From: RuneQuest-Request@Glorantha.Holland.Sun.COM (RQ Digest Maintainer) To: RuneQuest@Glorantha.Holland.Sun.COM (Daily automated RQ-Digest) Reply-To: RuneQuest@Glorantha.Holland.Sun.COM (RuneQuest Daily) Subject: RuneQuest Daily, Tue, 13 Sep 1994, part 1 Sender: Henk.Langeveld@Holland.Sun.COM Content-Return: Prohibited Precedence: junk X-RQ-ID: Intro This is the RuneQuest Daily Bulletin, a mailing list on the subjects of Avalon Hill's RPG and Greg Stafford's world of Glorantha. It is sent out once per day in digest format. More details on the RuneQuest Daily and Digest can be found after the last message in this digest. X-RQ-ID: index 6164: = - re: OTE/Glorantha 6165: = - Fanzine-distributors, please contact me! 6166: = - Stop that GRoY-bashing-bashing 6167: = - A big black stick stack? 6168: = - tricksters, lions, and truestones 6169: = - Re: spirit languages? 6170: = - Pelandan culture dead ? Not in my book 6171: = - Re: RuneQuest Daily, Sun, 11 Sep 1994, part 1 6172: = - Gloranthan Mythology 6173: = - This and That and Truestone 6174: = - Sartar stuff 6175: = - Re: RuneQuest Daily, Sat, 10 Sep 1994 6176: = - Re: Greetings and Sayings 6177: = - Introducing new folks 6178: = - Vinga's spells 6179: = - Shucks. 6180: = - Q&A 6181: = - Sun Dome & Basmoli Father's Tales 6182: = - What My father Told Me - Sun County 6183: = - 2nd post sans GRAY... 6184: = - Trade; Babeester Gor; Humakt --------------------- From: duncan.hedderley@afrc.ac.uk (HEDDERLE) Subject: re: OTE/Glorantha Message-ID: <4457090912091994_A12603_FRIR_118962362A00*@MHS> Date: 12 Sep 94 11:10:07 GMT X-RQ-ID: 6164 Loren Miller (Saturday's Daily?) suggested using Over The Edge's very simple mechanics for a Glorantha game Very briefly, OTE's non-rules are based on a lot of GM adjudication, and the old '2 dice and pray' approach, except that you have more than two dice in your chosen Talents (The beauty of the system is that the Talents are very widely defined; for instance, one talent might be Lunar Legionnairy, covering weapons skills, small unit tactics, fieldcraft, minor magic and the appropriate What My Sergeant Major Told Me; other ideas which occured to me were Smith, or Troll Lore - for those Griselda wannabes) I considered OTE for my (Probably aborted) Intifada in Pavis game, but although it's very simple and chic, I wasn't sure it gave the feeel I wanted from Glorantha. Partly that's 'cause to me Gloranthan combats are a long rally of Attack-Parry-Attack-Parry, rather than OTE's much more fluid, descriptive approach; but also because the strength of OTE is in simply converting packages into mechanics IF YOU KNOW WHAT THE SKILL PACKAGE SHOULD CONTAIN ANYWAY. If you know what your CIA Agent should be able to do, it's easier to write 'CIA Agent 4 dice' than to write all his/her skills and their appropriate %ages. OTOH, RQ 2's character sheet had occasional odd things (like that Throw Rock skill all beginners were so good at) which reminded you that these people were different, and would consider diffreent ways of doing things (eg Throwing rocks at jackals seems a very Ancient Greek type thing to do) So, that's my 2 clacks-worth - nice idea but not quite what I'm looking for Duncan Hedderley --------------------- From: joe@sartar.toppoint.de (Joerg Baumgartner) Subject: Fanzine-distributors, please contact me! Message-ID:Date: 12 Sep 94 08:22:57 GMT X-RQ-ID: 6165 Joerg here. I need to contact Colin Phillips (sp?) and Tom Zunder, both because of deals with Ingo Tschinke regarding distribution of Codex and RQ-Adventures, respectively. Please contact me via e-mail, or Ingo via surface mail! I'd also like to get in touch with the editor/distributor of La Toile d'Arachne Solara (I forgot which of the many namyes to use). I know he has no e-mail access, mais c'est possible que nous avons des participants fran,caises qui saient comment `a contacter luis. -- -- Joerg Baumgartner joe@sartar.toppoint.de --------------------- From: joe@sartar.toppoint.de (Joerg Baumgartner) Subject: Stop that GRoY-bashing-bashing Message-ID: Date: 12 Sep 94 08:23:16 GMT X-RQ-ID: 6166 Nils Weinander in X-RQ-ID: 6112 > I'll really try to stop writing