Bell Digest v940817p1

From: RuneQuest-Request@Glorantha.Holland.Sun.COM (RQ Digest Maintainer)
To: RuneQuest@Glorantha.Holland.Sun.COM (Daily automated RQ-Digest)
Reply-To: RuneQuest@Glorantha.Holland.Sun.COM (RuneQuest Daily)
Subject: RuneQuest Daily, Wed, 17 Aug 1994, part 1
Sender: Henk.Langeveld@Holland.Sun.COM
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X-RQ-ID: Intro

This is the RuneQuest Daily Bulletin, a mailing list on
the subjects of Avalon Hill's RPG and Greg Stafford's 
world of Glorantha.  It is sent out once per day in digest
format.

More details on the RuneQuest Daily and Digest can be found
after the last message in this digest.


---------------------

From: CHEN190@csc.canterbury.ac.nz (Peter Metcalfe, CAPE Canty)
Subject: Blue Wizard saves Glorantha!
Message-ID: <01HFZNW2L9PUECZRYB@csc.canterbury.ac.nz>
Date: 17 Aug 94 09:04:44 GMT
X-RQ-ID: 5720

Bob Luckin:
===========

>Perhaps we should start calling you "Peter Blue Wiz" in order to avert any
>confusion between you and "Peter White Law".

Whatever you please.  I do have a middle name but I doubt it will be of any
help, it's Harald.  A better idea would be to use my initials PHM pronounced
'vim' as in latin for power.  What do the rest of you think?

Community spells:
=================

Under my proposal, Bob's objection (in that the priests having to punish some 
members would have to seek sanction from the rest of the community) would not
be a problem.  As the communal spells comes under the temple authority, the
ranking priest really chooses.  If the priesthood abuses the position then some
villagers might find a gentler god to worship.

Jonas Schiott
=============

So I'm Eric now, am I?  Having seen this much confusion in the Daily, I no
longer wonder why the God Learners were confused...

I mention my theory about rune doublings and runes coupled to the infinity
rune.  

>It seems to me as if you're onto something.  The large group of dieties you
>mention first (with the doubled runes) are _not_ the original sources of those
>runes.  Uleria, on the other hand _is_. Not sure about IG.

It seems that I forgot to mention two gods which destroy your hypothesis.  The
first is Daka Fal whoese runes are Man, Spirit and Man, and the Horned Man
whose runes are Spirit, Magic and Spirit.  Both of these people as far as I can
tell were the first to have their runes.  Furthermore in Troll Gods, Himile is
doubled Cold rune whereas he was the first to hold those runes.  And surely for
Moon rune, Annilla should be its first holder?

Speaking of Annilla: her name seems to be derived from the latin 'anile' which
is like senile but it refers specifically to old women.

Gerald aka gbosch@vaxa.weeg.uiowa.edu
=====================================

Yes, yes, yes, please send me your notes on Glorantha trade! It slices! It
dices! And its only $29.95! whoops sorry, got carried away there.  Please could
I have a copy?

Blue Wizard c/o Chen190@csc.canterbury.ac.nz

---------------------

From: klaus@diku.dk
Subject: matrixes and spell renewal
Message-ID: <199408160934.AA00968@rimfaxe.diku.dk>
Date: 16 Aug 94 13:34:08 GMT
X-RQ-ID: 5722

T.J.Minas@soton.ac.uk (T.J.Minas) writes:

>   Secondly, if you are a RuneLord/Priest out in the wilds and yur Holy day
>rolls round, then just cast Sanctify (as commented on earlier, Extended as
>necessary)

How long does a service take? Anyway, for spell renewal, "as necessary"
is not very likely. A lone priest wishing to regain spells in a far away
land needs 11 points of Extend. Who is going have that many?

10 points of Extend gives you 10 days 16 hours, either just enough or
almost enough to regain the Sanctify and Extends. No time for regaining
other spells. If two priests are travelling together, one could regain
other spells while the other regained his 10 extends. Mindlink allows
several priests to supply the Extends, and to pray for their renewal
in parallel. This reduces the number required, but not by much. (It
of course drastically reduces the number that any one priest must
know.)

Even if you want to reagain only one point of spell as a one-shot,
you need six or seven points of Extend, depending on how you define
"day".

