From: RuneQuest-Request@Glorantha.Holland.Sun.COM (RQ Digest Maintainer) To: RuneQuest@Glorantha.Holland.Sun.COM (Daily automated RQ-Digest) Reply-To: RuneQuest@Glorantha.Holland.Sun.COM (RuneQuest Daily) Subject: RuneQuest Daily, Wed, 21 Sep 1994, part 4 Sender: Henk.Langeveld@Holland.Sun.COM Content-Return: Prohibited Precedence: junk --------------------- From: CHEN190@csc.canterbury.ac.nz (Peter Metcalfe, CAPE Canty) Subject: Really Heavy (metal) Gloranthan stuff.. Message-ID: <01HHCMJ88XK28WW04F@csc.canterbury.ac.nz> Date: 21 Sep 94 09:58:08 GMT X-RQ-ID: 6283 The following is something I penned a year ago, while trying to develop an alchemy system that was more like a magical system than the bland Blade venom 20 found in RQII ie trying to develop alchemy schools and such like. Eventually I had to figure out how the world actually worked and this is what came out. Some of it is without a doubt erroneous but comments are welcome. --Peter Metcalfe =============================================================== This document has a chequered history. It was prepared by Ifmenel of Valsburg as part of a series of essays for his students. His work was interrupted by the Loskalmi revolt against the God-Learners. In order to survive, he recanted his ways and turned his work to the Ecclesiarchal Authorities. Due to the moderate nature of his work, it was decided that the essays could be released in a censored form. In most cases, the materials were completely rewritten. In some cases the documents were merely annotated by the censor. This censor appears to have been a long-standing rival of Ifmenel and (ab)used his position to insert critical comments in the manuscript. A copy of this manuscript along with other examples of his work has come into my hands. I have translated this document into New Pelorian from the Western Script. In concordance with our lord Irrippi Ontor's proclaimations on this practice, I have rendered all idioms and unusual phrases into the New Pelorian script literally and have appended a gloss for the difficult concepts found in this owrk. So attested on this day fire/truth/sea wane 7/23. Sir Hieronymus of Worion On the Origin of Metals. It was once believed that each metal was a manifestation of an element on the mundane plane. This had to be revised when nine metals could be named by the common scribe and only five elements were known to exist by the most learned and wise [Ifmenel does not mention his own work here where he attemped to revive *naive multiplication* and construct para-elements. It sank like a stone - censor]. Fruitless elucidation produced such wild notions as each metal was a manifestation of a rune [making silver the metal of love for some arcane reason as Ifmenel does - censor]. The solution to this conumdrum in recognizing that there are only five basic metals. These are Lead (who corresponds to *Nakala*), Gold (likewise for *Ehilm*), Copper (*Ga*), Quicksilver (*Sramak*) and Bronze (*Worlath*). All other metals are either derivatives or combinations of these metals. To comprehend what is meant by a derivative metal, we need only look at the transformation of Lorian. Lorian is the Sky River that invaded the Heavens and turned all the skies from gold to blue. Indeed when we look at Tin which is the metal of the Heavens, we see that its colour is blue rather than yellow, its fiery connotations would suggest. But Gold is yellow and ancient accounts of the sky dome state it was gold. Can Gold be transformed by the action of Water to Tin? To find the truth of the matter, I purchased some gold artifacts from a merchant from *Ehilmwal* and placed them in a barrel of water. The barrel was then placed in a dark cellar and left to stand for a year. At the end of the year, the barrel was opened and the articles had acquired a fine silvery sheen. Magical analysis showed that this residue was in fact tin. I believe sunlight would be sufficient to halt this reaction but whether it can be reversed I have no idea. My guess is that since Lorian remains in heaven to this day, the action is irreversible with mundane means. Silver is another derivative of an element. According to Bakis's renowed book, Here be Dragons [Warning: Ifmenel, several years after the writing of this document, confessed to writng Bakis's "renowned book". He had talked to Bakis about his travels to the *Dragon Empire*. Bakis about the varied people who lived in their lands and said he planned to write a book about it. However Bakis died before he could organize his work and so Ifmenel hit upon the idea of "including" several "observations" of Theyalan barbarians in Bakis's papers to validate his own work. The source of these observations were songs Ifmenel had himself heard in younger days but did not transcribe to paper at the time. As a result they are likely to be *prone to manifest error* -censor] the Theyalans say when Worlath killed Ehilm, his corpse was but silver. This suggests that it is formed by the action of air upon gold. Despite this, I had difficulty replicating this feat on a mundane scale (presumably this is due to the dilute nature of air). It wasn't until recently