about moose from now on. But if I > do find an angle to get some of them into the Dara Happan mythos, > then I could kill two birds with one stone and combine two really > annoying threads (according to an increasing number of readers) > into one completely meaning-less megathread! :-) I found one not that meaningless: In Manimat's time (not yet Time) the Dara Happan refugees from ice and destruction of the Dome adopt trews as the reindeer people wore. Does this mean the Uncolings were around in southern Peloria, and probably Pent and northern Wastelands as well? S.W. Jones n X-RQ-ID: 6113 > > I'd like to add my voice to chorus of taking the GRAoY discussion > off line, Bob Luckin in X-RQ-ID: 6120 > Hi from Bob Luckin ! > I'd like to add my voice the the chorus of agreement with David Hall's > comments on the Endless ReInterpretation of GRoY. I'm starting to find > these protracted arguments a bit tedious, I'm afraid. I'm also beginning > to hate those mooses to pieces. :-) Ok, that's another three almost in a row. Heck, there have been more lines of complaints than of participation in the GRoY discussion, it seems to me. Seriously, there is a group >= 4 who wants to discuss this, and a group >= 8 or so who yawn and don't want to see this. I don't want to take a poll on this, but it seems we need a public forum for side issues only a part of us is intereted in. I cannot run a mailing list from my organisation, else I'd have started one by now. However, there has been talk about a RQ/Glorantha/other related or semi-related stuff newsgroup. What happened about this? I think the participants of RQ-Daily are sufficient to create even a rec.* group if we all participate. A while ago there was the question what should there be to discuss on that newsgroup. Now I think we have at least a few topics... Well, and I'd like to see the daily and possibly also the digested RQ4-discussion (if such a thing exists) cross-posted to this (to be initiated) newsgroup. Now, comments on this use (and others, like players/material wanted etc requests, plus a RQ-FAQ...) are appreciated. On the Daily as well as in private. -- -- Joerg Baumgartner joe@sartar.toppoint.de --------------------- From: SMITHH@A1.MGH.HARVARD.EDU (Harald Smith 617 724-9843) Subject: tricksters, lions, and truestones Message-ID: <01HH0R5C94TCS5UVVI@MR.MGH.HARVARD.EDU> Date: 12 Sep 94 04:22:00 GMT X-RQ-ID: 6168 Hi all - Pam Carlson writes about several topics in x-rq-id 6126. In regards to tricksters, I, for one, do not think it incompatible to think of 'trickster' and 'respect' in the same sentence. That was part of my post a couple months ago regarding Imtherian tricksters specifically, but also a more global view. Yes, there are tricksters who are complete outlaws and deserve to be lynched. But there are far more who will be annoying, but still considered a necessary and even important part of the community. And the trickster gods are often good companions, too. (In Norse myth, Loki is always hanging around with Odin or Thor--they must have some reason why they want him around.) It is my belief that Orlanth likes Eurmal far more than he is willing to admit. There is some connection between lions and solar culture IMO. GRAY cites a deity (Derdenath?) as a lion-maned deity who is the father of Votank and implied to be in the Arcos valley region (if I remember correctly). I chose Basmal for that reason, too (he of the lightning claws and haloed mane). I think there are lions in the Rockwoods and maybe the Jord mountains and occasionally they may be found in the Arcos valley still. (They were hunted out of existence in Imther, though.) It may be possible that the solar culture views lions as children of the griffin (or gryphon if you prefer). Might be a good myth there on the devolution to lions (or how King Gryphon gets to hell). On the derivation of Khelmal--in origin he was derived from Yelmalio (CoP version) partly because I wanted to explain what happened after his wounding at the Hill of Gold and partly because I didn't like the fact that he had lost his Cloud Clear spell. And then came the assorted myths of the Hill of Gold, etc. The