From: RuneQuest-Request@Glorantha.Holland.Sun.COM (RQ Digest Maintainer) To: RuneQuest@Glorantha.Holland.Sun.COM (Daily automated RQ-Digest) Reply-To: RuneQuest@Glorantha.Holland.Sun.COM (RuneQuest Daily) Subject: RuneQuest Daily, Sat, 27 Aug 1994, part 2 Sender: Henk.Langeveld@Holland.Sun.COM Content-Return: Prohibited Precedence: junk --------------------- From: Bob.Luckin@tiuk.ti.com Subject: Moon boats, exotics Message-ID: <9408261745.AA00307@ibrox.tiuk.ti.com> Date: 26 Aug 94 17:45:55 GMT X-RQ-ID: 5897 Hi from Bob Luckin ! The Moon's a balloon ==================== David Dunham (X-RQ-ID: 5875) to Nick Eden :- >Nick Eden (not yet affected by the Nick switch despite living in the UK) says >>Nah, that isn't the red moon. Thats the bit of moon rock that supports >>the moon boat by being pulled back towards the red moon. Look at the >>lines of the boat. > >Perhaps, but the boat is described as riding a beam of moonlight. I agree with David. There was a discussion of this a while back, when MOB posted an excellent description (X-RQ-ID: 976) upon which I presume the text and cover of SiP is based :- > The famous flying Moon Boats are used by the Empire to carry > messengers, important passengers and occasionally troops over > great distances. They travel on and are propelled by special > beams of moonlight, focussed from the Red Moon itself. Inside There's no mention of a red rock ("Red Rock : It's not red and there's no rocks in it") in the posting, and it sounds like an important detail to have missed out. Also, I see no suspension wires running to the red orb in the picture, only the wispy edges of the moonbeam which is visible near the prow and stern of the boat. I'd have expected this (and the rest of the picture) to be tinted red, after the text description in SiP. But perhaps the artist forgot that the beam "bathes the whole area in it's reddish light". Or perhaps someone decided that would make the cover less attractive and reduce sales ? However, Nick's idea is fun, and resembles the other Nick's (Brooks) earlier suggestion that moon boats were hot air balloons whose canopies were half black and half red, steered by altering how much of the red was turned towards the moon. Is there a more sinister reason behind this similarity ? Perhaps the Daily God Learners perpetrated a Nick switch a while back, and this is the first sign of something wrong ? This could be anothre argument against the great David switch... Exotics ======= Robert McArthur (X-RQ-ID: 5863) says regarding the exotic units in Dragon Pass :- >So, I think there's something more to the exotics than just hyped up "normal" >magic. I agree. Perhaps that's why the units are called "exotics" in the first place ? Gems ==== Martin (X-RQ-ID: 5878) suggests pulling his gem descriptions from AOL, if it ever makes it across the water, and then says :- >I should probably also send it to soda.berkeley. Please do ! For me at least, that would be the better solution. :-) Deeply Dippy ============ Joerg suggested a lot of DP variants, which for some reason spawned the following half-formed idea. How about a Diplomacy variant based on Glorantha ? The basis would be Genertela during the thaw; depending on the exact date you decided to start, several of the areas would still be under the Syndics' Ban at the start of the game, and each time you tried to invade one of these you'd have to roll a die to see if it had opened yet... No doubt Diplomacy fans (I don't actually own the game) can come up with lots of other ideas for Gloranthan dippy... Cheers, Bob -- Bob Luckin voly@tiuk.ti.com "Able was I ere I saw Corflu" --------------------- From: DevinC@aol.com Subject: Re: RuneQuest Daily, Thu, 25 Aug 1994, part 1 Message-ID: <9408261530.tn332777@aol.com> Date: 26 Aug 94 19:30:39 GMT X-RQ-ID: 5898 Devin Cutler here: First, I believe that it is fairly obvious (as obvious as anything CAN be in Glorantha) that Entekos is Molanni. The similarities are too great and the differences are ecrtainly cultural. Nick, why