that after a dream, I stood a golden javelin into the crest of a hill and forbade any to approach it until the year (and several thunderstorms) were up. When I retrieved the Javelin, it had the appearance of silver. After melting it down, I discovered I had made electrum. [His inability to distinguish between the two shows the long term effects of consuming Elvish Liquors of which Ifmenel was a great connoisseur - censor] A conundrum that follows is the relative abundance of silver compared to gold. The truth is [in reality an educated guess - censor] of the *teological* gold that was deposited during the Ice Age, most were corroded by air during that long time. Another riddle posed by this theory is that it explains why Worlanth is connected to silver but raises the question why Ehilm is not? My theory is that Ehilm was killed by Worlath and seperated from his physical body of which a portion had turned to silver. When he was raised at the Dawn, it was a new body formed from his spirit. As for the relationship of Uleria with... [Ifmenel then goes onto to cite a legend about Uleria and her connection with this metal. It is from Bakis's "Theyalan observations" and also is unclean and fit only for the recreational consumption of degenerates and broos...- censor] The Transformation of Lorian is joined by other basic types of alchemical actions such as making of *Lodril's metal*. Lodril's metal is a rare metal, found so far on the surface world only around the *Greylands*. The Greylanders tell of how their Ancestral Dehore defeated Lodril and imprisoned him beneath the earth. From this it is easy to theorize that Lodril's metal is made by a strong action of darkness on gold. I have not yet managed to duplicate this since the reaction is too slow when using ordinary shadow. Something stronger is needed such as powerful darkness magic is needed as a result. Lodril's metal is rare due to the fact that at the places where it might be found, the heat is strong enough to meld it with copper to form brass. Since brass has more useful qualities, the rarity of Lodril's metal is seldom missed by all. The metal Iron was made by the Sons of Urtiam, I believe, from transmuting the raw metal copper. {I believe the sentence here is incomplete due to the sentence structure in the original. The cause of this is most probably censorship. Ifmenel would have been describing by what means it may have been accomplished here which would have been anathema to the authorites - Hiero} This can been seen where untempered Iron which has not been cared for properly and subjected to the ravages of the *invisible (erased word)* shows up with a reddish coating [otherwise known as rust - censor] which I believe is caused by Iron being unstable (it being only a made metal after all) and reverting to copper. Since the Copper was the mother of Iron it can be mixed with Iron, and so the decay of Iron forms a copper-iron alloy which is useless to everyone. [I am told that the Dwarves of Nida dump their iron waste into the Nidan River so as to render it undrinkable by the trolls and elves. - censor] One metal that is rumoured to exist but has not been found in appreciable qualities for its properties to be ascertained is Han-metal. This is formed by heating lead for over a prolonged time in a bright fire representing Ehilm scorching hell at Hanroo Field [This legend comes courtesy of Bakis's "Theyalan Observations" - censor]. I have not managed to perform this deed as the problems of such an operation are immense indeed [Changes in public opinion regarding *heretical* experimentation was the main reason: sabotage was becoming common - censor]. Due to the location of the incident, significant portions have not been found on the surface world. [Of course if the legend itself comes from Bakis, there is a real chance that it might not be true and thus no "Han-metal" - censor] The second source of secondary metals is that of mixing two metals together. The most famous of these is Bronze which is mixed copper and tin and is also the birth metal of *Worlath*. Now some critics have stated that this should surely be copper and gold if I am right [Including yours truely - censor]. The reality of this when Lorian conquered the Heavens, he changed the cosmos. {Another censored passage. Ifmenel would have described how the cosmos was changed rather than be succint. We can suspect that important God Learner concepts would have been necessary for explanation making its deltion a foregone conclusion - Heiro} Another metal in this class is the aforementioned Brass. Many more examples exist and will be discussed in my next essay. [The next essay however deals on a completely different topic. Ifmenel said he did this because some of the obvious examples of this type (ie fool's gold) did not have any "story" associated with them -censor] {The censor is probably applying Zzaburs theory and pratcice of truth here. The original documents are numbered and there is a gap between this one and the next which the censor failed to recognize. In actual fact, we know that Loskalm after the expulsion of the God Learners suffered a period of