nearness of the ancient elf woods called West Wood probably means that Khelmal in origin was closest to Yelmalio too. Dara Happan invasion gave him an infusion of Antirius and /or Shargash which did not disappear until the Dragonkill War. I don't think there was much Elmal influence. And along that line, I am nearing completion of the Khelmal cult writeup. - There have been several questions about the value of truestone. I think one aspect of truestone has been left out that makes it more valuable than an equivalent spell matrix--a truestone is pure LAW. Truestone crushed the devil (at least in Prax) and prevents him from rising. Though never stated, I would play that truestone has an automatic capability similar to either Storm Bull's or Kyger Litor's ability against Chaos. Chaos simply can't use its normal effects against someone holding a piece of truestone. This capability would raise its value tremendously and would add another reason why Storm Bulls don't want pieces of it taken from the Block. Harald --------------------- From: watson@csd.abdn.ac.uk (Colin Watson) Subject: Re: spirit languages? Message-ID: <199409121408.PAA15250@pelican.csd.abdn.ac.uk> Date: 12 Sep 94 16:08:10 GMT X-RQ-ID: 6169 ______ Martin: > Mental communication does not mean, necessarily, language-less > communication, and certainly does not mean mind-reading (not that > Colin suggested this, I just want to be comprehensive). Sure, mental communication needn't be language-less; but I'm saying, in the case of spirits, it usually is. Many types of spirits don't even have INT so I hardly think they would be capable of using human-like languages. That's why Control-type spells require the caster to form *mental images* of the actions they wish the controlled creature to perform. They don't use language 'cos many creatures wouldn't understand it. I don't think its unreasonable to assume that the communication-link afforded by a binding enchantment uses the same approach. > I'd have a heck of hard time suspending my disbelief to the point where a > character could order a bound spirit to reveal its true name and > abilities without the use of language. IT'S MAGIC for cryin'-out-loud. The character does NOT explicitly say "Hey Mr. salamander, tell me your stats"; the salamander does NOT explicitly reply "I'm 3 cubic meters big; my POW is 12; my STR is 17 etc...". The exchange is implicit. The character gets an intuitive feel of what the salamander is like. (Which may be expressed by the GM to the player in terms of game statistics). Anyway, the control-spell descriptions say that mental images are used to "command" the target; and the summoning rules say that control spells can be used to interrogate spirits: Hence I deduce that spirits can effectively be interrogated using mental images... > As for random generation tables: don't you know who and what every spirit > in your world is? 'course I do. :-) The point I was making is: if you say bound spirits speak different languages then you are also implying that summoned spirits will speak different languages. Summoned spirits are randomly determined (unless a truename is used) so any poor sap who has the guts to cast a Summon(X) spell would, more often than not, end up with a creature he couldn't "talk" to. Now, there are ways around this (maybe spirits can speak *all* languages; or maybe only spirits which understand your language will respond to the summons) but I think its simpler just to assume that language isn't a factor in the summons/binding process. The communication required is at a sub-linguistic level. Of course, intelligent spirits might be able to use language; and if you can speak the same language you can have high-falutin' discussions with them. But I don't think language is required to get a bound spirit to perform the basic functions which binding-enchantments/control-spells allow. > >Control-type spells allow you to get such information (see > >Summoning rules) and my assumption is that a bound spirit is, > >while bound, effectively Controlled in the same way. > ^^^^^ ^^^^^ [ my emphasis - CW] > This is directly contrary to the rules, which note a