From: RuneQuest-Request@Glorantha.Holland.Sun.COM (RQ Digest Maintainer) To: RuneQuest@Glorantha.Holland.Sun.COM (Daily automated RQ-Digest) Reply-To: RuneQuest@Glorantha.Holland.Sun.COM (RuneQuest Daily) Subject: RuneQuest Daily, Wed, 05 Oct 1994, part 2 Sender: Henk.Langeveld@Holland.Sun.COM Content-Return: Prohibited Precedence: junk --------------------- From: 100270.337@compuserve.com (Nick Brooke) Subject: Wizards v. Sorcerers Message-ID: <941004192937_100270.337_BHL49-1@CompuServe.COM> Date: 4 Oct 94 19:29:38 GMT X-RQ-ID: 6474 ____ Alex cites Sandy as claiming: > ... most sensible Wizards know that Evil Sorcerors can cast exactly the > same spells as they do. Yeah, if we're taking "spells" from RQ3's limited list. But certainly not if we're talking about the harmonious societal kingdom-enhancing "divine" Wizardry that is the Malkioni speciality. Evil Sorcerers could, of course, embrace Malkion's Law, and through God's Grace come to possess the same powers of blessing and so on that sensible Wizards have. But surely there must be a ethical/moral/religious dimension to what GoG presents simply as "the Worship Invisible God sorcery spell"? ___________ Dave Cordes pleads: > Please don't punish those GMs who want to play a easy world by rigidly > restricting the game system. I'd never dream of doing that: "Less is more" where role-playing rulesets are concerned, IMHO. But what GM is foolish enough to follow all (or any) of the rules against his or her own inclinations? > Let's try to develop game mechanisms that will work within the guide- > lines of the Gloranthan World. I thought Greg's views on the rarity of healing magic in Glorantha (i.e. "There's about 1/10th as much Healing in the world as you'd assume from playing RuneQuest") were well known by now. That is to say, RuneQuest no longer accurately models Greg's vision of Glorantha. If it ever did. That said, RQ-Glorantha is still a real fun place to play, and I don't imagine many of us will be leaving it through a minor quibble about the magic system. (Or why do we still play RQ3, with crap Sorcery rules and all?) Which means, as we can have no fixed model for what is Gloranthan and what ain't, that each of us can espouse the gaming-style that suits us best. But that doesn't mean we shouldn't express opinions about how the game-of-the- world "ought to work". I think Resurrection should be difficult, dangerous and scary. I can't turn that concept into a mechanic, because then it would become abuseable. I just bear it in mind whenever the idea comes up, and try to spread it through nuance and innuendo. Otherwise, if I pin it down to die rolls and POW costs and risks, some clever-clogs rules-lawyer will work out that the best and safest Resurrections are those cast by Chalana Arroy Dryads (or whatever) and try to warp the world that way. Like pissant powergamers wanting to play stinking Chaos cultists, or Illuminated Humakti Vampires, or shit like that. I say that we should Make Death Hurt, or where's the glory in adventuring? There's a good Orlanthi Stave about this, but I can't be bothered to dig it out right now (being drunk while I enjoy my last night as a 25-yr-old). You know the one I mean, anyway. ==== Nick ==== --------------------- From: 100102.3001@compuserve.com (Peter J. Whitelaw) Subject: Son of Geas Message-ID: <941004223700_100102.3001_BHJ55-1@CompuServe.COM> Date: 4 Oct 94 22:37:00 GMT X-RQ-ID: 6475 Hi all, Nick aired some grievances about the 'geas' mechanism as it stands. I have to confess that I had not given this subject much thought before now. On reflection, however, I tend to agree with much of Nick's post. The most persuasive arguement being: >I just can't help thinking of RQ OT characters in the Cult of Yahweh being >allowed to pick and choose (or rolling 1D10 to discover?) which of the Ten >Commandments they'll have to follow... I expect that a good Yelmalion, or Humakti, is going to try damn hard to abide by all the 'geasa' listed. I rather suspect that these represent just the tip of the iceberg though, particularly in the Yelmalion cult. It would not surprise me to learn that there are all manner of restrictions, customs, traditions and etiquette that ought to be adhered to. Many of course having been drawn from myth and legend. Along the lines of, 'It is said that, during the Solitude of Testing, X did Y. Therefore, all good Yelmalions also do Y.' 