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Subject: RuneQuest Daily, Tue, 06 Sep 1994, part 4
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From: gkca16@udcf.gla.ac.uk (S.Phillips)
Subject: Bouncing posts, Starbrow Piracy
Message-ID: <11951.199409051356@lenzie.cent.gla.ac.uk>
Date: 5 Sep 94 15:56:49 GMT
X-RQ-ID: 6052
(Reposting of article originally sent on Saturday)
Hi from Sam
-----------
I have been giving a lot of thought to the Varmandi re-write, trying
to get my original stuff to match Greg's maps and KoS.
Just a few thoughts containing a few juicy map tidbits and anomalies:-
REDBIRD
-------
It seems to me that Redbird was Colymar until two of the Three-Tree clans were
forced to join the Malani by the Lunars - Lysan and Namoldin(g) - in 1613.
But who owns it after 1613? There are a few options,
1) It has been taken over by the Lunar Army. Quite plausible this one but
there is no proof anywhere.
2) It is still held by the Colymar. Well, the Antorling "Apple" Clan are
still in the Arfritha vale and the birches of "over two ridges, from the
place where birches grow" are only a mile(ish) west of Redbird which KoS
claims is still owned by the Antorlings. Perhaps the Antorlings hold
it. Possible, but I highly doubt that the Lunars would be into this.
Also, Greg's map contradicts Kos on this, putting the extent of the
Antorling lands a good few miles short of the birches.
3) The Malani hold it. Three sub possibilities;
i) The Lysan(g) hold it. Possible as they live to the north and west of
Redbird around Larnste's Table. Unlikely as they probably still hold
some loyalty to the Colymar.
ii) The Namoldin(g) hold it. Also possible as they hold the land to the
west of Redbird. Unlikely for the same reasons.
iii) It has been given to the Malani, *but* the former Colymar tribes
cannot be trusted to use it in the interest of the Malani and so
has to be policed in some way, either by Lunars or other Malani or
both. My favourite theory.
Of course, these theories seem to revolve around the fact that the Malani
are in the Lunar Pocket. A fact I appear to have taken for granted, but
now I come to think of it, I fear I have no proof for. Did I read it or
did I make it up? The only reference I can find, somewhat hurriedly (If
anyone could shed lighjt on this I would be grateful) is that they were
not among Starbrow's Rebellion. As this was concluded around Larnste's
Table "with the Lunar army visible below" I would assume that the Lysan
were involved making them less of a candidate for the Redbird holders *and*
perhaps it was at Redbird that the Lunar's were camped at.
I could well be wrong in my assumption that the Malani were not great
resisters of the Lunars, in which case many more of the above scenarios
could be possible. I still doubt that it is Colymar though.
My campaign has Redbird Policed by the Lunars and ruled by an Orleving. My
reasons are not really logic rather than story-preference. With the Orlevings
holdin 2 forts around the Varmandi it makes them a real nasty enemy. Also as
the Varmandi are the *most* warlike of the Colymar it would seem good politics
for the Lunars to put their sworn enemies between them and the rest of Lunars
in Boldhome and Jonstown.
Larnste's Table
---------------
Apart from being a big hill with a flat top, what *is* Larnste's table and
what does it have to do with the affore mentioned God of mobility? Is this
where Larnste stopped to chat with "the ancient one" perhaps the Ormthane
in Ormthane vale? (if indeed Ormthane does mean Dragon King). Perhaps they
shared a goblet or two apon this very spot?
Black Altar
-----------
What is this? It doesn't appear on Greg's maps other than being close to the
grave of Iskell Varmandson where he was done-in by Orlev One-eye. Quite why
this would justify a "black altar" I have no Idea. This is, I fear, a red
herring. Why is there a road leading to it on the Apple Lane map? There isn't
one on Greg's Colymar map. Are Black Altar and Tarndisi's grove the only
two altar's in the Colymar lands? My advice would be to tippex them out of
the Apple Lane map and forget them until someone comes up with something better.
Lunar Manors
------------
There are a two of these marked on Greg's map. One by the Swan River and the
road south of Runegate. One just south of Old man in the Nymie Vale. There is
a Lunar Rune drawn on the Runegate one. Does this signify some sort of temple?
What is meant by a "manor"? A farm, a Roman style manor house, a semi military
base?
Askander`s ridge
----------------
Haha! How Gregged can you get! This is mentioned in the WMFTM in
Genertela:Player's book. It refers to "trolls ... that ate all the sheep on
Askander's Ridge". I took this to mean that this ridge is probably somewhere
around the Varmandi's lands.. Oh, but NO! It lies directly south of Boldhome,
probably just west of Richberry Vale and Lookout and south of Ingan. Not
even Colymar land, let alone Varmandi. This is also the place marked as where
Barngradus, second Colymar King, fought Borngold the Usurper (c. 1350ish?).
