Bell Digest v940824p1

From: RuneQuest-Request@Glorantha.Holland.Sun.COM (RQ Digest Maintainer)
To: RuneQuest@Glorantha.Holland.Sun.COM (Daily automated RQ-Digest)
Reply-To: RuneQuest@Glorantha.Holland.Sun.COM (RuneQuest Daily)
Subject: RuneQuest Daily, Wed, 24 Aug 1994, part 1
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X-RQ-ID: Intro

This is the RuneQuest Daily Bulletin, a mailing list on
the subjects of Avalon Hill's RPG and Greg Stafford's 
world of Glorantha.  It is sent out once per day in digest
format.

More details on the RuneQuest Daily and Digest can be found
after the last message in this digest.


---------------------

From: klaus@diku.dk
Subject: misc
Message-ID: <199408230721.AA13265@rimfaxe.diku.dk>
Date: 23 Aug 94 11:21:36 GMT
X-RQ-ID: 5822

Sultans/Satraps
"""""""""""""""

Isn't that just the translator who has changed his mind about what
the best word is? Somewhat like Mao Tse Tung/Mao Zedong. Who knows
what they are actually called in New Pelorian.

Hyenas
""""""

Someone said that not all hyenas contain parts of Genert. Maybe only
the male ones do? That should make life a lot easier for the Garzeen
worshippers :-).

(For those not on the know: the usual way to sex a spotted hyena is
to palpate the scrotum. Males of course have testicles, females have
lumps of fatty tissue in their false scrotums. These are much softer
than real testicles.)

Teleport
""""""""

ARRRRG! How could I forget Diminish SIZ?

INT is 2d6 + 6. This means 1/12 of the population, and quite possibly
a majority of the wizards, have INT 17+. The Loskalm Transportation
Service needs no matrices.

Moon in Pavis
"""""""""""""

According to Strangers the moon is visible from Pavis. This is in the
wonderful scene where the moonboat arrives.

Klaus O K

---------------------

From: MOBTOTRM@vaxc.cc.monash.edu.au
Subject: Get the Picture
Message-ID: <01HG9BWRTLBM8ZEV0G@vaxc.cc.monash.edu.au>
Date: 24 Aug 94 04:49:37 GMT
X-RQ-ID: 5823

G'day all,

___________________
A Slight Correction

I wrote:
>*Rupert Murdoch, ex-Australian media magnate and now US citizen, owner
>of such quality papers as "The Sun" (UK) and "The Picture" (Aus), famous
>for its annual $10,000 "Match the Nude Models' Faces to Their Bums"
>competition.
Actually, "Picture" is owned by another Australian media baron, Kerry
"the Goanna" Packer, the man who brought us World Series Cricket (so he's
not all bad).

---------------------

From: JARDINE@RMCS.CRANFIELD.AC.UK
Subject: Since Convulsion and Divine Magic
Message-ID: <9408230933.AA22921@Sun.COM>
Date: 23 Aug 94 09:35:00 GMT
X-RQ-ID: 5824


Simon Hibbs - I've got bad news for you!
	Convulsion was only a month ago so I don't know where you've been 
since then if you played in a game several months ago shortly after Convulsion! I suggest that it might be time to leave the hollow hills/ Hero plane!  

Alex - Initiates do no have anything to do with regaining divine magic!?!?
	While at a theoretical level I have some sympathy with the idea of 
a heirarchical system like the PD battle system where the guys at the top 
have the most effect on the outcome.  In practice I think the is unnecessarily 
complex for a PRACTICAL system for regaining Divine Magic.  Remember the 
initiates are important if 7*7*2 do not turn up then no-one will get their 
spells back.  
	If you want a simple mechanic why don't you add any extra MPs the 
congregation expend (over the usual 1) to the Priest's chances of success.  
One a success initiates get 1 point of divine magic back, on a special 2 
points and on a critical 3 points.  On a fumble everyone participating 
loses one point permanently!  This would make attending a large/great 
temple even more attractive as not only would you get a wider choice of 
spells you would also have a greater chance of getting more back.  Just 
imagine the effect of 1000 initiates all donating 7 MPs (+6000%).  You 
would have to use Steve Maurer's(?) HQ extension to the critical system 
giving something like:

Fumble		Bloody unlikely
Failure		00
Critical	61+
HyperCrit	12+		4 points back
ExtraCrit	 3+		5 points back
Something Wonderful on 1or 2	6 points back!