'Since Z does Y, he is a good Yelmalion. QED.' I find the idea of certain units, temples, communities, whatever adopting/emphasizing certain 'geasa' over others quite appealing. >Or making the whole thing more social/open, so that *most* Humakti try to >live by *all* the cult's Geases, even though only some of them would suffer >terrible punishments for breaking them. Certainly, the treatment that creates the least fuss in terms of tweaking the system is to encourage players to adhere to all the restrictions but only to enforce those received as geasa. Perhaps good roleplaying in respect of this should then be rewarded by increased likelihood of POW gain rolls (25-Current POW?) or an increased Luck roll (POWx6?) or faster Rune magic recovery or increased DI (1d50?). I cannot envision a 'formula' for such rewards since they would be derived from he GM's appraisal of the players' good roleplaying. If one is using PDP, however, the concept might well be abstracted in terms of the Traits & Pasions mechanism. David Dunham's suggestions for Yelmalio's virtuous traits are: Chaste, Energetic, Honest, Temperate & Valorous. It is not hard to envision circumstances in which any of these might be tested for a Sun Dome Templar. Errant behaviour might be rewarded with an opposed trait check, crass deviancy with an automatic increase in the opposed trait (and a visit from the Spirits of Reprisal, maybe?). For example, lying to an outsider and lying to a brother Templar. If you were specifically geased never to lie then, not only do you get an immediate +1 on your Dishonest, but also Monrogh comes a callin'... Or, there might be an 'Honour Cult Lore' passion on which some sort of spin might be put? In my campaign we are working towards some sort of system by which progress in a cult is a function of one's religious virtue total. If it's above 60, you get access to Common Divine Magic, 70 gets you Reusable Common and One use Special whilst above 80 gets you the whole arsenal. Obviously, these levels correspond to those of Initiate, Acolyte and Priest although we use those terms rather loosely. I also allow players to subtract one tenth of their religious virtues total from their 1d100 DI rolls. We have nothing firm on paper yet; these are more lines of discussion. I fully appreciate that requiring strict adherence to religious virtues for progression does not have much basis in fact with regards to RW history, but it makes for a pleasing enough mechanism for rewarding players who endeavour to roleplay the requirements of their religions well. >Sorry about that, it's just a whinge I felt I had to get off my chest. No worries (as they say in the colonies). All the best, Peter --------------------- From: ddunham@radiomail.net (David Dunham) Subject: Orlanth Rex; swamps; Great Zimbabwe; geases Message-ID: <199410042223.AA29992@radiomail.net> Date: 4 Oct 94 22:23:05 GMT X-RQ-ID: 6476 Peter Metcalfe wonders >I have seen the Orlanth Rex subcult in the Orlanth >writeup in Heroes and for some reason it was dropped from River of >Cradles Presumably because Orlanth Rex isn't worshipped in Prax. It's a ruler cult, and Orlanth isn't the ruling god in Prax. >As O. Rex was invented by Alakoring Dragonslayer, this raises the >question of how the Orlanthi organized themselves into SupraClan >organizations before. They probably didn't, or only did so rarely. There are a lot of Orlanthi that can't effectively do so now. >The marshes are not exactly the healthiest places to live in the RW, >(note how we like to drain our swamps?) Most of us come from places where we plant a single crop in huge fields, or live in concrete cities. I think our views of swamps are very different from the Pamaltelans. I wish I knew more about the Bayou in Mississippi. I do know the area surrounding Tenochtitlan [today's Mexico City] was once quite swampy; apparently it didn't prevent a large number of Aztecs from living nearby, and obtaining many food