From: RuneQuest-Request@Glorantha.Holland.Sun.COM (RQ Digest Maintainer)
To: RuneQuest@Glorantha.Holland.Sun.COM (Daily automated RQ-Digest)
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Subject: RuneQuest Daily, Sat, 01 Oct 1994, part 1
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X-RQ-ID: Intro
This is the RuneQuest Daily Bulletin, a mailing list on
the subjects of Avalon Hill's RPG and Greg Stafford's
world of Glorantha. It is sent out once per day in digest
format.
More details on the RuneQuest Daily and Digest can be found
after the last message in this digest.
X-RQ-ID: index
6419: alex = (Alex Ferguson)
- Westerners, Westerners, everywhere...
6420: niwe = (Nils Weinander)
- Secrets once more & some more
6421: alex = (Alex Ferguson)
- Sandian Stuff.
6422: alex = (Alex Ferguson)
- Other, non-Sandian Stuff.
6423: watson = (Colin Watson)
- Body, spirit; spirit, body - jus'likethat
6424: SMITHH = (Harald Smith 617 724-9843)
- rhigos; eldarad
6425: DevinC = DevinC@aol.com
- Re:Women Templars, Eldarad, Sartarite Fauna
6426: gerakkag = gerakkag@imap1.asu.edu
- Non-Divine Ressurrection
6427: joe = (Joerg Baumgartner)
- Sandy agrees on Pamalt and others
6428: 100102.3001 = (Peter J. Whitelaw)
- Lord Vega Goldbreath?
---------------------
From: alex@dcs.gla.ac.uk (Alex Ferguson)
Subject: Westerners, Westerners, everywhere...
Message-ID: <9409300916.AA17692@hawaii.dcs.gla.ac.uk>
Date: 30 Sep 94 09:16:39 GMT
X-RQ-ID: 6419
de MOB:
> I think Martin has hit the nail right on the head when he suggests the
> Porthomekans are descendants of Westerners.
Beejeezis. At the last count, I made it that Maniria had the Wenelian
Rokari, the Trader Princes, the Aeolians, and now this lot stomping around
in it. Aren't we about to hit Westerner Critical Mass, or something
equally nasty?
> The Capratis are typified as hard-headed straight talkers, with little
> interest in spiritual affairs and some decidedly liberal attitudes for
> Rokari.
> Du Tumerines are characteristically arrogant and overbearing, but
> sincerely religious. Their brand of Rokarism has an evangelistic
> flavour which the more worldly Capratis find somewhat
I'm glad to see I was playing my HtWw1 character correctly; I wonder
what Steve Hatherley's excuse was? ;-) (Details suppressed by the
Inquisition Subcommittee for Scenario Reusability.)
> an ex-Aolian
The only good kind, as far as I'm concerned. ;-) (Noises off, not
unlike muffled blows.)
Alex.
---------------------
From: niwe@ppvku.ericsson.se (Nils Weinander)
Subject: Secrets once more & some more
Message-ID: <9409300957.AA08331@ppvku.ericsson.se>
Date: 30 Sep 94 11:57:21 GMT
X-RQ-ID: 6420
Nils Weinander writing
I have a theory about the GL secret: Greg and Sandy really don't know
what it is, but by making an aura of secrecy and a deep mystery around
the subject, it becomes interesting to speculate about. When enough
people grope around for ideas, someone ought to come up with an
explanation that makes enough sense to be coopted into the official
line. :-)
_____
Martin writes about languages:
> There may be some beings around who speak
> Dorastan (hint: see Codex #1), which is more or less mutually
> intelligible with Bilini--like Swedish and Norwegian are reputed
> to be (I bet I hear from some Swedes or Norwegians on that one).
Since you say so... swedish, danish and norwegian are largely mutually
intelligible. For me, being swedish, spoken norwegian and written danish
are very easy. The other way round is a bit tougher, but still no problem.
