Bell Digest v940827p2

From: RuneQuest-Request@Glorantha.Holland.Sun.COM (RQ Digest Maintainer)
To: RuneQuest@Glorantha.Holland.Sun.COM (Daily automated RQ-Digest)
Reply-To: RuneQuest@Glorantha.Holland.Sun.COM (RuneQuest Daily)
Subject: RuneQuest Daily, Sat, 27 Aug 1994, part 2
Sender: Henk.Langeveld@Holland.Sun.COM
Content-Return: Prohibited
Precedence: junk


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From: Bob.Luckin@tiuk.ti.com
Subject: Moon boats, exotics
Message-ID: <9408261745.AA00307@ibrox.tiuk.ti.com>
Date: 26 Aug 94 17:45:55 GMT
X-RQ-ID: 5897

Hi from Bob Luckin !

The Moon's a balloon
====================
David Dunham (X-RQ-ID: 5875) to Nick Eden :-

>Nick Eden (not yet affected by the Nick switch despite living in the UK) says
>>Nah, that isn't the red moon. Thats the bit of moon rock that supports
>>the moon boat by being pulled back towards the red moon. Look at the
>>lines of the boat.
>
>Perhaps, but the boat is described as riding a beam of moonlight.

I agree with David.  There was a discussion of this a while back, when MOB
posted an excellent description (X-RQ-ID: 976) upon which I presume the
text and cover of SiP is based :-
> The famous flying Moon Boats are used by the Empire to carry
> messengers, important passengers and occasionally troops over
> great distances.  They travel on and are propelled by special
> beams of moonlight, focussed from the Red Moon itself.  Inside

There's no mention of a red rock ("Red Rock : It's not red and there's no
rocks in it") in the posting, and it sounds like an important detail to have
missed out.  Also, I see no suspension wires running to the red orb in the
picture, only the wispy edges of the moonbeam which is visible near the prow
and stern of the boat.  I'd have expected this (and the rest of the picture)
to be tinted red, after the text description in SiP.  But perhaps the artist
forgot that the beam "bathes the whole area in it's reddish light".  Or
perhaps someone decided that would make the cover less attractive and reduce
sales ?

However, Nick's idea is fun, and resembles the other Nick's (Brooks) earlier
suggestion that moon boats were hot air balloons whose canopies were half
black and half red, steered by altering how much of the red was turned
towards the moon.  Is there a more sinister reason behind this similarity ?
Perhaps the Daily God Learners perpetrated a Nick switch a while back, and
this is the first sign of something wrong ?  This could be anothre argument
against the great David switch...


Exotics
=======
Robert McArthur (X-RQ-ID: 5863) says regarding the exotic units in Dragon
Pass :-

>So, I think there's something more to the exotics than just hyped up "normal"
>magic.

I agree.  Perhaps that's why the units are called "exotics" in the first
place ?


Gems
====
Martin (X-RQ-ID: 5878) suggests pulling his gem descriptions from AOL, if it
ever makes it across the water, and then says :-
>I should probably also send it to soda.berkeley.

Please do !  For me at least, that would be the better solution.  :-)


Deeply Dippy
============
Joerg suggested a lot of DP variants, which for some reason spawned the
following half-formed idea.  How about a Diplomacy variant based on
Glorantha ?  The basis would be Genertela during the thaw; depending on the
exact date you decided to start, several of the areas would still be under
the Syndics' Ban at the start of the game, and each time you tried to invade
one of these you'd have to roll a die to see if it had opened yet...

No doubt Diplomacy fans (I don't actually own the game) can come up with lots
of other ideas for Gloranthan dippy...

Cheers, Bob
-- 
Bob Luckin      voly@tiuk.ti.com      "Able was I ere I saw Corflu"

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From: DevinC@aol.com
Subject: Re: RuneQuest Daily, Thu, 25 Aug 1994, part 1
Message-ID: <9408261530.tn332777@aol.com>
Date: 26 Aug 94 19:30:39 GMT
X-RQ-ID: 5898

Devin Cutler here:

First, I believe that it is fairly obvious (as obvious as anything CAN be in
Glorantha) that Entekos is Molanni. The similarities are too great and the
differences are ecrtainly cultural. 

