From: RuneQuest-Request@Glorantha.Holland.Sun.COM (RQ Digest Maintainer)
To: RuneQuest@Glorantha.Holland.Sun.COM (Daily automated RQ-Digest)
Reply-To: RuneQuest@Glorantha.Holland.Sun.COM (RuneQuest Daily)
Subject: RuneQuest Daily, Sun, 14 Aug 1994, part 1
Sender: Henk.Langeveld@Holland.Sun.COM
Content-Return: Prohibited
Precedence: junk
X-RQ-ID: Intro
This is the RuneQuest Daily Bulletin, a mailing list on
the subjects of Avalon Hill's RPG and Greg Stafford's
world of Glorantha. It is sent out once per day in digest
format.
More details on the RuneQuest Daily and Digest can be found
after the last message in this digest.
---------------------
From: CHEN190@csc.canterbury.ac.nz (Peter Metcalfe, CAPE Canty)
Subject: A Letter from the Blue Wizard
Message-ID: <01HFVMARGLYAECZ93I@csc.canterbury.ac.nz>
Date: 14 Aug 94 11:12:57 GMT
X-RQ-ID: 5673
---------------------
From: CHEN190@csc.canterbury.ac.nz (Peter Metcalfe, CAPE Canty)
Subject: Various ramblings from the Blue Wizard.
Message-ID: <01HFVMCLGHEAECZDGB@csc.canterbury.ac.nz>
Date: 14 Aug 94 11:57:19 GMT
X-RQ-ID: 5674
I fought We Won
===============
David Cake contradicts me in my debate with Joerg about Zzabur and whether he
fought I fought we won.
Joerg said
>>>From Trollpak, I take it that Zzabur fought in the I fought we won.
I said
>>The Godlearners said it applied to all races and not all human cultures
David Cake in quoting this and following parts writes
>[spurious explanation deleted]
Spurious? SPURIOUS?!? Cacodemon has been dispatched to feast on your
bollocks! 8-)
Seriously enough, David does raise a valid question about the I fought we won
with a valid quotation. My only defense is that the source I quote was written
after Cults of Terror and Greg may have changed his mind. Certainly as it says
in eleven troll battles when talking of the war, it gives the location as north
of Dragon Pass and says the survivors later formed the First Council. As
Zzabur was not part of the First Council (Eric Rowe can correct me on this: Is
Zzabur a particpant in "the broken council LARP"?), It follows that Zzabur was
not a particpant of the I fought we won battle. How to explain the discrepancy
inside Glorantha ?
1) The God Learners were confused (again!). They recognized a moment in the
cosmos which they called the Final Battle of Mortality (which can be located in
Fronela/Brithos - High Kings Elf's stronghold is Winterwood) and confused
theyalan tales of the I fought we won with this. As the God Learners were the
most learned (and leats wise) this raises the question of how well the EWF and
Errinoru's Empire understood the Cosmos! Scary!
2) Zzabur was bragging as usual.
The OOO debate revisits old ground
==================================
Eric Rowe writes
>I asked him (Greg) today (for the broken Council LARP) and Greg said the OOO
>was not an office
Oh, God Forbid! Having radically revised my explanation about the OOO, I now
find it was based on a false premise. Due to lethargy induced by heavy
false-gregging, I refuse to write any further on this topic for a while.
Gark the Calm
=============
Rich asks about Gark the Calm Cult Writeup. I know there was an official
written up for a french magazine called Broos which is now out of print.
I do not have a copy and would also add my voice for a copy. An added
inducement is that I promise to debate with you a gloranthan topic of your
choice in the digest (subject to limitation of course: I will not debate
Joerg's many suns hypothesis (to please henk) nor will I revisit the OOO
debate).
I suspect that Ompalam and Jraktal may never be written up as a difficulty with
these cults is trying to find some mechanism to prevent Fonritian PC's from
joining what is a mainstream cult. Any ideas, Sandy?