>   Rune matrices for stuff like Bless Crops: Am not really convinced. Doesn't
>really seem like the way that people would do it. Sure, from an external
>viewpoint it may seem like a great move to sacrifice for Bless criops twice and
>make 2 matrices, rather than 4 pts. But I bet the priest doesn't look at it
>like that when he sacrifices for the spell, he'll want 4 pts worth because it's
>a) more pious (I would say) 

Why would you say that? There is no way to predict what someone would
consider pious, of course, but I would think that gaining for your
temple and community a permanent advantage was more pious that giving
yourself personal power, especially since that power is going to
be of less use (fewer castings) even while you are alive, even if you
actually work full time on regaining spells.

>and b) more immediately useful.

Huh? If you get 4 spells, you can cast them, then regain 1 per day.
With matrixes, less skilled (less scarce) labour can recharge both in
a day. That is, in d days you get 4 + d castings by one method, 2 + 2d
by the other. After 2 days, you get 6 castings either way. OK, it takes
time to enchant the matrixes, but the break even point is still less
than one week, and from then on the matrixes are at least twice as useful.

There are some other points to take into account. The enchant spell costs a
point of POW. This only means that if you don't intend to enchant _any_
matrixes, you can get one more Bless Crops spell, moving the break even
point one day into the future. In 5% of your enchant attempts, you loose
a point of POW for no gain. No more than 5%, priests have high ceremony
skill and access to Invigorate spells. This is by far offset by the
matrix being rechargeable by anyone. The priest can do other other things
(like regaining Spellteaching) while initiates take turns recharging.

And in addition to all these immediate adtvantages, matrixes are permanent.

But my point was that this is the only way to do it. Due to the death of
Genert, Bless Crops spells are (is?) a must for farming in Genertela.
You need an unrealistic number of acolytes to get the fields blessed
by personal spells.

The holy wagon comes from the prehistory of my own country. The "sun wagon"
is from the bronze age. As Joerg has already pointed out, this tradition
continued into roman times.

Klaus O K

---------------------

From: JARDINE@RMCS.CRANFIELD.AC.UK
Subject: Divine Magic
Message-ID: <9408160941.AA10408@Sun.COM>
Date: 16 Aug 94 09:43:00 GMT
X-RQ-ID: 5723


Hi All
	Maybe I have an idea that can go some way to bringing together the 
Rune Power and the Reusable divine magic for initiates camps.   

	I play reusable divine magic for initiates (regain 1 point on High Holy day if they attend a ceremony).  Thus a very limited version.  I also play the 
standard idea that characters sacrifice for a specific spell (NOT rune power).  
	However, I have decided to introduce the following system as well.  
Anyone initiated into the worship of a god may perform a limited DI for 
the effects of one of the god's divine magic spells.  This form of DI is 
much more likely to work as it is virtualy indistinguishable from the 
normal casting of divine magic so the god does it on a routine basis.  

The chance of the effect is POW * 3 for initiates, *4 for acolytes and *5 for 
rune levels.  The cost is the normal cost in POW for the spell.  However, 
the spell is cast on a one-use basis (non-reusable spells cost double!).  

	SUMMARY

	Now everyone has access to reusable rune magic.  BUT, now gods don't 
abandon their worshippers to terrible fates just because they were doing the 
right thing taking Bless Crops instead of Great Parry.  The above system 
does not alter game balance much, but does allow for better role playing of 
non-warlike cultists.  

	Lewis

---------------------

From: henkl@aft-ms (Henk Langeveld - Sun Nederland)
Subject: Re: principle of Maximum Game... (fwd from Greg Stafford)
Message-ID: <9408161042.AA01091@yelm.Holland.Sun.COM>
Date: 16 Aug 94 14:42:33 GMT
X-RQ-ID: 5724


From: Greg Stafford:
> Date: Mon, 15 Aug 94 16:51:37 EDT
> Subject: Re: principle of Maximum Game...
> 
> here here!
> Points for Loren!
> 
> - g
> 
> 


---------------------

From: jonas.schiott@vinga.hum.gu.se (Jonas Schiott)
Subject: Confusing Subjects.
Message-ID: <9408161148.AA12035@vinga.hum.gu.se>
Date: 16 Aug 94 13:55:22 GMT
X-RQ-ID: 5725

My subject line for yesterday's posting got shortened by some niggardly
computer, which might have confused some readers. It should end "(including
The Majestic Moose)." I'll keep 'em shorter in the future...

(      Jonas Schiott                                   )
(      Institutionen for Ide- och lardomshistoria      )
(      Goteborgs Universitet                           )


---------------------

From: Lynne.Clayton@bhein.rel.co.uk (Clayton, Lynne)
Subject: Gloranthan Economics
Message-ID: <9407167770.AA777066689@reedel1.bhein.rel.co.uk>
Date: 16 Aug 94 10:51:29 GMT
X-RQ-ID: 5726



Re: Gloranthan Economics


Hi Gerald

Please add me to your mailing list for Gloranthan trading notes - they sound 
interesting.