Hound Knob
----------
A large hill directly 4-5 miles south of apple lane, just north of Tarndisi's
Grove. It doesn't appear on the Apple Lane map. At least not the new one.
There is two contenders on the old map. I recon this is what the large lump
marked on Jon Quaife's map in TotRM5 is although I reckon his pen slipped when
he named the dragon-newty-runey-thingy Hound Knob instead. The splodge next
to it says "Agbor`s Stead" or "Asbor's" depending on how you read the
handwriting.Queen Leika is killed at the Battle of Hound Knob c1638. If
Larnste's Table looks like a table I wonder what this looks like?
Varmandi Tula
-------------
The main Varmandi settlement is at Oakton which is derictly between Swanton,
Tarkalor keep and Rainbow Mounds. Solid Oak Stead is 2 milesish North east
of Oakton. Both are on or around the swan river. Swan is on the Swan river;
Apple lane is at least a mile south of the southern split. The Swan river
serves as the south boundry for the Varmandi lands. Sadly, I had the whole
lot in the Ormthane Vale. The Orlevings swamped the south Ormthane Vale in 1400.
Tarkalor Keep
-------------
It is unclear from Greg's map whether this is or isn't part of the Varmandi
Lands. Minaryth Blue was born here in 1597 and he was a Hiording (Swanson).
Greg's map puts it either within or just North of the Varmandi lands. The
Orlevings came this way around 1400ish. It has 1572? written beside it.
I wonder what that means.. Was this a look-out post againsed the Lunar king
Phargentes of Tarsh and his army? Did Tarkalor ever stay here? He was married
to the Feathered Horse Queen in 1575 so if he did he probably didn't stay long.
Tarkalor Keep isn't mentioned in the Zin Letters either. I would assume that it
*was* built by Tarkalor in 1572 who had been king for 3yrs. Who owns it now?
The Lunars? Why would they leave a valuable keep to the Colymar? Being it
is only 5 miles from Runegate, how did it escape being caught up in
the Lunar Attack of 1602?
Apple Lane
----------
"..on the traditional boundry between the Colymar and the Malani". Greg's
Colymar map would mark it out as well within the Hiording boundry. Is it
independent? Which clan if any did Gringle represent on the high council?
(Alex has my copy - Alex?).
Zarran & Taral Wars & Karandoli clan
------------------------------------
I think these started in 1400ish when the Orlevings moved south through the
Ormthane Vale, forcing the Varmandi out. Earlier in the beginning of the 1300s
the Varmandi had been forced out of the Afritha vale by the Namoldin, Lysan
and Antorling(?) (or whoever they were before). With the advancing Orlevings the
Varmandi saw this is a good opertunity to try to reclaim some of their old land
and duly attacked the Karandoli(?). Venharl was king of the Colymar at this time
and also a Karandoli. He died at the beginning of the Zarran Wars (c.1418).
The Zarran wars ended with the destruction of the Karandoli tribe and the
passing of the Malani tribe. This contradicts what is said in "Lost Clans"
which says they arrived *after* the passing of the Malani and were destroyed
by Jenstli clan magic. Also, if the Karandoli clan *were* destroyed around 1420
then where was Ortossi (Colymar king 1479-1491) from? The Varmandi also claim
to have destroyed the Karandoli in the Taral War (supposedly before the Zarran
Wars). Confused? You will be... in The Second Wave, the Zarran war is said to
be over by 1360. If the Karandoli were in the Brambleberry Hills then they
weren`t even the Varmandi's Neighbours. Aaarrrgghh!
Any thoughts? Corrections? Flames?...
Cheers!
Sam. x
NSBS
(now to new stuff)
Hi from Sam
-----------
I am having troble sending E-mail out. My last 3 posts have been bouncing for
days. I pray to Mastakos that this arrives. It was sent on Monday 5th.
Alison Place:
> When I was trying to come
>up with an Orlanthi myth, I was using King of Sartar to give me ideas,
>and there was Kallyr Starbrow, a follower of Vinga.
Just to confuse matters and to "Greg" Greg, the Sartar High Council article
from Wyrm's footnotes has Kalyyr Starbrow down as Orlanth Thunderous. This
is, of course, very old now - but interesting. Does this mean that she wasn't a
Vinga or does it mean that Vinga is more like Orlanth Thunderous than
Adventurous (or is it just dated material?).
Glen Bailey:
> Is there any other information about Kallyr in other books besides KoS?
>Where did she get the name of Starbrow?