The Dying Earth
===============
Jonas writes of Ernalda
>I still don't know _how_ she died,
Ernalda died during the Gods War, in protest at flamal's death at the hands of
Zorak Zoran. Many Earth Cults also followed her. This was called the Death
Sleep. I find the lack of mention of it in Orlanthi mythology of KoS quite
surprising.
Ressurecting Gods killed in myth
================================
I think it is possible. After all what are the mostali trying to do? Given
that he lived in the spike (which is no longer existant) and was killed in the
Gods War, the mostali have no doubts about the eventual success of their
project (although the chaos tainted objection of Bryan J. Maloney suggests we
should start a dwarf pogrom). Given the mundane body of Genert is still
largely intact, I think it could be done.
Improbable uses for Power Spirits
=================================
David baur gives an eloquent refutation of Joerg's munchkinism. However in
dismissing my limited solution, his arguement does not conform with the RQIII
errata (*please note* I'm not dictating what rules he or anybody should use in
a campaign). The obstacle inherent in my suggestion was that the freebie
enchanter would have to give up a point of INT, something which most people
would describe as an unfair exchange no matter how large the POW spirit is.
That's all from me
--Peter Metcalfe
---------------------
From: jewahr@hts.dude.pp.se (Jesper Wahrner)
Subject: Butterflies and Chalana Arroy
Message-ID: <776741462.AA01063@hts.dude.pp.se>
Date: 8 Aug 94 09:06:00 GMT
X-RQ-ID: 5675
John Strauss:
> I didn't like the idea of the butterfly being the favored
>animal for Chalanna Arroy allied spirits. Maybe I just had a hangup
>about Chalanna Arroy taking her animal from the Darkness phylum.
Sandy Petersen:
> I wouldn't get too hung up about butterflies being a
> "Darkness" creature. Just because many insects are, does not mean all
> are. In fact, I can't think of a organism that is LESS "darkness"
> oriented in behavior and appearance than butterflies.
I agree strongly with this. In fact I had Yelm make the butterflies
as a gift/reward to CA in my campaign. While most of them have dege-
nerated into "ordinary" butterflies since godtime, the original is
still around, although rarely encountered since directly after hatching
they fly directly up to heaven where they live for a period of 101
years. After this time they fly back to the middle world where they swarm
and lay their eggs, and thereafter die since their purpose in creation
is now fullfilled. They always swarm at Yelms high holy day and take off
during sacred time.
They are generally called "Sun-dancers" or "Sun-butterflies" (OK so it
sounds better in Swedish. Maybe someone can supply a better english
name since I lack the necessary % in R/W English.) and have a wingspan
of between 20-30 cm. Their wings can have all the colours of the rainbow,
and have magical properties that allows a good alchemist to make powerful
healingpotions from them (simulating the various "Restore Health" spells).
Chalana Arroy cultists fortunate enough to know where they swarm usually
take care of their wings when they die. Their magic is much stronger when
they hatch and unscrupolous alchemists often try to catch them then. This
is considered just short of sacrilegious by both CA and Fire/Sky
cultists.
CA cultists likes to have them as allies both due to their longevity,
their beuty and the fact that their power is as high as 4d6. To get one
they must have healed a creature associated with the sky, ritually seek
out a Yelmbush (the name of the bush where they lay their eggs) during
the sacred time ceremonies and hope that they will hatch this year. At
this point the request for an ally proceeds as usual. An awakened
butterfly will of course stay with its priestess rather than taking off
to heaven.
These butterflies gets rarer for every year that passes, not only
because of them being caught at hatching but also because the Yelmbush
have magical properties of its own. The bush have large Yellow
flowers that only are there during Yelms HH-day, and these flowers
are what attracts the butterflies. Unfortunately if the flowers are
picked during this time longevity potions can be made from them. All
flowers from one bush can be used to make a potion that prevents aging
for a full year. This tend to make an already rare bush even more rarer.