To go a bit deeper: there are two groups of scandinavian languages: the
western, including norwegian, icelandic and faroeic and the eastern,
including swedish and danish. So swedish and danish are really very close,
but the pronounciation is rather different. However, in writing the
similarities are many. Norway was ruled by danish kings for some time, so
there has been some danish influence on the norwegian language.
However, this has nothing at all to do with Glorantha, so I better stop here.
_____
Exigers and Promalti:
Thanks for the info.
Sandy:
> The Promalti are entities composed of living fire. Kind of
> like the Dehore.
So, are they minions of Lodril?
_____
/Nils W
---------------------
From: alex@dcs.gla.ac.uk (Alex Ferguson)
Subject: Sandian Stuff.
Message-ID: <9409301016.AA24885@seram.dcs.gla.ac.uk>
Date: 30 Sep 94 10:16:14 GMT
X-RQ-ID: 6421
Sandy deduces from my aghast statement:
> >Bashed neeps are mashed turnip, of course. A traditional
> >accompaniment to haggis
that:
> The intent, presumably, to make the haggis look good by
> comparison? Kidding here.
Makes Perfect Sense to me. Mind you, it doesn't work.
> I now openly confess to liking mashed
> turnips, at least when mixed with potatoes in the Welsh fashion.
Bashed neeps are neat turnip, alas, though mashed potatoes are traditionally
served too. I should also mention the other, absolutely _key_ ingredient
of a successful Burns' Supper: get too pissed to notice how appalling the
food is.
> Teleos is not just a color-coded EU, if only because the children of
> the various tribes only rarely happen to be the correct color.
We thought of that one; why do you think said EU recently instituted
(admittedly fairly notional) common citizenship? (Amounting to roughly
that all the passports are the same naff colour.) There aren't yet too
many cases of one nationality being born to another, but then, look at the
Republic of Ireland's football (that's "soccer" to you USAns) team.
> There's simply no point in
> killing 'em, but at least they can hate 'em.
Sounds much like European history of the last 50 years.
> >I think I got the impression from someplace that there are
> >more humans than uz in the [Kithori] tribe
> I got this impression, too, but now I'm not sure where. Maybe
> it's just because the tribe is about 50-50 troll/human, but most of
> the trolls are just trollkin scum (who don't count).
That's a point. Not only do they not count, they only won't be counted,
by the typical visitor who shows during the day when the kinlets aren't
let out.
> >I can't think why there should be two distinct lots of
> >darkness-worshipping humans in Heortland, most of whose
> >residents are "otherwise accounted for".
> Relics from the Only Old One's regime?
Well, yeah, but why would they be separate? What's the nature/location/
relationship with first group of this alleged second lot? How do said
second lot fit in with the Volsaxi, and/or the Hendriki? Someone with
the merest modicum of an excuse for wanting to know should go interrogate
Greg as to what he had in mind with the Black Arkat writeup, if we've
squeezed all we can out of Sandy on the subject.
> Cities are _exactly_ the same in Genertela and Pamaltela. It's just
> that Genertelans think they are good, and Pamaltelans think they are
> bad.
Wotta stitch-up. Firstly, I think you're echoing the Doraddi view here,
not the "Pamaltelan" view (if there were such a thing). And in the second
place, I don't believe that a populous have hold a generally negative view
about their lifestyle without it becoming self-fulfilling.
> In my own campaign, the PCs got along much better in Fonrit
> than they did in Jolar. [...]
> The openness and generosity of the Doraddi confused and
> frightened them.
I've _read_ some of Sandy's scenarios: I someone was open and friendly to
me in one of his games, I`d run, not walk, screaming from the room. ;-)
> I think it's safe to say that "in Prax", there are converts
> to Yelmalio from among the plains tribes, and if you visited Pavis,
> the percentages of such converts might be reasonably high, as high as
> CoP shows. Ditto for Orlanth, Humakt, & co. Just like you can find
> plenty of Christians among the Japanese in big cities.