In the spirit of blatant Wolf Piracy I present the following:-
:COMMON KNOWLEDGE
:
:11. KALYYR STARBROW
: Kheldon Tribe (1700)
: Orlanth Thunderous
:Kalyyr is a chieftaness of her tribe who could be the next king of Sartar,
:but is a woman. She is a very strong and proud woman, always trying to
:maintain justice and prestige for her tribe. Her tribe suffered less than
:many in the fighting ten years earlier. For this Hofstaring is mistrustful.
: She does not like Beneva, (#7) who she thinks is a heavy and jelous bitch.
:She does like Kallai, and thinks that she and he could make a promising pair
:and, perhaps, be the king and queen of Sartar. She has great faith in her
:deity
:
:PRIVATE KNOWLEDGE
:
:KALLYR STARBROW, Cheiftan(ess) of the Kheldon, Priest of Orlanth Thunder
:
: Kalyyr is a famous warrior in Sartar, and appears to be the next in line for
:kingship after the present king dies. She is known to have visited a star in
:her Heroquest, gaining a marvelous magic crystal in doing so which hold power
:and spells, and can lead her (or her soul) back to the star at any time.
: She refuses to commit her people to the fight, and she will also accuse
:anyone who is too excited about going as being a Lunar collaborator and a
:rabble rouser. She is especially distrustful of Vamastal Greyskin who she
:will accuse of being a Lunar spy if he dares to speak against her.
: She is Haughty and volitle, and easily goes into fits of shouting and
:accusation. She will state that her loyalty to the nation of Sartar is
:unquestionable, but she will not allow it to be ruined by a hand of fools and
:cowards.
: She is also interested in rumours of an heir.
:
: (C) - Greg Stafford, sometime long, long ago.
This is *very* different to the write-up she gets in Rough Guide to Boldhome:
:Kallyr Starbrow
:
: Exiled Sartar patriot and heiress of the Sartar royal household. Vingan
:warrior-woman. She is the daughter of Loricon, son of Prince Jarolar,
:and of Enirin Ironeye. She was Queen of the Kheldon tribe until 1613 when she
:beacme the figurehead of a rebellion againsed th Lunar occupiers. She was
:forced to flee for her life after this failed (much of the blame for the
:rebellion fell apon the ducks). SHe finally ended up taking refuge with King
:Broyan of the Volsaxi, and there began to form a corps of vingan warrior-women.
: When Whitewall fell to the Lunars she escaped, along with the majority of
:the Volsaxi, and took refuge in the Stormwalk Mountains. It has been reported
:that she has been involved in the recent events in the Holy Country but her
:current whereabouts are unknown.
:
:(C) - David Hall, Kevin Jacklin & Greg Stafford.
I trust I haven't overstepped my 10% copying allowance here. Alex,
you *aren't* a copywrite lawyer so seem to be qualified to speak knowledgeably,
and at length, about such matters.. (oh yeh, and the alternative spellings are
as in the original - not *my* typos ;-)
I hope this helps. She is certainly a fascinating character.
Cheers!
Sam. x
---------------------
From: 100116.2616@compuserve.com (David Hall)
Subject: Reaching Moon Megacorp
Message-ID: <940905210909_100116.2616_BHG57-1@CompuServe.COM>
Date: 5 Sep 94 21:09:09 GMT
X-RQ-ID: 6061
Howdy all!
I'm still slowly recovering from Convulsion and this last year of hectic
work. At present I am revelling in being gloriously incompentant and lazy
(except where money is concerned), so please bear with me while I recharge
my rather depleted Gloranthan batteries.
I have the following items available for sale:
All prices are UK pounds sterling.
Back copies of Tales of the Reaching Moon #11 & #12 2.50
University of Sog City Conference Guide 6.00
Jar-Eel Assassin T-Shirt (L or XL) 12.99
RuneQuest-Con Compendium 10.00
Please make cheques/postal orders out to David Hall. Prices include UK
postage. For postage to Europe add 10% and elsewhere in the world add 30%.
The following items are now out of print:
All issues of Tales prior to issue #11
The Collected Griselda
Rough Guide to Boldhome
Report on Boldhome
RQ-Con Programme Book
The Glorious ReAscent of Yelm
I hope to be able to sell some copies of the Dara Happan Book of Emperors
very soon. Please send an SSAE if you are interested in buying one.
Send your orders to: David Hall, 21 Stephenson Court, Osborne Street,
Slough, Berkshire, SL1 1TN, England.
Wyrms Footprints:
The date for this is slipping again. Unfortunately, the date given in Tales
#12 was incorrect. I expect it to be out in October/November at the same
time as Tales #13. I apologise for the endless delays on this but I do
promise that when it does come out it will have been worth waiting for!
By the way, Tales #13 will be a Malkioni special and not a Praxian special
(there was some confusion in issue #12 - all due to my addled and hassled
brain before Convulsion).