rather large > difference between bound+controlled spirits and merely bound > spirits (you can make the former come back). That's why I said "while bound". You can make a bound spirit do as much as you like without needing a control spell as long as you don't release it from the binding. The way I read it, a control spell is only required if you want to release a spirit, get it to perform an act, and then command it back into the binding. I don't think you need to release a bound spirit in order to interrogate it; therefore I don't think you need a control spell. >A commanded spirit > answers one question per casting of the spell (MB, page 54). Yes, this is clearly the case for summoned creatures which have not been bound. It is not clear (to me) whether a control spell is required to question a bound spirit. I admit that my assumption that Binding gives as much control as a control-spell (while the creature remains bound) is speculative. ___ CW. --------------------- From: loren@hops.wharton.upenn.edu (Loren Miller) Subject: Pelandan culture dead ? Not in my book Message-ID: <9409121436.AA06741@Sun.COM> Date: 12 Sep 94 06:37:19 GMT X-RQ-ID: 6170 alex@dcs.gla.ac.uk (Alex Ferguson) replies to Joerg replying to him: > > > Pelandan culture is pretty much extinct, so the Dara Happan version is > > > the Official Line. (I think Greg (and Nick) only mentioned the Pelandan > > > "dating" when we squeezed it out of him afterwards.) > > > Dara Happan culture has been thoroughly Lunarized, so what the Emperor > > says is true (not only just). > > Begging the question. The Pelandans had already gone by the time the Lunars > got there, so they hardly get to pick and choose between the versions on an > equal basis. Ahem. The Pelandans are not gone. They are still around, serving as a peasant underclass in Carmania proper. Most of their old secret powers may be gone, and if they ever held the secrets of writing their own characters they have lost them by now, but there are plenty of ethnically pure Pelandans running around in Bindle and Worion and Jhor, even in Spol. Too many, if you ask the Carmanian overlords (who by now are quite a bit more Pelandan in blood and culture than they are Loskalmi, but don't tell them I said so or they'd be on me faster than you could shout "Look out behind ecch!"). There's even still a grain goddess or whatever called Pela and I bet that her cult holds some secrets from the old days if you care to ferret them out. I already looked, so don't expect to find any rich treasures in her old temples. Adrad Vilalhri Tax Adjustor at Large in the Western Reaches -- Loren Miller I can tell by your shoes that you are a lover of liberty --------------------- From: ROBERTSON@delphi.intel.com (Roderick Robertson) Subject: Re: RuneQuest Daily, Sun, 11 Sep 1994, part 1 Message-ID: Date: 12 Sep 94 16:30:00 GMT X-RQ-ID: 6171 Martin writes about Gloranthan Greetings: (Much good stuff deleted) Just to drum up "contestants" for RQCON II, there will be a "Gloranthan Introductions" event, probably in conjunction with the Gloranthan Costumery. The idea is to introduce someone in the manner of the Gloranthan Culture of your choice. So a Lunar Bureaucrat's greeting might be something along the lines of: "Minister of Enlightenment Jerdacious, may I present the third under-secretary to the Minister of Religious Purity, Loquacious Silbericus." Such introductions should be less than a minute in length. At this point, I plan to pair up an introducer and a costumer, unless one person wants to do his own intro. Some comments about the origin of the costume (in character, of course) are appropriate. >The goodbye of the Praxians is "Waha be with you." It is NOT >"Happy trails to you, until we meet again. Happy trails to you, >keep smiling until then." Of course not, that is the Pentan goodbye! Hope you enjoy this, and will help me flesh it out. --Martin --------------------- From: David@snail.demon.co.uk (David Scott) Subject: Gloranthan Mythology Message-ID: Date: 12 Sep 94 17:17:09 GMT X-RQ-ID: 6172 A few days late I know - Peter Metcalfe replies to David Hall: >>How can any of this waffle help me GM