We once took a caravan across half of Genertela - had great fun and made pots of
money... but those exchange rates are lethal!

Thanks

Lynne



---------------------

From: sandyp@idcube.idsoftware.com (Sandy Petersen)
Subject: Re: RuneQuest Daily, Tue, 16 Aug 1994
Message-ID: <9408161839.AA18110@idcube.idsoftware.com>
Date: 16 Aug 94 06:40:00 GMT
X-RQ-ID: 5727

Robert MacArthur
>Since the turns in DP are 1 day long, how do the casters of these  
>spells get them back to use the next day?
	I've always assumed that the priests must pace themselves,   
using their magic only gradually. Perhaps Dragon Pass should have a  
"realism" rule letting ALL magicians have a special magic effect, if  
their spirit is used up afterwards. 


Bob Luckin:
>The examples quoted (Osentalka and the Red Goddess) are associated  
>with Chaos by their enemies, but not by their friends
	This is not completely true. The Red Goddess is clearly  
associated with Chaos even by her friends. It's just not the be-all  
and end-all of her faith. And Osentalka/Nysalor/Gbaji may or may not  
be chaotic, but even the pro-Nysalor Lunar Empire doesn't try to  
debate his nature -- they just explain that it's irrelevant. The  
Lunar Chaos argument is more than a tis/tain't discussion. 


Source Runes" once more. Deities who are an Origin, and have their  
Rune doubled, are NOT the original source of that Rune. Deities who  
are an Origin, and have their Rune along with an infinity Rune ARE  
the original source of that Rune.

Martin Crim:
>The reason I made the Elk people Mooses, if I can recall
>back that far, was to make them as different as possible from the
>Deer people.
	Elk behave as different from Deer as Moose do. The other  
disadvantages of having a Moose tribe, such as making the players  
crack up, I feel to outweigh the advantages. 


Tim Minas
>Someone asked at Convulsion what would happen if you killed all the  
>Hyenas in the wastes, would Genert come back? Greg said, yes,  
>probably.
	On the other hand, don't forget WHY Genert had Hyena eat him.  
I see no reason to suppose that his original reasoning isn't still  
valid, in which case the resurrection of Genert could lead to  
Genert's death and the takeover of a chaotic land-god.

Tim Minas
> If all the waters of the world run towards Magasta's pool, where  
>does the water that ends up in the White Sea go to?
	It flows _under_ the glacier towards the West. 


Roderick Robertson
>As Sandy pointed out (but then someone contradicted) the mass 

>charges oftentime *did* work in 20th century battles.
	The problem with mass charges is that superficially, an  
unskilled bonehead maneuver like the assaults at the Somme or  
Gravelotte-St. Privat bears some resemblance to a carefully  
thought-out successful maneuver like the assaults in the First  
Chinese Winter Offensive in Korea. And to confuse the issue, bonehead  
generals often see no difference, so keep blundering into the former  
while thinking they're crafting the latter. 

	To sum up, the heavy Russian losses in the early years of  
WWII were not the result of their human wave tactics, but of being  
surrounded by narrow German panzer probes. The Chinese mass assaults  
used in Korea did not signify an attempt to use manpower to overwhelm  
firepower, because the Chinese did NOT outnumber the UN Troops in  
Korea at the time (and they suffered lighter casualties during their  
offensive than the UN, though they were on the attack). 

	Enough! Anyone wanting to hear more about the origin and  
expression of human wave tactics in the 20th century can email me in  
private. 


I said:
>> But in any case, if the wizard leads services for the  

>> Invisible God, I'd give him a POW gain roll every Sacred Time.
Alex wonders:
>Hrm.  Why?
	Here am my reasons. Firstly, it seems Bad to force wizards to  
have to adventure or summon up evil spirits in order to get POW gain  
rolls. Admittedly, POW gain is not as important to wizards as it is  
to priests and shamans. Secondly, whatever it is that gives Priests a  
POW gain roll should work via the Invisible God as well. Heck,  
probably organized worship of ANYTHING that really exists on another  
plane of existence will get you a POW gain roll as your soul strives  
to breach the invisible veil between the realms. 