Of course there are very few places where so many initiates are so fanatical.  
Most initates have only a couple of points of Divine Magic so they will on 
sacrifice 2 to 3 MPs giving a virtually automatic chance of getting their 
spells back, unless they are unusually pious.  About their only places where 
this might happen are the Old Wind Temple and The Block.  I suspect the 
fanatical devotion of the SBs at the Block allows each initiate to have a 
handful of Divine Magic usable once per year which this small cult VERY 
EFFECTIVE especially in the vacinity of the Block.  

	Gosh thats more that I set out to write!

			Lewis
 

---------------------

From: CHEN190@csc.canterbury.ac.nz (Peter Metcalfe, CAPE Canty)
Subject: Various bits of Rune Lore...
Message-ID: <01HG9IAGZ5SIED2VUM@csc.canterbury.ac.nz>
Date: 24 Aug 94 11:00:06 GMT
X-RQ-ID: 5825

Nick Brooke
-----------

I wrote

>>Antirius never had strong connections to the earth in Dara Happa because
>>the Earth Goddess there was Dendara whereas Ernalda is Elmal's Wife

To which Nick Brooke ejaculates:

>This is God Learner sophistry: useless labels everywhere!

Duh?  useless labels?  I was trying to establish the the relationship between
Elmal/Antirius/Yelmalio.  Joerg wrote that he didn't think that I was correct
in identifying Yelmalio with Antirius because Antirius didn't have strong
connections to the Earth.

For the simple among you:  Antirius does not get Rune Spells from Dendara
(assumed).  Yelmalio does.  How can Yelmalio be Antirius.

This is a perfectly reasonable set of Statements to make.  I argued that
Antirius could not develop earth ties with Dendara because (unstated above) She
was remaining faithful to Yelm.  Whereas Elmal can and did develop strong earth
ties because he married Ernalda (unstated above) who had no inhibitions about
such a relationship.

Plainspeak:  Dendara will not marry Antirius because she mourns for Yelm. 
Ernalda will marry Elmal because Orlanths away (strong Lunar bias here freely
admitted).

I then tried to trace a path between Antirius and Yelmalio and Elmal.  I think
I have found a satisfactory continuity between Antirius and Yelmalio.  It goes
something like this:  Antirius goes to the Hills of Gold.  He is mortally
wounded.  He crawls back to Dara Happa where he dies.  On the Westfaring, on
which all bodies normally go, he is travelling through the Winterwoods.  There
he is captured by Elves under High King Elf.  They take him to Arroin who heals
him (Arroin is mentioned as being in Winterwood in Abelard's quest).  The elves
then call him Yelmalio for they think he is the son of the sun.

I have had less luck in trying to find a continuity between Yelmalio and Elmal. 
Despite this I think there is one (after all: yELMALio, coincidental?).  I am 
busy debating with Joerg over these matters and hope to find an acceptable
solution.

So instead of taking a paragraph out of context and dismissing it as
'sophistry: useless labels everywhere!', I would appreciate it if you gave a
fuller account of what you disliked.

I then wrote

>>IMO, Elmal is worshipped in the place of Orlanth in Orlanths clan system in
>>the Elmali clans - something which is stated in the Yelmalio writeup whereas
>>Antirius is worshipped in the manner of Sun County.

Nick writes

>An odd position to hold, given the myths where Elmal guards Orlanth's stead 
>etc....Certainly what you say is not the normal Elmal-among-Orlanthi
>position.

The myths of Elmal are all in KoS.  Page numbers are refering to it.

p81. "...he [Orlanth] named Elmal, his loyal thane, to lead and guard the
Housecarls, and his family while he was gone."

p82.  "Orlanth gave command of the Stead to Elmal, his loyal thane."