David Switch:
Please hurry up with this. I want to switch with Dave Cake and get a cheap
holiday in Australia!
Shargash/Entekos/Antirinausia:
I hesitate to say this, but does anyone else out there find all of this
endless analysis and investigation of the Glorious ReAscent obscure,
over-complex, over-blown and completely irrelevant! It all fails to
interest, excite or inspire me. How can any of this waffle help me GM or
play the damn game?
OK, OK, so I can just skip over these bits. But these days I seem to be
skipping over most of the digest...
Vinga:
I think she has the Air, Mobility and Earth runes. She is a deity for
Orlanthi women - but she is also Orlanth Adventuress. Note: I believe that
women can't join the cult of Orlanth per se. They can only join the
religion of Orlanth & Ernalda which gives them automatic access to all
Ernaldan magics and some Orlanthi magics. To get automatic access to almost
all Orlanthi magic (and special Vingan magic) they must join Vinga. This
works the other way for men through the Grain Goddess sub-cult. However,
men can never get access to all female magic - some things must remain
secret and forbidden (usually for very practical reasons)!
I think Vinga was a daughter of Vingkot who has become a goddess and the
daughter of Orlanth over many years of myth telling/heroquesting, and
because her role fits an important niche in Orlanthi society. In some
Orlanthi societies she may still be seen as a daughter of Vingkot and only
a Hero Cult of Orlanth. This theory also leads me to think that she is not
part of the Esrolian Earth pantheon - or only a very recent addition.
Proving her to be a part of this pantheon would make a fun campaign!
Presumably there should be some myth where a young Vinga asks why women
don't bear arms, but isn't satisfied with the answer "because they
don't/Orlanth forbids it". She then goes off and learns how to fight,
returning to confront her father (Orlanth/Vingkot) and force him to accept
the idea of warrior-women in his society - and at the lowest level of the
cult's function, the right of all Orlanthi women to bear arms and defend
themselves.
Anyone want to write this up?! (Though as I remember Lewis' myth covered
part of this.) It's the basic myth for any cult write-up.
Elmal:
Peter Metcalfe writes:
>If we accept that Elmal is a different god.from Antirius or Yelmalio, then
we have
>severe problems (IMO) in trying to sort out what happened to the Elmali
tribes in the
>time of King Tarkalor. They 'wished to be able to bring a sunspear from
their god'.
>Since Elmal does not teach fire magics (and is probably not assoicated
with Yelm to
>get the Sun Spear), then what the dissidents are trying to do is to change
to another
>god. To me, this smacks of concious God Learnerism.
It is actually precisely the opposite! This is one of the many complex ways
that myths evolve and change through time. The Elmali are discovering
"lost" aspects of their deity. Whether this is true or not doesn't really
matter: what matters is what they believe. In this case some of them have
looked at the lowland sun god and decided that he must be linked to their
own sun god (seems very plausible to me). Then either through comparison of
similar myths and/or comparitive heroquesting they have "proved" that their
sun god is a son of Yelm called Yelmalio. They may be "correct" or they may
be "incorrect": but since they believe it then they must be correct (of
course the pure Elmali believe the Yelmalions are wrong and they too are
correct in this belief).
Glorantha isn't a world based on science where things can be proved right
or wrong - where there is one true way. It is a world of shifting myth and
beliefs. It is a place where, if enough people believe in something, then
it becomes the truth for them and creates its own reality. This is why
there are multiple versions of the same god Orlanth; each with different
myths, rituals, pantheons, and spells, and each meeting the local and
unique needs of its worshippers. Is one of these more correct than the
others? Yes, the one YOU believe in! (Well, actually the Orlanth worshipped
by the Greydog clan is the one true Orlanth!!)
The fun aspect of Glorantha is when two belief systems clash - as in the
case of the Elmali. It was the lowland sun worshippers versus the highland
storm. Whose beliefs were more relevant? To many Elmali it was the
lowlander's beliefs that offered more to them in their everyday lives - and
so they converted. Of course, to most Orlanthi the secrets of the
lowlanders were irrelevant to their way of life. However, now that the Red
Goddess disputes the middle air with Orlanth it's not so clear cut,
especially considering the perfidious nature of the Lunar Way!
Note: The comment in King of Sartar is obviously by a Sartarite writer who
is maliciously ascribing to the Yelmalions selfish and grasping motives for
their actions. Their real motives might have been far purer. Perhaps the
Elmali clans were being discriminated against by the Orlanthi clans who
were denying them important clan and tribal positions?
Now, the God Learners would go for a more straightforward and simplistic
solution, i.e. remove the problem by making all of the sun gods exactly the
same! Force everyone to believe the same thing regardless of their
individual and group circumstances. In this lies the seeds of their
failure.
Cheers,
David