---------------------

From: gadbois@cs.utexas.edu (David Gadbois)
Subject: T-Shirts Tales
Message-ID: <19940816195627.7.GADBOIS@CLIO.MCC.COM>
Date: 16 Aug 94 09:56:00 GMT
X-RQ-ID: 5728

Martin (a.k.a. Argrath) asks how folks on the west side of the pond can
get Dan Barker's nifty keen Jar-Eel t-shirts.  The t-shirt is a take-off
on the cover of an Elektra (sp?) comic.  It features Jar-Eel and
Beat-Pot and a couple of scimitar-bearing chreubs.  They will be
available from me for US$20.00 each.  This is a pre-order deal:  I will
only get as many shirts as I have orders for.  Deadline for orders is
September 15. Note that if you can wait until RQ-Con 2, David Hall will
be bring a bunch with him and, since there won't be two postage fees to
deal with, selling them for US$15.00 each.


Also:  I am still waiting for the color separations for the cover of
Tales #12.  After that, it will have to be printed and mailed (first
class this time!), so North American subscribers will have to wait at
least a couple of weeks to get their copies, and it will take a few days
more for the South Pacific copies to wend their way down to the
antipodes.  The Tales mailing will also include RQ-Con info.

--David Gadbois

---------------------

From: mmorrison@VNET.IBM.COM (Michael C. Morrison 8-543-4706)
Subject: RuneQuest Daily, Tue, 16 Aug 1994, part 2
Message-ID: <1994Aug16.144311.90487@vnet.ibm.com>
Date: 16 Aug 94 21:43:11 GMT
X-RQ-ID: 5730

*** Reply to note of Tue, 16 Aug 94 09:16:18 +0200
*** by RuneQuest-Request@Glorantha.Holland.Sun.COM

Subject:  To Greg ...

Alex asks for a definition of greg (the noun form).  How's this?:

greg (n) - 1. a theory, system or map that is correct according to
           published and unpublished writings of Greg Stafford.
           2a. a unit of measure that describes the correctness of
           a theory, system or map, according to published and
           unpublished writings of Greg Stafford.
           2b. a unit of measure that describes how much has been
           written by Greg Stafford about a particular topic; can be
           measured in words, pages, or multiples of either.

Thanks to Henk for inspiring 2b.

As a bonus, consider this definition:

greg (adj) - correct, according to published and unpublished writings
             of Greg Stafford.

For completeness, perhaps:

greg (adv) - in a correct manner, according to published and unpublished
             writings of Greg Stafford.


Here's a reprise (with a correction, for Alex) of the verb form:

greg (v) - 1a. To prove one's own theories or disprove competing theories
           by citing (usually) unpublished writings of Greg Stafford.
           1b. To refute a theory because it does not fit with currently
           held views (this form only applies to Greg Stafford).
           2. To use any unpublished source to prove one's own theories
           or disprove competing theories.  3. To use nonexistent sources
           or sources one cannot produce as evidence to prove one's own
           theories or disprove competing theories.


Further comments?
-----------------

Gerald asks who wants a copy of his Gloranthan trade notes.  I do ...
Thx ... :-)

-----------------------------------------------------------------------
Michael C. Morrison    IMS Information Development  Tieline  8-543-4706
Santa Teresa Lab, San Jose, California    (SWS)     Phone (408)463-4706
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---------------------

From: Argrath@aol.com
Subject: Alex/Dave/Nick Runepower
Message-ID: <9408162109.tn38639@aol.com>
Date: 17 Aug 94 01:09:24 GMT
X-RQ-ID: 5731

Re: Alex's Dave-and-Nick-borrowed Rune Power system
     I kind of like it.  Only minor quibbles with spell
regaining.  Very much liked the DI rules, though perhaps only
priests get to count all their power pool toward the chance. 
Here are some variations I have been thinking about, but hadn't
gotten written up yet:

A) RuneQuest: initiates and priests gain affinity for the runes
of their cult, measured either through a % or in stepwise
increases.  A cultist can only cast spells available at his or
her level in that rune; levels above the minimum add to effect.  

Ex: Faltikus is 90% in Storm.  Cloud Call has a minimum of 25%,
so he can cast it and he gets a bonus for the 65% he is over the
minimum.  Factor to be worked out later.

B) Sacrifice POW to the rune of your choice, and cast any of the
spells under it with that PW; no requirement that you also sack
POW for the spell in the first place.  Still have to walk the
path, which takes time, permission, and a willingness to face
danger.

--Martin



---------------------

From: strauss@hopper.itc.virginia.edu (John Strauss)
Subject: vegetarian
Message-ID: <199408170536.BAA27383@Hopper.itc.Virginia.EDU>
Date: 16 Aug 94 21:36:14 GMT
X-RQ-ID: 5732

All this talk about Chalanna Arroy and vegetarianism has got me
to thinking: You know, I really ought to show my players a
vegetarian dark troll.....