or play the damn game? > >It's just one aspect of the Gloranthan hobby. If Greg didn't want the meanings >of the GRAY and other misleading texts to be debated over by Pedants then he >would have made the facts clear... Yeah, Yeah, Yeah. Perhaps GRAY was just meant to be some game background or my personal theory is that Greg is out there reading all of this nonsense and laughing - what a great joke. I don't think that any of GRAY would really matter in a game - anybody out there running a game set in Dara Happa at the time of GRAY? Is the Glorantha Hobby really now extending into the realms of meaningless waffle, does the GRAY debate contribute anything to Roleplaying, or do refs run games based around groups of Godlearners exploring the cosmos? >>Whether this is true or not doesn't really >>matter: what matters is what they believe. > >So if I believe that Yelmalio didn't really loses his fire powers at the hills >of Gold, I can use Fireblade? To me this is simplistic. If any of my players said the above, they'd definately be labled as dangerous heretic. I may be wrong but arn't most religons about belief. As part of their initiation, I'm sure most worshoppers would directly experience the suffering that Yelmalio felt on the Hill of Gold. Just because you can say I don't believe it, most wouldn't as they KNOW and FELT what really happened. Using fireblade doesn't even come into it - it would be considered sacrilige to even think about using it (unless you enjoy minimaxing). For the last few months, I have been skipping through most of the digest, for some reason the content has been becoming more waffly (?). Perhaps it's time to give the digest some direction, like a monthly or biweekly theme to explore some aspects of RQ/Glorantha and then onto something new. Further discussions could be taken offline and then compiled for a monthy digest. I'm not suggesting a decrease in volume, only an increase in quality. Let the flaming begin!! David David@Snail.Demon.co.uk --------------------- From: jonas.schiott@vinga.hum.gu.se (Jonas Schiott) Subject: This and That and Truestone Message-ID: <9409121636.AA23119@vinga.hum.gu.se> Date: 12 Sep 94 20:36:29 GMT X-RQ-ID: 6173 Me and Alex: >> But as I also mentioned in an earlier posting, Sandy has >> stated for the record (or at least for the daily) that the assigning of >> Infinity versus doubled runes is _not_ done in any orderly fashion. > >I missed both of you saying this. I thought Sandy cleaved to the Original >Source/Non-Original Source distinction? Well, he did and he didn't. I think I can dig up his original text for you from my hard disk. Someone: >I have a question about Blank Truestone. > >A priest who cast all his rune spells into the trunestone >(A) cannot regain them and he must resacrifice to the spell. > or >(B) can regain them when he pray in his temple as usual. > >which is true? (B). Putting spells into a truestone counts as a normal casting. Come to think of it, you should probably be able to recharge it that way too, as an alternative to the tedious "leave it on the altar for (used spell points) days" procedure. Just me, wondering aloud: A while ago, Henk wondered if anyone had any submissions for the Digest. Well, I sent one in a while ago, but neither that nor any of my other attempts to reach him (via various e-mail addresses) have elicited any sort of response. Hopefully he'll read this, anyway. ( Jonas Schiott ) ( Institutionen for Ide- och lardomshistoria ) ( Goteborgs Universitet ) --------------------- From: DCOWLING@UTMEM1.UTMEM.EDU Subject: Sartar stuff Message-ID: <01HH0YHNGRBM8Y4ZK4@UTMEM1.UTMEM.EDU> Date: 12 Sep 94 07:26:57 GMT X-RQ-ID: 6174 Ok, I wrote a somewhat typical broo hunt awhile back, and had it placed(starting) just north of Jonstown. How often do broo get to within half to one and a half days of Jonstown? What are the local Storm Bull Forces like, if any? What kind of Chalana Arroy and Humakt temples are in Jonstown, and who are the personalities associated with them? On another note, are there any files out there about the six Stones and Alebard's heroquests? Thanks, David Cowling dcowling@utmem1.utmem.edu