I think I more-or-less agree with this. However, spirit cults being
endemic in Prax, I'm sure that many "foreign" gods may be worshipped
in this (Sandy would prolly say "false") mode, where they've been
exposed to 'em. And elsewhere, there are doubtless many native spirits
which a passing God Learner might reckon were "aspects" of some greater
deity.
Alex.
---------------------
From: alex@dcs.gla.ac.uk (Alex Ferguson)
Subject: Other, non-Sandian Stuff.
Message-ID: <9409301056.AA24983@seram.dcs.gla.ac.uk>
Date: 30 Sep 94 10:56:57 GMT
X-RQ-ID: 6422
Michelle waxes Yelornan again:
> 2) I was thinking that my Yelornans should probably become
> Yelmalian initiates before they became Templars. I ask
> because the six Yelmalians that I am working with are all
> bucking to become Templars.
I'd agreed except (I already did and) that for outlanders, as I presume
said Yelornans are, and perhaps even for native women, you can't become
a Yelmalio initiate _until_ you're accepted for the Templars. In case
I'm obfusacting the issue here, I don't mean any Catch 22 situation, just
that the two would happen essentially simultaneously. (Not true of male
natives, of course, who can cool their heels in the militia for as long
as they like, if not longer.)
David Cheng, and some other chaps, post(s) various semi-convincing reasons
for posting the daily to a newsgroup:
[...]
But none for posting to _that_ newsgroup. I don't understand the
Technologically challenged people who download whole newsgroups onto their
local machine, and then indulge in post hoc bitching about getting stuff
they didn't want, any more than I do those people who reallyreallyreally
want RQ by news, but in the spirit of humouring all factions, why not
cross-post to a RQ and/or Daily-specific newsgroup? There should be no
creation problems, since we can either a) create an alt group, or b)
stitch up the creation vote in advance by soliciting the necessary support
here in advance.
Martin C. notices when the Glasgow netfeed was down:
> And hey, can we talk about Gloranthan issues? Sunday's and
> Monday's Dailies have been right thin on substance.
Nuff said. ;-) On the other hand, Don't Complain About it, Just Do It,
say I. (Martin at least Does It As Well, so that's not quite so bad...)
Dave Cordes:
> Question: Since Eurmal is the trickster and according to everything I've
> read his followers are not bound to any laws. Nor are they protected by any
> laws. Is Eurmal then bound by the great comprimise?
'Fraid so. After all, he was one of the people instrumental in bringing it
about. On the bright side, he can still make crass and/or naff jokes about
it. I say, I say, I say, how many Greater Gods does it take to change a
lightbulb?
Nick analogises:
> This is like the way we
> think all Storm Bulls worship the Block 'cos we've seen the ones who live
> near to it. I'm pretty sure that as you trek westwards around the Barbarian
> Belt, this particular myth dies out and is replaced by more important local
> variations on the same theme.
Baaaaad Nick. You mean "Uroxi", don't you? Go into the corner and say
six "Hail Greg"s, and a couple of "Blessed Sandy"s for good measure.
Nick's doubleplusungoodwise-phrased point is obviously Correct for extreme
cases like Ralios, at least. But what about, say, Sartar? Are there
any other major Urox sites or myths there, or do they have essentially the
Praxian ones (Storm Walk mountain, the Block), with a different spin?
Alex.
---------------------
From: watson@csd.abdn.ac.uk (Colin Watson)
Subject: Body, spirit; spirit, body - jus'likethat
Message-ID: <199409301117.MAA05961@pelican.csd.abdn.ac.uk>
Date: 30 Sep 94 13:17:42 GMT
X-RQ-ID: 6423
___________
Dave Cordes suggests how a Shaman might manage a resurrection but then
discovers:
> quote from the Magic Book page 28: "Only Divine
> Magic can bring back an adventurer from the dead, a capability which greatly
> encourages such characters to learn or convert to that approach to magic".
>
> Why???? What is the difference between what I detailed here and the
> resurrection spell?