do you feel that supposing that Molanni and Entekos are one and the same necessarily precludes her having a moon-related aspect in Dara Happa, but with that aspect ignored in Rebellus Terminus lands (where that aspect may have been downplayed once the Red Goddess rose to prominence)? Colin writes: "I don't think these covert spells have all the scenario-knackering potential that some folks credit them with. In my experience something inevitably goes wrong even with the most foolproof plans." Maybe, but it oftenr equires the GM to twst and writhe to make that wrong thing happen. I outlawed Concealment and Invisibility in RQ2 when I ran the Raid on Yelorna. With Conceal up, it was way too easy to go in and steal the Labrys et al. Regards, Devin Cutler devinc@aol.com --------------------- From: DevinC@aol.com Subject: Re: RuneQuest Daily, Fri, 26 Aug 1994, part 1 Message-ID: <9408261603.tn334271@aol.com> Date: 26 Aug 94 20:03:30 GMT X-RQ-ID: 5899 Devin's Homonculus here: Jon writes: "I note we haven't heard much from Devin recently. At last I have uncovered the reason! "Devin" is in fact a False David, whose identity has become hopelessly lost in the Great Davids Muddle!" Tish Tosh! My master has been enslaved by the demon (i.e. boss) Harvey Finkel and is labouring 15-16 hours per day to finish Harvey's fiendish project. Keep it quiet, but there is a plan to free him after Labour Day. Also, during his period of enslavement, my master has been digesting GRoY and redigesting KoS and no doubt will have much to say upon his escape. My master also commented... Alex writes: "Nope. Isn't the idea of non-derivative mythology somewhat like the old Rolf Harris line, "Here's an old English folk song which I've just written"?" True enough...and I don't want to turn this into a major debate since I am not THAt upset with it....but that particular myth seemed a bit TOO derivative. Avivath seems rather Jesus-like to me....but I would have only been cheesed out if Greg had had him nailed to a Death Rune. "Perhaps the fact that Dara Happa is (presumably) subject to flooding by the Oslir is relevant here." Certainly, that is what I pictured as the underlying MO of the flood, but nevertheless, Plentonius describes it as a cleansing event initiated, albeit indirectly, by the Sky Gods (Yelm). Therefore, I am still perplexed why Yelm would choose to cleanse the world with an impure element (Water), using a Rebellus Terminus vehicle (Rain) to cause to flood a Lower and therefore unclean deity (Oslira). One would think that, considering all of these impure elements have ganged up on Darra Happa, that rather than a cleansing action, this would have been regarded as an invasion. Goodbye Devin's Homonculus --------------------- From: esoteric@teleport.com (Brad Furst) Subject: Re: Oliver Thomas Pilkington Kirwan "Griselda" Dickinson Message-ID:Date: 26 Aug 94 06:46:05 GMT X-RQ-ID: 5900 On Fri, 26 Aug 1994, David Gadbois wrote: > Brad Furst mentions Oliver Dickinson's latest book, "The Aegean Bronze > Age" (harback ISBN 0521242800, paperback 0521456649.) In the States you > can order it from Cambridge University Press (800-544-3320). They only > have the hardcover version right now. It runs US$64.95 plus $3.76 > shipping. I saw a copy of the book at Convulsion, and it looks great. I bought my papercover copy for $27.95 off the shelf. I should remind RuneQuesters that there is some particular use in studying the Aegean bronze age, especially regarding Griffin Mountain/Island. The citadels used in the Griffin adventures are taken exactly from actual Aegean citadels, line for line, only the names have been changed. Brad Furst esoteric@teleport.com --------------------- From: mmorrison@VNET.IBM.COM (Michael C. Morrison 8-543-4706) Subject: RuneQuest Daily, Fri, 26 Aug 1994, part 3 Message-ID: <1994Aug26.141204.84097@vnet.ibm.com> Date: 26 Aug 94 21:12:04 GMT X-RQ-ID: 5901 *** Reply to note of Fri, 26 Aug 94 09:16:47 +0200 *** by RuneQuest-Request@Glorantha.Holland.Sun.COM