inequitable taxation and resorted to a barter system for a period of years. Little wonder that the document was censored - Hiero} Glossary of Difficult Words *Ancestral Dehore*: Presumably Argan Argar is referred to here. For a westerner to refer to a troll diety as a dehore is a common (if inaccurate practice) since they usually fear trolls and Dehore is the God of Fear in their mythology, ergo troll gods are dehores. *Dragon Empire*: Empire of the Wyrm Friends. *Ehilm*; Yelm. Lord Light is apparently meant. *Ehilmwal*: Literally "Sun City". Presumably he meant one of the Solar Tripolises but Southbank could also be referred to. *Elvish Liquors*: The Troll Berserks after celebrating a victory over elves place their corpses along with sevral tree trunks in a sealed lead cauldron which is then placed in a fire. After a period of time, the seal is broken and the resulting liquor from the heating is called an elvish liquor . Consuming too much of this makes humans go blind which is what was being referred to. *Fool's Gold*: An trick to double the amount of gold by mixing it with an unknown metal. It can easily be detected. *Heretical*: God Learner. *Ga*: Empress Earth. *Greylands*: A Troll civilization south of Dragon Pass. They were implacable enemies of King Palangio and aided Arkat. *Invisible (erased word)*: Time. The erased word is Kajabor and this was a God Learner Joke. The word has been erased by our critic for its blasphemous connotations unintentionally giving it new impetus... *Lodril's metal*: Ifmenel is almost certainly not referring to Aluminium here. *Naive Multiplication*: A Malkioni term referring to the belief that there exists a God for every possible combination of the runes. The error in this lies in the opposing runes such as Harmony/Disorder for which it is impossible to concieve a divinity combining such attributes (lawful ones at least). Life/Death is a special case but cannot be discussed here for lack of space. *Nakala*: Dame Darkness. *Prone to Manifest Error*: This dismissal of Ifmenel's recollections is actually grounded in Western tradition. The Western love for documented literature for it is said that when the Silence robbed them of speech and hearing, only the written word kept the hope alive. Ifmenel would have been trying to fight this prejudice when he inserted his work. Of course the veracity of his recollections is unknown as Theyalan Literature is seldom found in civilised lands. *Sons of Urtiam*: Dwarves. This is one of an ancient western family of phrases (ie sons of Ehilm: Pelorians, Sons of Worlath: Theyalans) which dates from the time when their own geneology could be easily determined. With the adoption of the teachings of Hrestol and the resulting increase in local ancestors (ie excerable Hsunchen) this phrase become somewhat old fashioned. *Sramak*: Sir Sea. *Teological*: Earthly. Ifmenel was fnd of using verbose words. *Urtiam*: Mostal *Worlath*: Orlanth. He is confused here with King Storm. --------------------- From: Argrath@aol.com Subject: Aldryami; Pol Joni; Warhamster Message-ID: <9409201835.tn261715@aol.com> Date: 20 Sep 94 22:35:27 GMT X-RQ-ID: 6299 This is the second time I've sent this, the first being the 18th. If by some quirk of the ether, they both arrive, please ignore the other one. I've made some changes to this one. The Blue Wizard says: >I, the Blue Wizard, have investigated the speech of the Aldryami >and have concluded it is much more than sounds alone. I agree with this. >It has been well known that Aldryami have some wierd touchsense I disagree that it is well-known. Some specialists in Aldryami culture, who are spookily far from normal human ways of thought, might know about it, but they wouldn't even try to explain it to outsiders. >However, I feel that the elves also have some capacity to sense >the emotion in the speech. Only when they are touching the person talking, and that is the reason why they like to touch while talking. They can also pick up some emotion when touching something (like a tree) that the speaker is touching, or even through the network of trees, but the message becomes progressively weaker. >The warriors of Fonrit discovered this truth in the Eight Season >Wars and so I am told make use of Aldryami in their war crys as >a means to damage the mind of their opponents. Don't believe everything you're told ;-. >As for the deciphering of the Aldryami tongue, I can only >conclude that as well as accents, the elves of different woods >have a preference for using particular woods. I didn't know they _played_ golf. >If people are willing, I will describe the writing of the >Aldryami in a future post. In a discussion between various folks (Ken Rolston, Mike Dawson, Peter Michaels and maybe some other AOL-ers), we came up with special trees or other plants which, in the way they are grown, contain information. Of course, to access this information requires use of the Aldryami touch sense. Small plants could be the equivalent of pamphlets or broadsides, while entire trees might be needed to express the information contained (by humans) in books. Glorantha being a Lamarckian kind of place, the seeds