---------------------
From: jewahr@hts.dude.pp.se (Jesper Wahrner)
Subject: Butterflies and Chalana Arroy
Message-ID: <776741464.AA01065@hts.dude.pp.se>
Date: 11 Aug 94 12:19:00 GMT
X-RQ-ID: 5676
I wrote this some days ago but it looks like it has disappeared on
the way to the digest, so here is a go at reposting it.
John Strauss:
> I didn't like the idea of the butterfly being the favored
>animal for Chalanna Arroy allied spirits. Maybe I just had a hangup
>about Chalanna Arroy taking her animal from the Darkness phylum.
Sandy Petersen:
> I wouldn't get too hung up about butterflies being a
> "Darkness" creature. Just because many insects are, does not mean all
> are. In fact, I can't think of a organism that is LESS "darkness"
> oriented in behavior and appearance than butterflies.
I agree strongly with this. In fact I had Yelm make the butterflies
as a gift/reward to CA in my campaign. While most of them have dege-
nerated into "ordinary" butterflies since godtime, the original is
still around, although rarely encountered since directly after hatching
they fly directly up to heaven where they live for a period of 101
years. After this time they fly back to the middle world where they swarm
and lay their eggs, and thereafter die since their purpose in creation
is now fullfilled. They always swarm at Yelms high holy day and take off
during sacred time.
They are generally called "Sun-dancers" or "Sun-butterflies" (OK so it
sounds better in Swedish. Maybe someone can supply a better english
name since I lack the necessary % in R/W English.) and have a wingspan
of between 20-30 cm. Their wings can have all the colours of the rainbow,
and have magical properties that allows a good alchemist to make powerful
healingpotions from them (simulating the various "Restore Health" spells).
Chalana Arroy cultists fortunate enough to know where they swarm usually
take care of their wings when they die. Their magic is much stronger when
they hatch and unscrupolous alchemists often try to catch them then. This
is considered just short of sacrilegious by both CA and Fire/Sky
cultists.
CA cultists likes to have them as allies both due to their longevity,
their beuty and the fact that their power is as high as 4d6. To get one
they must have healed a creature associated with the sky, ritually seek
out a Yelmbush (the name of the bush where they lay their eggs) during
the sacred time ceremonies and hope that they will hatch this year. At
this point the request for an ally proceeds as usual. An awakened
butterfly will of course stay with its priestess rather than taking off
to heaven.
These butterflies gets rarer for every year that passes, not only
because of them being caught at hatching but also because the Yelmbush
have magical properties of its own. The bush have large Yellow
flowers that only are there during Yelms HH-day, and these flowers
are what attracts the butterflies. Unfortunately if the flowers are
picked during this time longevity potions can be made from them. All
flowers from one bush can be used to make a potion that prevents aging
for a full year. This tend to make an already rare bush even more rarer.
---------------------
From: ANDOVER@delphi.com
Subject: Antidisestablishmentarianism
Message-ID: <01HFV2S4KU1E8ZF6AR@delphi.com>
Date: 13 Aug 94 09:58:22 GMT
X-RQ-ID: 5678
Herewith I make my bid for the title of obnoxious pedant! Bryan's piece
is wrong in one important respect. In 19th century Great Britain, the
question was not the disestablishment of the English Church, but of
the IRISH church! The Liberals were in favor of ending the establishment
of the (Episcopal) Church in Ireland; the Tories against. In the early
20th century the same split occurred again over the question of dis-
establishing the Welsh Church. So at the present time, the position
in Great Britain is as follows: the Episcopal Church is established
in England, the Presbyterians in Scotland, and there is no established
church in Wales and Northern Ireland.
---------------------
From: esoteric@teleport.com (Brad Furst)
Subject: Re: Sanctify
Message-ID:
Date: 13 Aug 94 05:13:45 GMT
X-RQ-ID: 5679
> From: davidc@cs.uwa.edu.au (David Cake)
> Subject: Sanctify
> It was my impression that the spell 'Sanctify' was originally
> intended to allow people to worship when far from the temple, presumably to
> regain spells or at least cast rituals spells when on campaign.