Nick, why do you feel that supposing that Molanni and Entekos are one and the
same necessarily precludes her having a moon-related aspect in Dara Happa,
but with that aspect ignored in Rebellus Terminus lands (where that aspect
may have been downplayed once the Red Goddess rose to prominence)?

Colin writes:

"I don't think these covert spells have all the scenario-knackering potential
that some folks credit them with. In my experience something inevitably goes
wrong even with the most foolproof plans."

Maybe, but it oftenr equires the GM to twst and writhe to make that wrong
thing happen. I outlawed Concealment and Invisibility in RQ2 when I ran the
Raid on Yelorna. 

With Conceal up, it was way too easy to go in and steal the Labrys et al.

Regards,

Devin Cutler 
devinc@aol.com


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From: DevinC@aol.com
Subject: Re: RuneQuest Daily, Fri, 26 Aug 1994, part 1
Message-ID: <9408261603.tn334271@aol.com>
Date: 26 Aug 94 20:03:30 GMT
X-RQ-ID: 5899

Devin's Homonculus here:

Jon writes:

"I note we haven't heard much from Devin recently.  At last I have uncovered
the reason!  "Devin" is in fact a False David, whose identity has become
hopelessly lost in the Great Davids Muddle!"

Tish Tosh! My master has been enslaved by the demon (i.e. boss) Harvey Finkel
and is labouring 15-16 hours per day to finish Harvey's fiendish project.
Keep it quiet, but there is a plan to free him after Labour Day.

Also, during his period of enslavement, my master has been digesting GRoY and
redigesting KoS and no doubt will have much to say upon his escape.

My master also commented...

Alex writes:

"Nope.  Isn't the idea of non-derivative mythology somewhat like the old
Rolf Harris line, "Here's an old English folk song which I've just written"?"

True enough...and I don't want to turn this into a major debate since I am
not THAt upset with it....but that particular myth seemed a bit TOO
derivative.

Avivath seems rather Jesus-like to me....but I would have only been cheesed
out if Greg had had him nailed to a Death Rune.

"Perhaps the fact that Dara Happa is (presumably) subject to flooding by the
Oslir is relevant here."

Certainly, that is what I pictured as the underlying MO of the flood, but
nevertheless, Plentonius describes it as a cleansing event initiated, albeit
indirectly, by the Sky Gods (Yelm). Therefore, I am still perplexed why Yelm
would choose to cleanse the world with an impure element (Water), using a
Rebellus Terminus vehicle (Rain) to cause to flood a Lower and therefore
unclean deity (Oslira).

One would think that, considering all of these impure elements have ganged up
on Darra Happa, that rather than a cleansing action, this would have been
regarded as an invasion.

Goodbye
Devin's Homonculus


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From: esoteric@teleport.com (Brad Furst)
Subject: Re: Oliver Thomas Pilkington Kirwan "Griselda" Dickinson
Message-ID: 
Date: 26 Aug 94 06:46:05 GMT
X-RQ-ID: 5900

On Fri, 26 Aug 1994, David Gadbois wrote:
> Brad Furst mentions Oliver Dickinson's latest book, "The Aegean Bronze
> Age" (harback ISBN 0521242800, paperback 0521456649.)  In the States you
> can order it from Cambridge University Press (800-544-3320).  They only
> have the hardcover version right now.  It runs US$64.95 plus $3.76
> shipping.  I saw a copy of the book at Convulsion, and it looks great.

I bought my papercover copy for $27.95 off the shelf.
I should remind RuneQuesters that there is some particular use in 
studying the Aegean bronze age, especially regarding Griffin 
Mountain/Island.  The citadels used in the Griffin adventures are taken 
exactly from actual Aegean citadels, line for line, only the names have 
been changed.  