of these plants contain some of the information contained in the parent plant. Thus, it is possible to disseminate information through carrying seeds. Joerg asks: >(BTW: Are there Morokanth Storm Bulls? Fer sure. 4%, according to CoP. >What gear do they use, and do they mix with other Storm Bulls? I'm not sure they'd have any special gear, though the ones with thumbs would use swords and the others might carry swords for the symbolism. They probably wouldn't mix with other SBs, because the cultural prejudice runs higher than the religious sympathy; for that matter, there's probably a good bit of distrust between human SBs of different tribes. >You have the Newtlings below, but not the Baboons. In NG they >have one clans counter and one shaman. Assuming approximately >20% fighters, their number could be in the 4000 range. Baboons are in the G:CHW tables (Book 3, page 24). There are 10,000 of them. >> Adari 200 [+100 others] >According to Tales 3, the populace of Adari is 300 to 600 humans >_inside the palisade_. The 300 figure I give for Adari is intended to be compatible with ToTRM #3's figure of the minimum (summer, was it?) population. >No mention of oasis folk or farming is made, ... One of the major weaknesses of the Adari write-up, IMHO. There's no way such a city could be stable or enduring without a regular and nearby source of food. It's typical to ignore the downtrodden oasis folk--certainly the nomads treat them as part of the landscape. In any case, the center of the Golden Age civilization of the oasis folk was to the east, in Genert's Garden, not to the south. Even if there weren't any oasis folk in Adari at the dawn, nomads would have driven them there forcibly to provide their services (tanning, wood-working, farming). Nomads sacking the city and trolls settling nearby wouldn't deter oasis folk: they're survivors. Re: Warhamster As a reformed wargamer, I have to comment on these rules (which appeared in Tales #12). In general, I liked them, even though I don't usually use miniatures and these rules are clearly mini-based. But I have a problem with these rules: Cf (Combat factor) is based on combat skills and maximum damage, with no factor for tactics, while Df (defense factor) is based on chest armor and hit points, with up to a 1 or 2 point add for heavy armor elsewhere (the example gives a +1 for a hoplite shield). If this were realistic, then Vercingetorix's Gauls would have defeated Julius Caesar's legions and Caradoc's British alliance would have defeated Claudius' legions. The Celts in both those cases were superior warriors to the Roman legionaries. They fought, raided, and practiced with weapons more than the Romans did. They used bigger weapons than the Roman gladius. The Celts' armor was usually inferior, but that's not enough to explain why the number of times that Celts beat Romans in the field is rather smaller than the number of Roman victories. Boudicca beat one legion and got wiped out by another (1-1). Caradoc's record was (0-1) in major battles, though he used guerrilla warfare very effectively. The Gauls scared Caesar's legions a few times, but never destroyed any. In fact, it was rare for the "barbarians" to beat up on Romans. It was a great psychological shock to the Romans when 3 legions got ambushed travelling through heavy forest in Germany and were wiped out. From Republican times through the early centuries of the Empire, legions rarely lost, and never lost to equal numbers of Celts or Germans except the afore-mentioned ambush in the woods. The Romans obviously won because their tactics gave them an advantage over the heroic mobs they faced. The same tactical realities apply, IMHO, to Gloranthans. The Sun Domers of Prax survived the solitude of testing not because their co- religionists in the tribes declined to attack them (don't Waha cultists raid other Waha cultists?), but because they beat the nomads every time through their hoplite tactics, use of terrain features, and excellent earth works. The upshot is that Cf should be based on either the factors listed OR a tactical fudge factor, whichever is higher. Obviously, the same tactics that work well in open battle don't work well in guerrilla warfare, so the fudge factor depends on the size of the engagement, as well. On a related note, I note that the rules provide a modifier to Cf for being uphill or downhill, but not for any other terrain features. I would add: Condition Modifier ----------------------------------- -------- Enemy is behind short wall or in trench -1 Attacker has to climb ladders to attack -3 Cavalry attacking emplaced infantry -3* Enemy is across a shallow stream -1 Enemy is across a deep stream -2 Enemy is guarding a ford or bridge -3 (others as the situation warrants) * Rent "The Magnificent Seven" if you don't believe me. Any wall a defender can get completely behind subtracts 3 from Missile Rating. Note also that some troops (like Roman legions) carried one-use missile weapons. The Romans' javelins were highly useful in breaking up charges, especially by cavalry or chariots. Any chance of a Warhamster demonstration at RQ Con 2? --Martin ---------------------