> Dave Cake
I got a written answer to this question years ago from Chaosium. Yes,
spells can be regained if the Sanctify lasts long enough.
Sanctify will need much Extension,
but it will do the trick
Brad
esoteric@teleport.com
---------------------
From: esoteric@teleport.com (Brad Furst)
Subject: Holy Days and Divine Spells, etc
Message-ID:
Date: 13 Aug 94 05:26:13 GMT
X-RQ-ID: 5680
> From: MILLERL@wilma.wharton.upenn.edu (Loren J. Miller)
> A: Sanctify Divine Spell/Ritual does it for me. IMO a casting of this
> along with a successful Ceremony roll should allow all worshipping
> priests to regain all their RuneMagic.
Remember, Sanctify is already a ritual ceremony spell, and so requires
successful Ceremony skill roll in addition to the 100% divine spell
roll. Remember, also, that Sanctify by itself is ended too quickly to
substitute for a temple.
Brad
esoteric@teleport.com
---------------------
From: mmorrison@VNET.IBM.COM (Michael C. Morrison 8-543-4706)
Subject: "To Greg"
Message-ID: <1994Aug13.123857.84997@vnet.ibm.com>
Date: 13 Aug 94 19:38:57 GMT
X-RQ-ID: 5681
I've seen "Greg" used as a verb lately, and thought I'd try to define it.
GREG (v): 1. To prove one's own theories or disprove competing theories
by citing (usually) unpublished writings of Greg Stafford.
2. To use any unpublished source to prove one's own theories
or disprove competing theories. 3. To use nonexistent sources
or sources one cannot produce as evidence to prove one's own
theories or disprove competing theories.
I know #3 seems harsh, but no one, not even Greg himself, can answer
*all* questions.
Comments?
-----------------------------------------------------------------------
Michael C. Morrison IMS Information Development Tieline 8-543-4706
Santa Teresa Lab, San Jose, California (SWS) Phone (408)463-4706
Bitnet ID: MCM at VNET Fax (408)463-4101
Internet ID: MMORRISON@VNET.IBM.COM or USIB47H4@IBMMAIL.COM
IBM Mail Exchange ID: USIB47H4 at IBMMAIL or USIB4MCM at IBMMAIL
X.400 Address: G=mcmgm; S=morrison; P=ibmmail; A=ibmx400; C=us
-----------------------------------------------------------------------
---------------------
From: joe@sartar.toppoint.de (Joerg Baumgartner)
Subject: Plowing effectivity
Message-ID:
Date: 13 Aug 94 23:49:51 GMT
X-RQ-ID: 5682
N. Smith in X-RQ-ID: 5619
> Footnote:- 1 acre = 4840 square yards:-
> "the amount of land which a man with two oxen could plow in a day. 40
> rods long and 4 rods wide where the rod, a pole used to drive the oxen, was
> 5.5 yards long".
> The AA Book of the Countyside (that famous reference work!)
> (However, KoS states that an Orlanthi Carl must have an ox team of 8
> oxen, which will plow 80 acres in two seasons. Perhaps the oxen get a lot
> of holidays?)
The head count of the ox team puzzled me. KoS p.244 states that a Carl must
own "a whole ox-team and a plow". Later it states a half-team consists of
4 oxen.
Orlanthi plowing technique seems highly unlikely to employ more than four
oxen per plow at a time - even with several yokes I doubt that would be
effective. Most plowing in real earth has been done with two draught
animals (I've seen one documentary where a camel and a donkey were teamed
up). Four or more draught beasts would imply use of a wheel plow, unlikely
for a "bronze age world", especially if the Barntar plow is less efficient
than the Lod(ril) plow for heavy soil.
In fact, the Barntar plow might well be so inefficient that 80 acres are
all the Orlanthi Carl manages to plow. A season of 56 days might see little
more than 40 days of field work, with 6 days (10%) of temple work and 8 days
of worship.