Sandy writes: S>;Air bubbles rise through water because the water is "fleeing" S>its natural enemy, the air -- in essence, the water's contraction S>from around the bubbles force them upward. This also explains water's S>surface tension as it pulls into itself to avoid the air. This theory could also explain ice -- often there is air in ice, and the water senses this air and repulses the ice. Of course, the air doesn't want the ice either (it *is* mostly water), so the ice is forced to float at the interface between air and water. The reason most of the ice is below the surface is that the water is sympathetic to its cousin's plight (having air in it) and lets it stay close -- but not too close. And, finally, as ice melts, it rejoins its cousins and lets the air free to rejoin the air. Sound plausible? Other issues: I'm wondering what gods newtlings typically worship. In the Zola Fel valley, they worship (mostly) Zola Fel. What about elsewhere? Do they typically worship the local river god/dess? Are any described/written up? Finally, a question: Aside from the usual chaotic features in the RQ books, do any of you have features you're fond of and care to post? I think chaos is more various and wonderful (ack -- he's illuminated; he's chaotic -- kill!) than the chaotic feature (and Thed Gift) charts allow. I'd like to see some of your favourite features. Michael ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Michael C. Morrison IMS Information Development Tieline 8-543-4706 Santa Teresa Lab, San Jose, California (SWS) Phone (408)463-4706 Bitnet ID: MCM at VNET Fax (408)463-4101 Internet ID: MMORRISON@VNET.IBM.COM or USIB47H4@IBMMAIL.COM IBM Mail Exchange ID: USIB47H4 at IBMMAIL or USIB4MCM at IBMMAIL X.400 Address: G=mcmgm; S=morrison; P=ibmmail; A=ibmx400; C=us ----------------------------------------------------------------------- --------------------- From: carlsonp@wdni.com (Carlson, Pam) Subject: Mooses, if anybody's still interested Message-ID: <2E5E5E14@emssmtp.msm.weyer.com> Date: 26 Aug 94 21:25:00 GMT X-RQ-ID: 5902 Joerg rants: & Who is this Bullwinkle? What's so funny about a beast likely to crush & the upper half of your car when you crash into it, including the & upper half of the passengers? A beast able to look Alex and me in the & eyes when it lowers its head? A beast able to scare the heck out of & today's overgrown cattle, not to speak about the smaller (about Merino & sheep-sized, or Galloway) cattle the Gloranthans have? And yet able to & hide mere 20 paces from you, right within sight? Scott answers: Bullwinkle is an American cartoon moose. He lives with his very best friend Rocky the Flying Squirrel, and they generally spend their time making really bad (or good :) puns and fending off Boris and Natasha, two rather Slavic spies. I add: Not only that, but Bullwinkle J. Moose lives in Frostbite Falls, Minnesota, attends Whatzamatta U., travels to Mooselvania, puts onions on his breakfast cereal, plays his ukelele to charm Moon Mice, and writes bad poetry. Pure genius. We Americans (under 40 anyway) grew up with Rocky & Bullwinkle, and all those other fabulous Jay Ward characters: George of the Jungle, Tom Slick, and Super Chicken ("Pass the supersauce, Fred...). We still have Jay Ward film festivals here in Seattle. These cartoons rely almost entirely on verbal humor, which is all too rare in American entertainment. If embracing Bullwinkle has irrevocably belittled Alces alces in North America, then that's a small price to pay...