Elmal is not a doorman or nightwatch but a thane.  He is then promoted to
organize the stead while Orlanth is away.

p223. Elaml is the judge of what steed is to be used by the Orlanthi.

p255.  Elmal is cited as a common cult for a clan to specialize in.

There is nothing in KoS to indicate that Elmal holds the position of a
nightwatch.  He is the coordinator of the clan/stead when most of its forces
are away raiding and the leader of the homeguard.

To maximize their effectiveness, a given grouping of clans (at the dawn) would 
have some clans actually specializing in worshipping Elmal.  They would not
waste time in worshipping Orlanth except in the GL sense of lay member as it
would diminish their effectiveness.  But Orlanth via Heort determines the
social system and the clan rules, not Elmal.  So I believed the Elmali clans
would have the males worshipping Elmal but hold to the traditional Orlanthi
system in much the same way that a Humakti specializing clan would.  They would
still consider themselves Orlanthi and would form a triachy etc with 
conventional clans with no hassles.  That is what I meant about the worship of
Elmal in the Elmali clans.

Nick then talks of the Elmal-among-Orlanthi.  As it is very difficult to
imagine worship of Elmal outside the Orlanthi, I presume he is talking about
the worship of Elmal within conventional clans.  In myths, the King or chief of
these clans is always an Orlanthi (or on the not uncommon occasion, she might 
be a Vingan).  It is these myths, I understand, Elmal is depicted as a
nightguard.  That is fine.  There is no Elmal job police sent by the central
temple to check that Elmali are holding jobs compatible with their cult status.
But I did *not* say anything about these people and confined my opinions to the
Elmali clans which is where most of the worship in a grouping of clans takes
place.

--Peter Metcalfe.


---------------------

From: jsnead@netcom.com (John R. Snead)
Subject: Runequest: Agimori & Veldang Questions
Message-ID: <9408231301.AA00324@yelm.Holland.Sun.COM>
Date: 23 Aug 94 14:01:59 GMT
X-RQ-ID: 5826

	[Fwd to the RuneQuest Daily... - HL]

>From: jsnead@netcom.com (John R. Snead)
>Subject: Runequest: Agimori & Veldang Questions
>Message-ID: 
>Organization: NETCOM On-line Communication Services (408 261-4700 guest)
>X-Newsreader: TIN [version 1.2 PL1]
>Date: Mon, 22 Aug 1994 09:20:23 GMT
>Lines: 16


Well, I was just looking over that wonderful supplement River of Cradles,
and noticed that one of the races of Prax were the Agimori.  I'd always
assumed they were just black people with normal human stats.  Here they
were a kind of improved human with innate armour and fire resistance.
OK, so are the Agimori of Pamaltela the same kind of folks?  Also, if, as
it seems, Agimori are a bit different from normal humans, how about
the Veldang.  Has anyone of there worked them out, or are they discussed
in any detail anywhere?  I'd assume they are sneaky, secretive, and stealthy
by nature, but am interested if anyone has done more with them.

Thanks

-Heron jsnead@netcom.com



---------------------

From: yfcw29@castle.ed.ac.uk (Simon Hibbs)
Subject: Runequest: Agimori & Veldang Questions
Message-ID: <9408231303.AA00353@yelm.Holland.Sun.COM>
Date: 23 Aug 94 14:03:28 GMT
X-RQ-ID: 5827

>Newsgroups: rec.games.frp.misc
>From: yfcw29@castle.ed.ac.uk (Alice Holt)
>Subject: Re: Runequest: Agimori & Veldang Questions
>References: 
>Message-ID: 
>Sender: news@festival.ed.ac.uk (remote news read deamon)
>Organization: Edinburgh University
>Date: Mon, 22 Aug 1994 12:46:20 GMT
>Lines: 25

jsnead@netcom.com (John R. Snead) writes:

>Well, I was just looking over that wonderful supplement River of Cradles,
>and noticed that one of the races of Prax were the Agimori.  I'd always
>assumed they were just black people with normal human stats.  Here they
>were a kind of improved human with innate armour and fire resistance.
>OK, so are the Agimori of Pamaltela the same kind of folks?  Also, if, as
>it seems, Agimori are a bit different from normal humans, how about
>the Veldang.  Has anyone of there worked them out, or are they discussed
>in any detail anywhere?  I'd assume they are sneaky, secretive, and stealthy
>by nature, but am interested if anyone has done more with them.