Brad Furst
esoteric@teleport.com



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From: mmorrison@VNET.IBM.COM (Michael C. Morrison 8-543-4706)
Subject: RuneQuest Daily, Fri, 26 Aug 1994, part 3
Message-ID: <1994Aug26.141204.84097@vnet.ibm.com>
Date: 26 Aug 94 21:12:04 GMT
X-RQ-ID: 5901

*** Reply to note of Fri, 26 Aug 94 09:16:47 +0200
*** by RuneQuest-Request@Glorantha.Holland.Sun.COM

Sandy writes:
S>;Air bubbles rise through water because the water is "fleeing"
S>its natural enemy, the air -- in essence, the water's contraction
S>from around the bubbles force them upward. This also explains water's
S>surface tension as it pulls into itself to avoid the air.

  This theory could also explain ice -- often there is air in ice,
  and the water senses this air and repulses the ice.  Of course,
  the air doesn't want the ice either (it *is* mostly water), so
  the ice is forced to float at the interface between air and water.
  The reason most of the ice is below the surface is that the water
  is sympathetic to its cousin's plight (having air in it) and lets
  it stay close -- but not too close.  And, finally, as ice melts,
  it rejoins its cousins and lets the air free to rejoin the air.
  Sound plausible?

Other issues:  I'm wondering what gods newtlings typically worship.
In the Zola Fel valley, they worship (mostly) Zola Fel.  What about
elsewhere?  Do they typically worship the local river god/dess?  Are
any described/written up?

Finally, a question:  Aside from the usual chaotic features in the RQ
books, do any of you have features you're fond of and care to post?  I
think chaos is more various and wonderful (ack -- he's illuminated; he's
chaotic -- kill!) than the chaotic feature (and Thed Gift) charts allow.
I'd like to see some of your favourite features.

Michael
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From: carlsonp@wdni.com (Carlson, Pam)
Subject: Mooses, if anybody's still interested
Message-ID: <2E5E5E14@emssmtp.msm.weyer.com>
Date: 26 Aug 94 21:25:00 GMT
X-RQ-ID: 5902


Joerg rants:
& Who is this Bullwinkle? What's so funny about a beast likely to crush
& the upper half of your car when you crash into it, including the
& upper half of the passengers? A beast able to look Alex and me in the
& eyes when it lowers its head? A beast able to scare the heck out of
& today's overgrown cattle, not to speak about the smaller (about Merino
& sheep-sized, or Galloway) cattle the Gloranthans have? And yet able to
& hide mere 20 paces from you, right within sight?

Scott answers:
Bullwinkle is an American cartoon moose.  He lives with his very
best friend Rocky the Flying Squirrel, and they generally spend their
time making really bad (or good :) puns and fending off Boris and
Natasha, two rather Slavic spies.

I add:
Not only that, but Bullwinkle J. Moose lives in Frostbite Falls, Minnesota, 
attends  Whatzamatta U.,
travels to Mooselvania, puts onions on his breakfast cereal, plays his 
ukelele
to charm Moon Mice, and writes bad poetry.  Pure genius.

We Americans (under 40 anyway) grew up with Rocky & Bullwinkle, and all 
those other fabulous Jay Ward characters:
George of the Jungle, Tom Slick, and Super Chicken ("Pass the supersauce, 
Fred...).  We still have Jay Ward film festivals here in Seattle. These 
cartoons rely almost entirely on verbal humor, which is all too rare in 
American entertainment.  If embracing Bullwinkle has irrevocably belittled 
Alces alces in North America, then that's a small price to pay...(sniff!)

Joerg, Nils, and all who haven't seen Bullwinkle - go!  Find it!  See it! 
 You won't be sorry.

Scott summarizes:
Bullwinkle J. Moose does for Moosedom what Barry Manilow does for
thrash metal, so forgive us poor Colonists, for we can't think of
moose without giggling.