(sniff!) Joerg, Nils, and all who haven't seen Bullwinkle - go! Find it! See it! You won't be sorry. Scott summarizes: Bullwinkle J. Moose does for Moosedom what Barry Manilow does for thrash metal, so forgive us poor Colonists, for we can't think of moose without giggling. Me again: Yup. And, as counterpoint to Sandy's sad story about the dog getting killed by a wapiti, the STORY OF PAM'S LITTLE SISTER AND THE MOOSE Several years ago my family was driving through one of those animal parks where people stay in their cars and the animals run around free. Having left the lion area and entered the herbivore area, we rolled down the windows. (It was hot, or something, I dunno - I was only 10). My three year old sister was eating animal cookies out of one of those little boxes made to look like a circus-train. We were all thrilled to see a huge moose slowly amble over to the car. Much to our surprize, the moose stuck his head inside the car, and his nose reached way past my dad in the driver's seat. I distinctly remember feeling the car rock as his antlers slammed into the side! The moose's long tongue snaked out another two feet, and snatched my sister's cookies from her hand. The moose engulfed the whole thing, box, string, and all. Then he pulled his head out and slowly ambled away, chewing happily. Stupidly, we were never afraid of this immense animal - even my little sister thought it was hilarious. END Such is the power of the Bullwinkle myth. However, I have been charged by a bull wapiti at the zoo in autumn, and remember suddenly finding God when the bull decided to respect the electric wire at the last minuite! In short, moose seem gentle and comic to most North Americans, while wapiti seem fierce and noble. Maybe this is because wapiti are herd animals, famed for their fighting abilities, while moose are solitary, shy critters - except for the gregarious and artistic Bullwinkle! Pam <^==@ /\ /\ --------------------- From: carlsonp@wdni.com (Carlson, Pam) Subject: Antirius/ Yelmalio/ Elmal Message-ID: <2E5E6E60@emssmtp.msm.weyer.com> Date: 26 Aug 94 22:25:00 GMT X-RQ-ID: 5903 Here's my interpretation of this fiery puzzlement: When Orlanth slew Muharzam (re GRoY), Yelm was so upset that he disintegrated. Most of these peices fell to hell, but Antirius was a peice of Yelm that remained above, to rule/provide light in Yelm's absence. When Yelm returned, Antirius just rejoined with Yelm, though he may still be worshipped in some solar areas as a ruler/law-giver aspect of Yelm. Like Yelmalio, Antirius did go to the Hill of Gold (twice? two different accounts of the same event?), but he want reluctantly, as it was his duty to accompany an emporer. Anterius wasn't killed by the HoG so much as by a continual series of let-downs from human emporers. Yelmalio's ordeal at the HoG sounds very different. This seems like two different gods, but it brings up the question: what is the underlying significance of the HoG to multiple fiery deities? GRoY also mentioned that Shargash fought Orlanthi/Elmali at one point. All through GRoY, Shargash is depicted as being restrained by Antirius; although S resents this, he never breaks free. If Anterius=Yelmalio=Elmal, how could S be controlled by Antirius yet used against Elmal? Therefore, Antirius isn't Elamal, and Anterius most probably isn't Yelmalio, either. Therefore, does Yelmalio = Elmal? The names are pretty similar. And there are Sun Dome temples in Sartar - both are the only acceptable solar dieties in the Orlanthi pantheon. But does Elaml have fire spells? If so, how can he be Yelmalio? Maybe they're all different? Kargzant seems to be yet another totally different fiery diety, although K joined Yelm after the dawning, as anyone who happens to catch a Grazelander puppet play can tell you! Maybe Y, E, K, and any number of other as yet un-mentioned fire/sky dieties were small fire gods who helped folks locally during Yelm's absence. They could have independant sources from Yelm - like Kargzant - or be splinters, like Antirius. Some may have even been Yelm splinters who refused to rejoin at the Dawning? Maybe Yelm had lots of firey sons by all those concubines, whom the DH's fail to acknowledge because they're weren't out of Dendara. Better yet - highly secret bastards of Dayzatar? Comments? How about this? The HoG has a reality warping feature, and makes slightly different copies of a diety who visits, creating multiple versions of fire/sky filial dieties..... Pam <^==@ /\ /\ ---------------------