The Agimori in prax are the 'Men and a Half', they are descended from
Lodril and have inherited some of his fiery nature. The Agimori are the
black race of Glorantha, orriginating from the southern continent of
Pamaltela. The white race are called the Wareran. There is no difference
in the stats of most Wareran or Agimori from normal humans. Viking types
from the Ygg's Islands might have a point or two greater SIZ like their
viking counterparts on earth.

The Veldang are akin to the Vadeli, I believe. They have normal human
stats so far as I know.

Simon Hibbs
yfcw29@castle.ed.ac.uk

---------------------

From: Bob.Luckin@tiuk.ti.com
Subject: Lunar Toons
Message-ID: <9408231310.AA28745@ibrox.tiuk.ti.com>
Date: 23 Aug 94 13:10:48 GMT
X-RQ-ID: 5828

Hi from Bob Luckin !

Darkwalk
========
Keith Smith (X-RQ-ID: 5814) asks :-

>       On to another point, I would like to throw a question into the arena
> for debate.   In all available sources to me (i.e. RQ2, Trollpack, CoP, CoT,
> original rulebook, and RQ3 GoG, Trollpack, Trollgods, etc.)       Orlanth is
> given the spell of Darkwalk (which confers invisibilty AND silence), which
> all sources state he stole from Kyger Litor.  Although Kyger Litor has no
> such spell, Argan Argar does.  How does one account for this????  Also, in
> RQ3  the only god which confers an invisibilty-type spell is Annilla ( the
> spell is Conceal).
>      Any, explanations would be helpful.

I assume that Kyger Litor lost this power when Orlanth stole it, hence she
no longer has the spell.  Since it wasn't stolen from Argan Argar, he still
has it.

Something similar happened at the Hill of Gold; when Zorak Zoran defeated
Yelmalio he took his fire powers, and so ZZ cultists are able to learn
Fire Arrow, Fireblade and Ignite, which are prohibited to other troll cults.
CoP states the first two of these are unavailable to Yelmalio cultists for
the same reason; I suspect Ignite should be unavailable to them as well.

I have a friend who used to both GM and play as a PC in other campaigns.  He's
moved away now, but I remember he was most dischuffed when RQ3 came out and
he discovered his favourite character (Villa - a thief - and yes, the name
was inspired by the character in Blake's Seven) would lose his Invisibility
spell under the new rules.


Martin (X-RQ-ID: 5796) says :-
> Bob Luckin says:
> >We have the hyenas - we can rebuild him
> I don't know when I've laughed so long--thanks for making my day!

You're welcome !  Amazing to find someone else with a sense of humour as
warped as mine...  :-)

This also suggests a good number to use when your Issaries PCs ask how
many pieces are left to find before the God can be reassembled; just tell 'em
"6 million" and charge them for a Divination.


Lunar Toons
===========
MOB (X-RQ-ID: 5797) confirms that the current Red Emperor may indeed
resemble Yosemite Sam; it was an earlier incarnation who was hairless and
from which Anderida is descended.  Thanks for this useful tidbit of
information.

Simon Hibbs (X-RQ-ID: 5811) suggests a Toon Quest.  I hadn't gone quite
as far as adapting Toon rules to Glorantha, but yes, perhaps we don't need
to beat on Greg to publish HQ after all; we'll just use Toon instead !  :-)

Which reminds me, now that we've assigned Elmer and Sam to Gloranthan
analogues, who gets to be the Martian ?  The Only Old One ?  I suppose it
could be some Chaos deity who wants to destroy the lozenge because it
obstructs his view...

