (ballistae?) of the RQ world /
Gloranthiverse - and what a fine set of people they were - very friendly,
helpful and approachable.

It was nice to hear Greg confess that he doesn't know what is going on in much
of the Lozenge (Seshnela - don't mess with me, Kralorela - who knows?).

There was a fine and diverse assortment of hats at the freeform which, as far as
I understand it, did not go well for the Rokari.  Notslor the Holy monk (Ken
Rolston, resplendant in his wraparound sheet) declared the Ecclesiarch,
Theoblanc, (de MOB) heretic the latter having previously moved to have Notslor
declared a living saint!  Our noble Ecclesiarch forgave himself his sins but I
think the trend was set by then.  An hour or so after I was out I saw de MOB in
the bar (student prices ) so you can guess the rest.

There were some fine seminars - RQ renaissance, Meet the Tales, Nick Brooke
Cultural Exchange,  Greg Staffords address.  Also, there were
RQ/PenDragon/Cthulhu tournaments.  Many other games were being played as well.
I played in a particularly fine playtest of a forthcoming Elric scenario.

Hot gossip?  

Well, don't ever expect to see HQ rules from Chaosium. 

Do expect to see more source material - a lot has been prepared over the years
much of which has never seen print - Chaosium intend to publish much of this
themselves.  

RQAiG is not going to be RQ4 (but we knew that) - it had lots of good ideas but
would have invalidated everything in print to date.  I forget what was said
about RQ4 other than that.  Typical.

The auction had quite a few goodies up for grabs including Nephilim drafts, a
Lunar book draft, an Ocean book draft, Sandy's campaign guide. 

One Trollpak went for 70 quid, whilst noone bid for the second at its reserve
price of 40.  A CoC 1st ed. went for a fiver whilst, towards the end, a CoT
couldn't find a buyer at 15 spons whilst one had earlier gone for about 25.
There was one helluva lot of junk up as well - Shadowrun stuff was going for a
couple of quid a batch.

'Meet the Daily' was worthwhile also, from a technical as well as from a social
perspective.  Funnily enough it would appear that one's height is directly
proportional to the amount one contributes to the Daily.  Devin, be warned, Alex
and Joerg are anything but vertically challenged ;-)

In conclusion, a lot of beer, gaming and socialising.  What more do you need?

Convulsion was a Good Thing.

Roll on 95!

All the best,

Peter




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From: jiml@falcon.teleride.on.ca (Jim Lai)
Subject: What is it with this recent interest in female warriors?
Message-ID: 
Date: 26 Jul 94 15:41:00 GMT
X-RQ-ID: 5310

Not that I'm complaining.  I'm all for it.  Could someone tell me who was
the woman on the cover of the second-edition rulesbook?

begin{GodLearnerMode}
	Ok, just because one can pull a Goddess Swap doesn't mean that
	the entities involved are the same.  They merely have aspects
	which resemble each other.  In which case, it's possible that
	the many local deities in the Thousand Isles (er, where is one's
	GoG when one needs it?) also incorporates woman warrior archetypes.
	After all, the sheer number does defy cataloging.

	Now, does anyone think it possible that there is some form of
	eunuch warrior practice/worship going on anywhere in Glorantha?
	(A more extreme example of sacrifice than the proposed Hearts of
	Humakt?)  Kralorea seems like a good candidate.  Fnord.
end{GodLearnerMode}

>From: ddunham@radiomail.net (David Dunham)
>Subject: Vinga
>X-RQ-ID: 5300

>In the "Adventures in Glorantha" draft, Vinga is mentioned as a subcult of
>Orlanth [...]
>I figure the subcult doesn't have priestesses, only rune ladies (and MAYBE
>acolytes). Anyone have a better name for them?

Wind Maidens?  Valkyries?  (Only a half-smiley on the latter.)  Storm
Daughters?  Zephyrs?

And why am I suddenly getting the image of an Issiaries Rune Lord named
Jakafal who trades in various skills?  Or would that be a more Lhankor
Mhy thing to do?

---------------------

From: mmorrison@VNET.IBM.COM (Michael C. Morrison 8-543-4706)
Subject: RuneQuest Daily, Fri, 22 Jul 1994, part 1
Message-ID: <1994Jul26.172650.49897@vnet.ibm.com>
Date: 27 Jul 94 00:26:50 GMT
X-RQ-ID: 5311

*** Reply to note of Fri, 22 Jul 94 09:15:25 +0200
*** by RuneQuest-Request@Glorantha.Holland.Sun.COM

Subject:  HeroQuest

Elias writes:
E> Which leads me to ask:  Does anyone have or know of any good
E> rules for heroquests?  Something that would allow a scenario
E> to be constructed and played?  I seem to keep running into
E> the problem of characters outgrowing the usual challenges,
E> and short of sending ever-increasing numbers of bad guys
E> after them, the only alternative seems to be to retire the
E> character.  Any suggestions?

   If you have access to America Online, look under games (keyword
   guild -- I think ... I'm not on AOL right now).  There is a file
   called HERO2 written by Steve Maurer that is excellent.  Greg may
   write HQ someday, but until then, Steve's write-up will do very
   well for allowing you to use HeroQuesting in a campaign.

Jon writes:
J> Well, I was at the Con and I am pleased to be able to tell you that Greg
J> said that he will write them 'next year' ;-) 

   It's my impression that Greg's said this many, many times before.  I
   *hope* he actually does it this time!


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Michael C. Morrison    IMS Information Development  Tieline  8-543-4706
Santa Teresa Lab, San Jose, California    (SWS)     Phone (408)463-4706
Bitnet ID:             MCM at VNET                  Fax   (408)463-4101
Internet ID:           MORRISON@STLVM27.VNET.IBM.COM
IBM Mail Exchange ID:  USIB47H4 at IBMMAIL  or  USIB4MCM at IBMMAIL
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