Me again:
Yup.  And, as counterpoint to Sandy's sad story about the dog getting killed 
by a wapiti, the

STORY OF PAM'S LITTLE SISTER AND THE MOOSE

Several years ago my family was driving through one of those animal parks 
where people stay in their cars
 and the animals run around free.  Having left the lion area and entered the 
herbivore area, we rolled down the windows.
(It was hot, or something, I dunno - I was only 10).  My three year old 
sister was eating animal cookies out of one of those little boxes made to 
look like a circus-train.  We were all thrilled to see a huge moose slowly 
amble over to the car.
Much to our surprize, the moose stuck his head inside the car, and his nose 
reached way past my dad
 in the driver's seat.  I distinctly remember feeling the car rock as his 
antlers slammed into the side!
The moose's long tongue snaked out another two feet,  and snatched my 
sister's cookies from her hand.
The moose engulfed the whole thing, box, string, and all.  Then he pulled 
his head out and slowly ambled away, chewing happily.
Stupidly, we were never afraid of this immense animal - even my little 
sister thought it was hilarious.

END

Such is the power of the Bullwinkle myth.

However, I have been charged by a bull wapiti at the zoo in autumn, and 
remember suddenly finding God when the bull decided
 to respect the electric wire at the last minuite!

In short, moose seem gentle and comic to most North Americans,  while wapiti 
seem fierce and noble.
Maybe this is because wapiti are herd animals, famed for their fighting 
abilities, while moose are solitary, shy  critters
 - except for the gregarious and artistic Bullwinkle!

Pam

<^==@
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From: carlsonp@wdni.com (Carlson, Pam)
Subject: Antirius/ Yelmalio/ Elmal
Message-ID: <2E5E6E60@emssmtp.msm.weyer.com>
Date: 26 Aug 94 22:25:00 GMT
X-RQ-ID: 5903


Here's my interpretation of this fiery puzzlement:

When Orlanth slew Muharzam (re GRoY), Yelm was so upset that he 
disintegrated.  Most of these peices fell to hell,
but Antirius was a peice of Yelm that remained above, to rule/provide light 
in Yelm's absence.  When Yelm returned, Antirius  just rejoined with Yelm, 
though he may still be worshipped in some solar areas as a ruler/law-giver 
aspect of Yelm.  Like Yelmalio, Antirius did go to the Hill of Gold (twice? 
two different accounts of the same event?), but he want reluctantly, as it 
was his duty to accompany an emporer.  Anterius wasn't killed by the HoG so 
much as by a continual series of let-downs from human emporers.  Yelmalio's 
ordeal at the HoG sounds very different.  This seems like two different 
gods, but it brings up the question:  what is the underlying significance of 
the HoG to multiple fiery deities?

GRoY also mentioned that Shargash fought Orlanthi/Elmali at one point.   All 
through GRoY, Shargash is depicted as being
restrained by Antirius; although S resents this, he never breaks free.  If 
Anterius=Yelmalio=Elmal, how could S be controlled by Antirius yet used 
against Elmal?
Therefore, Antirius isn't Elamal, and Anterius most probably isn't Yelmalio, 
either.

Therefore, does Yelmalio =  Elmal?  The names are pretty similar.  And there 
are Sun Dome temples in Sartar - both are the only acceptable solar dieties 
in the Orlanthi pantheon.  But does Elaml have fire spells?  If so, how can 
he be Yelmalio?  Maybe they're all different?  Kargzant seems to be yet 
another totally different fiery diety, although K joined Yelm after the 
dawning, as anyone who happens to catch a Grazelander puppet play can tell 
you!

Maybe Y, E, K, and any number of other as yet un-mentioned fire/sky dieties 
were small fire gods who helped folks locally during Yelm's absence.  They 
could have independant sources from Yelm - like Kargzant - or be splinters, 
like Antirius.  Some may have even been Yelm splinters who refused to rejoin 
at the Dawning?  Maybe Yelm had lots of firey sons by all those concubines, 
whom the DH's fail to acknowledge because they're weren't out of Dendara. 
 Better yet - highly secret bastards of Dayzatar?

Comments?

How about this?  The HoG has a reality warping feature, and makes slightly 
different copies of a diety who visits, creating multiple versions of 
fire/sky filial dieties.....


Pam

<^==@
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