Well, I think the Shaman-method falls down at point 9:
> 9. Force the spirit back into the body, thus bringing the person back to
> life.
I wouldn't assume that simply combining a spirit with a body is going
to result in a living being. Quite the opposite in fact. There are several
enchantments available to Shamans and Sorcerers involving spirit-corpse
combinations and they always result in some form of undeath. Not Life.
If it was as simple as you make out then the recently-departed spirit
might as well just hang around for a while to see if it's body gets
healed and, if so, just hop right back into it of its own accord.
But it doesn't work like that.
Most spirits can't (don't?) posess corpses. (Those that can (do?) are
called Ghouls.) So you would *at least* require some form of enchantment on
the body to get the spirit to stick there. Even then, if you used Bind Ghost
for example, you'd just have a corpse with a Ghost in it; not a living being;
not something that could breathe and move around; nor even prevent its
own body from decay.
Nope, the closest a Shaman gets to resurrection is Create Zombie; and that
does the spirit more harm than good.
The trick with the Resurrection spell is that it restores the natural
"binding enchantment" which allows things to live. Recovering the spirit
is the easy part; it's the putting-the-spirit-back-into-the-body part
which is special.
Now, I wouldn't go as far as the Magic Book in saying that it's *impossible*
for Shamans and Sorcerers to raise the dead; but I would say it's Very Hard.
___
CW.
---------------------
From: SMITHH@A1.MGH.HARVARD.EDU (Harald Smith 617 724-9843)
Subject: rhigos; eldarad
Message-ID: <01HHQ2DWSE74S9MEN2@MR.MGH.HARVARD.EDU>
Date: 30 Sep 94 07:27:00 GMT
X-RQ-ID: 6424
- In regard to the recent discussion of Porthomeka and Rhigos
The introduction of westerners here makes since. While I was thinking
about which westerners came here, I happened to spell Rhigos backwards,
perhaps suggesting that those enigmatic people from Sog's City were
involved.
- Someone asked about the use or placement of Eldarad.
Since I will admit that I actually own this, I came up with 2 uses for it
once upon a time. One, that it could be broken up into bits and fit into
Pavis (though certain pieces like the Immaril would be useless in this
case). A second possibility would be to place it in Garsting since there
is a river and sea nearby, Imperial agents could be explained, the Immaril
could be wandering Balazarings, and Garsting is conveniently a blank land.
Of course, I thought of that before the assorted Dara Happan pieces came
out so this line of thought may be useless at this point.
Harald
---------------------
From: DevinC@aol.com
Subject: Re:Women Templars, Eldarad, Sartarite Fauna
Message-ID: <9409301446.tn30071@aol.com>
Date: 30 Sep 94 18:46:49 GMT
X-RQ-ID: 6425
Devin here:
MOB writes:
"There has been some discussion lately on whether the Sun Domers would let
a female Yelornan join the Templars. The example of the female Light
Lady Vega Goldbreath is often cited. Despite creating her long ago,
David Hall and Nick Brooke have been trying to convince me of late that
Vega is in fact, really a *Light Son* (seen "Priscilla, Queen of the Desert",
anyone?).
Of course, that cannot be true because Light Sons are forbidden to disguise
themselves as women...
(see Yelmalio cult write-up in CoP or SC)
...but then, why have such a weird rule if there wasn't such a problem in
the first place???
Food for thought..."
In my campaign, a player (male...if that matters) wanted to play a female
Yelmalian Sun Dome Templar. I warned him that thsi was highly unusual and
that he would face prejudice and persecution and ridicule at every turn, but
he likes playing fish out of water.
Cori (that's her name) had to fight her way into a unit. She managed to
convince a priest to initiate her into Yelmalio by way of suitable bribes
from her father and favours owed (nuff said?).
It took her quite a long time to be accepted as a templar. Not only did she
have to prove her fighting ability by being not only equal but better than
the males around her, but she was constantly held up to higher scrutiny and
standards of Yelmalian observance (geasa, frex) than the men. She was
shunned, made fun of, and the constant butt of jokes.