How exactly does a Barntar plow look like? Is it an all wooden hook plow,
or does it have a metal blade? Will iron plows be usable on Glorantha, or
will their Death (and anti-magic) power be too strong for new life to
spring forth?
And I still think that a spell Straightfurrow would be a lot more useful
than Plowsharp or True Plow.
Bless Plow ceremonies with a ceremonial wagon being drawn across the
fields - this was the iron age spring blessing of the goddess Nerthus,
here on the cimbrian peninsula. Not Celtic, but an earth goddess
nevertheless. (Boo, another Earth parallel )
--
-- Joerg Baumgartner joe@sartar.toppoint.de
---------------------
From: joe@sartar.toppoint.de (Joerg Baumgartner)
Subject: Reindeer
Message-ID:
Date: 14 Aug 94 00:59:11 GMT
X-RQ-ID: 5683
Mike Dickison in X-RQ-ID: 5626
> The Uncolings are likewise easily placed, though whether
> their totem is the domesticated Lapp reindeer or the wilder caribou is up
> for debate.
Hardly. The sorry examples of the Lapp reindeer shown to the tourists along
the E6 (in Norway) are a quite modern phenomenon. Although already Ottar,
a trader from Tromsoe (oe = /o), reported to King Alfred the Great of
Wessex that he had 600 tame specimen of these, most lapps of this time
(right until the time of reformation) only had a small part of the
reindeer herds domesticated (for transport, and as decoy animals), and
the inland tribes followed the herds of the wild reindeer to hunt them.
The more sedentary coastal lapps waited for the herds to come to their
stationary traps in the passes.
> The problem is with the Pralori. I assumed that US conventions held, and
> their totem was the American elk, a giant race of the European red deer
> (stats in the Creatures Book, ditto for Fallow Deer). But Martin Crim's
> excellent writeup of the Hykim cult states that the Pralor totem "resembles
> the Old World elk, not the New World wapiti", ie; the Pralori elk is a
> moose.
I assumed that the Fronelan "Pralori" were moose Hsunchen in my write-up
of Ygg's Isles. In Pralorela the moose could live in the New Fen area.
East Prussia (today Poland) had the moose antler as its coat of arms,
which means that this beast lives quite well in temperate climate. With
bogs and forest present, the conditions aren't too bad for the occasional
moose in west Maniria.
--
-- Joerg Baumgartner joe@sartar.toppoint.de
---------------------
From: joe@sartar.toppoint.de (Joerg Baumgartner)
Subject: Uleria and the boggles
Message-ID:
Date: 14 Aug 94 00:59:28 GMT
X-RQ-ID: 5684
The story about Uleria and the Boggles stands in Prosopaedia, under
Ratslaff and Tylenea.
I liked the story - it sounded like the likely origin of Eurmal, btw.
--
-- Joerg Baumgartner joe@sartar.toppoint.de
---------------------
From: joe@sartar.toppoint.de (Joerg Baumgartner)
Subject: GRoY 95% correct
Message-ID:
Date: 14 Aug 94 00:59:44 GMT
X-RQ-ID: 5685
Peter Metcalfe in X-RQ-ID: 5636
I wrote
>>Antirius is mentioned in the ten tests of Murzaharm.
Peter then explains the changes from the original edition of GRoY to
the current one.
> For the Record the nine testors of Murzaharm are:
> 7. The Raibanth Bridge by the Pillar God.
In my version, this was Antirius.
(So, was Antirius the Pillar God before Yelm's death? )
> Those this mean, Joe, that your grounds for opposing the identification of
> Antirius as Yelmalio are no longer existant?
No. The myths don't really fit - most of all Antirius dies during the
Darkness, and never had close connections to Earth. Antirius is a ruling
god.
On the other hand, the sky dome is identified with both deities, and both
fight at the Hill of Gold. However, both Kargzant and Shargash appear there
as well. The identification is possible, but not enough to make them one
and the same deity. IMO, of course.
--
-- Joerg Baumgartner joe@sartar.toppoint.de