Th-th-th-th-at's all, folks !
-- 
Bob Luckin      voly@tiuk.ti.com      "Able was I ere I saw Corflu"

---------------------

From: pearton@unpsun1.cc.unp.ac.za (Dave Pearton)
Subject: The great David Chaos Gaggle, etc..
Message-ID: 
Date: 23 Aug 94 17:32:27 GMT
X-RQ-ID: 5829


:From: dave_cordes@cl_63smtp_gw.chinalake.navy.mil (Dave Cordes)
:
:Why are you settling with just a David Switch.  In the true spirit of Primal
:Chaos, Thed, etc you could have a Great David Scramble. 
:
:Just take Davids: Cake, Gadbois, Hall, Dunham, Cheng, Baur, Cordes, Pearton,
:DeKruger(hasn't contributed yet, but I know he reads the Dailys). And any
:others I may have inadvertently missed.  Shuffle them all up andrandomly
:draw one each time you need a David.

Mwhahahaha .  This is the best yet, not only that but
this would be a intercontinental experiment to put the God
Learner's efforts to shame!  The great David Chaos-Gaggle would
cover most continents in its unbreakable grip.......

:Hey, I don't know all the rules yet, but would this make a good Trollball
:Team?

One shudders to think of the consequences (Ok, who's game for it
at RQConII ;)

-----------------
:"Look at the map in Codex #2, lentil-brain!"
:  --  Name and address withheld, God Learner Studies Department, Nochet
:      College of Further Education.

The Gift Carriers of the Sending Gods have your number, expect a
visit soon ;)

--------------

Joerg in X-RQ-ID: 5779

[An excellent exposition of Gloranthan Cosmology deleted, but greatly
appreciated!]

> But what are the upper and lower bounds of this?  Is there a roof to the
> upper heavens and a lower bound to the hells?  There would have to be if
> chaos enters "from outside".

:IMO the Upper heaven allows a plain view into the unformed substance of 
:the Void. Only Dayzatar and his minions face this (I wonder how 
:chaos-tainted this makes them, although another Gloranthan term for this 
:is "mystic"). The outer Hell is in fact a border region where Darkness 
:gradually becomes Chaos, and the deities and heroes of Darkness fight 
:their encounters with invaders from the Void here.  Invaders to the Upper 
:Heaven are not so much fought but reasoned away.
:
:I find it interesting though that the holder of Truth is directly exposed 
:to the Void. Truth may be his weapon, but what does this use do to Truth?"


Not only that but it has interesting implications for the
Gloranthan view of truth - the bounds of the cosmos are where the
"single truth" of Glorantha give way to the "multiple truths" of
the Void.  Dayzatar, as the embodiment of truth, thus maintains the
border by his very nature.  This provides yet another reason to
hate illuminates - by their rejection of a single Gloranthan truth
they are weakening the borders of the cosmos which are maintained
by the common consensus of truth.

Also, thank you to Joerg, Sandy and Alex for their excellent and
entertaining answers.

Cheers,
Just another link in the cosmic David....

ps: Alex: I do find you (and all others in Britian) responsible for cricket,
especially after last week-end's humilation. 

-- 
***********************************************************************
Dave Pearton				* ....As I was saying before I
Biochemistry Dept.			* was so rudely interrupted
University of Natal			* by one of my multiple
Pietermaritzburg			* personalities....
South Africa				*
pearton@unpsun1.cc.unp.ac.za		* Naked Lunch (W.S. Burroughs)
************************************************************************

---------------------

From: ANDOVER@delphi.com
Subject: Davids, Darkwalk
Message-ID: <01HG8TO5TVFM90OXEU@delphi.com>
Date: 23 Aug 94 06:07:42 GMT
X-RQ-ID: 5830

>Why would the Godlearners waste their time switching Davids when they
could combine them all into one David?  I'm thinking of that Michael
Morrcock novel (the name slips my mind) where characters are combined!
At least the resulting Godlearner "creation" wouldn't be hermaphroditic,
unlike the creature in the novel!  But what powers would it have?
>The point is that Orlanth stole DarkWalk from KL, therefore KL no longer
has it; the parallel is Yelmalio's Fire spells, now in the possession of
good old ZZ!  