Even when a PC Illuminated Yelmalian Acolyte transferred her into his file,
she still had problems.
But through various extremely brave (and risky) acts, she has managed to get
some begrudging respect from the men of the unit, and in an upcoming
scenario, where she saves most of the unit from certaind eath, she will
finally get the respect she craves.
In conclusion, I think it probably is possible in very rare cases for females
to become Templars or higher (like Vega) but it is a road fraught with peril
and hardships, akin to what many real life females experienced in trying to
become policewomen or firewomen or to serve in the armed forces....only
magnified in intensity due to the nature of the Yelmalian values.
Kieth asks:
"Although Eldarad: The Lost City ranks pretty low on the list of supllements
if it is spiced up, it could make an interesting addition to a Glorantha
campaign.
The supplement suggests placing it north west of Peloria as a buffer state
along with the Kingdom of war. This placement would be negate both the
scarcity of items, travel, and most of all the stigma of being a "city
dweller.""
I found Eldarad not entirely objectionable and about on par with the Rubble
in style and quality.
I found that it worked best for me north of Charg off of the river there
(Janube?). I foudnt hat the Ban could explain much of the history of Eldarad.
Frex,
Eldarad was a thriving city state along the Janube river valley before the
Syndics Ban descended. During the Ban, the people left the city (or a plague
came) and reverted to primitive way. As the ban thawed, people began
reappearing. First came an intrepid Etyries trader going down river from the
Lunar Empire. Later, Rathorelan tribes people found an overland route that
had thawed away, but have kept that route secret.
Finally,
Can anyone tell me some examples of normal fauna found in Sartar?
Examples I am mostly looking for are hunted animals and herd beasts. How much
migration from Prax (if any) is there? Does one find Alticamelus herds or
Bison herds wandering around Sartar?
Regards,
Devin
devinc@aol.com
---------------------
From: gerakkag@imap1.asu.edu
Subject: Non-Divine Ressurrection
Message-ID:
Date: 30 Sep 94 06:17:54 GMT
X-RQ-ID: 6426
Regarding Dave Cordes' comments on non-divine resurrection:
I agree that shamans should be able to bring back the dead (but only
after a struggle). For one thing, a lack of resurrection kind of
torpedoes non-humans who don't worship/aren't affiliated with Chalanna
Arroy (what do trolls do? Throw those dead bodies on the trollball
field?).
I usually let PCs/NPcs of the Shaman's tribe, clan, family, etc. chances
to be resurrected -- I visualize part of the shaman's role as helping to
"maintain" the part of the spirit plane in which the tribe's members go
when they die. I.e., if a babboon warrior dies, the shaman can go to the
tribe's "axis" on the spirit plane to find him and bring him back.
This still makes divine magic more powerful -- shaman resurrection is
generally longer (more stats lost), more dangerous, etc. when compared to
the the D.I. or Chalanna Arroy "insta-life."
Just out of curiousity -- how are other people handling resurrection
among peoples where Chalanna Arroy is not generally popular?
---------------------
From: 100102.3001@compuserve.com (Peter J. Whitelaw)
Subject: Lord Vega Goldbreath?
Message-ID: <940930214331_100102.3001_BHJ76-1@CompuServe.COM>
Date: 30 Sep 94 21:43:31 GMT
X-RQ-ID: 6428
Hi all,
MOB says, referring to DH and NB's claim that Vega is not a she but a he,
>Of course, that cannot be true because Light Sons are forbidden to disguise
>themselves as women...
>(see Yelmalio cult write-up in CoP or SC)
>
>...but then, why have such a weird rule if there wasn't such a problem in
>the first place???
Strewth!
>Food for thought...
Especially for Invictus! What does he have to say on the matter? He must have
been fairly gutted on his wedding night.
So, the official line is that they divorced because his geas precluded him from
loving any but Earth cultists...
Oh joy! What a scandal. I sniff a scenario in this.
Thank you.
All the best,
Peter