---------------------

From: yfcw29@castle.edinburgh.ac.uk
Subject: Misc mutterings
Message-ID: <9408231601.aa22738@uk.ac.ed.castle>
Date: 23 Aug 94 15:01:52 GMT
X-RQ-ID: 5831

Dave Cordes says :

>Just take Davids: Cake, Gadbois, Hall, Dunham, Cheng, Baur, Cordes, Pearton,
>DeKruger(hasn't contributed yet, but I know he reads the Dailys).  And any
>others I may have inadvertently missed.  Shuffle them all up and randomly
>draw one each time you need a David.

Perhaps we should all call each other David, just to avoid any confusion?


Kevin Rose says :

>        Anyone have any information on whether a sever spirit is suposed 
>to be resurectable?

I always thought it was so, Does it not say in the spell description?


Keith E. Smith says :

> According to Cults of Prax page 59, Etyries WAS a daughter of Issaries

I always assumed that in historical literature 'son of god X' and 'daughter
of godess Y' was synonymous with Rune status in the cult. Thus Arkat was a
Runelord of Humakt and so several tales about him say he was a son of
Humakt. (I know we have been over this before).

Perhaps this has something to do with heroquesting? Perhaps every cult has
a quest to become a child of the god(ess). I would not be at all
surprised if it turned out that Garzeen and Goldentongue were heroes of
the early Issaries cult, the founders of subcults which have grown to
define Issaries worship.

If Etyries was orriginaly a priestess of Garzeen, surely the cult she
founded would carry over the Garzeen cult strictures. I am sure these
could have been heroquested away, but maybe it is too late in the
development of the new cult for that.


Alex says to Joerg :

>Ready, schmeady.  It was 20km away, and still is, by train-strike-ridden
>cycle-only transport.  Please stand by.

You aren't the only one suffering under this godforsaken ban, Now I know
what the Fronellan's felt like, and I only have to live with it two days
in seven!

Simon Hibbs
yfcw29@

---------------------

From: gkca16@udcf.gla.ac.uk (S.Phillips)
Subject: If I am an NPC, which toon am I?
Message-ID: <18128.199408231458@lenzie.cent.gla.ac.uk>
Date: 23 Aug 94 16:58:48 GMT
X-RQ-ID: 5832

Hi from Sam
-----------

Exams. Exams. Exams!!

I return to normality next week. See you then.

Please send no more Email requests for Varmandisaga. It will go snail-mail
when it is completed. I can't send the maps'n'pics E-mail. I will be asking
for SAE's when the time is right. I count 20 requests but I am sure there were
more. I fear I have lost some My mate Paul Devlin (one-time writer of fine
alternative comics) has started writing stuff for it too. It currently stands
at around 50 sides.  Hopefully I can photocopy onto both sides to reduce weight.I am, sadly, bankrupt so I may have to request contributions towards printing.
I propise you that it *is* worth it. Swapsies *are* valid currency.

If anyone wants to contribute to our less than serious exploration of Sartarian Clan Life I am most happy to receive. Anything on Lunars, Ducks, Apple Lane,
Orlevings, Larnste's Table, Jonstown, etc etc are especially welcome.

Just Email me at GKCA16@UDCF.GLASGOW.AC.UK.

By way of an apology, I have posted a portion of it to the Digest. I hope you
like it. Unfortunately, since then I have been Gregged again. Waaa!.. Big 
thanks to Nick for being the messenger. I have not decided what to do about
it. Perhaps Greg is wrong? ;-)

Daffy is an Eurmal if ever there was one.

Cheers!
Sam. x

Sam Phillips,
Not Scotland But Sartar,
Not Ormthane but Swan,
Not Varmanditula but Oakton.

*sigh!*

"Where d'go, Musky?" - Vincent-van-gopher.