resources from the swamp. >it is hard to find a good book on Golden Zimbabwe as most of them >are concerned with proving that 'ignorant blacks' could not possibly >have constructed them. Does anybody have good references? You've got to be kidding. A book I have, but haven't finished, is "The Mystery of the Great Zimbabwe," by Wilfrid Mallows. "The author believes that the Great Zimbabwe was built as a ninth-century prison camp for black slaves before they were deported to the Middle East. His theory differs substantially from most current explanations." [One of the articles he cites is entitled "Sofala and the S.E. African Iron Age." We know the Turtle Goddess played an important role in Glorantha, but apparently she influenced Africa as well.] Nick Brooke proposes >Or making the whole thing more social/open, so that *most* Humakti try to >live by *all* the cult's Geases, even though only some of them would suffer >terrible punishments for breaking them. That's how I view it. But how is that different from the situation as written? >if you rewrote Chalana Arroy >(for example) to say that "all Healers must take a Geas to harm no living >being" But that's exactly what they do. Well OK, it's a vow, but there's little difference between them, except that a geas is imposed by someone else and a vow is self-sworn. (In my Ralios campaign, one character just handed all his first aid supplies to another character before visiting Soothing Touch's Grove, for fear of possibly violating one of his geases: Never use healer's tools in a sacred grove in Sea season.) --------------------- From: jcw7@postoffice.mail.cornell.edu (Chris Wehman) Subject: Dirkar the Betrothed Message-ID: <199410042229.SAA04317@postoffice.mail.cornell.edu> Date: 4 Oct 94 14:29:21 GMT X-RQ-ID: 6477 From the Desk of Dirkar Sunspear of Yelm the Warrior Near Garhound Fire Season, Harmony Week, Wildday 1615 Addressed to Lars Smithson Flintnail Temple Big Rubble Dear Lars Smithson, As you may well already know, I am to be betrothed to the daughter of Duke Raus. It seems that my father and mother have finally chosen a bride for me in the Dara Happan tradition. I was wondering if you would accompany me on the trip down to Fort Raus, as it is rather dangerous to traverse near the North Bog. There will be other companions as well, you see. Pleurius Maximus, the son of the Carmanian exile, should be joining us, if he can be torn away from his studies. Also, the Agimori who was on our shield push team, Hunts Wisely, should be joining us also. He mentioned something to me about avoiding tribal women or something, but I do not understand his primitive customs, and it is probably for the best that I don't. Also, the half-file of militiamen that I command will be accompanying us down, as I will perform the requisite hazia-patrol on the way. Ohh, that reminds me, you probably didn't know that I had been conscripted to the militia. As you might expect, it did not take long before I was leading my own half-file. The infernal Sun Dome tactics. I believe that a mix with calvary would be a more effective option, but it has something to do with a silly bargain with the primatives. I want to voice my concerns about this betrothal, as it seems rather strange that I, the son of a Dara Happan soldier and wine maker, might come to marry the daugther of a Duke. I bet she is sight to behold(cringe). The Duke himself seems to be an industrious chap, though I have never understood the ancestor worshiping members of Dara Happan society. Then again, I left when I was twelve. I had hoped to be betrothed to one of the more influential members of the Sun Dome, but I guessed that this might not happen, after the Junior Shield Push crown was taken from us for having a disguised female on our team. I guess to whom I am married does not matter anyway. Well, write me back and tell me whether you can go. I'm really not sure if you can read. No matter. Yelm rules through purity, Dirkar --------------------- From: mmorrison@VNET.IBM.COM (Michael C. Morrison 8-543-4706) Subject: CA/nonCA resurrexion; geases Message-ID: <1994Oct4.184535.44082@vnet.ibm.com> Date: 5 Oct 94 01:45:35 GMT X-RQ-ID: 6478 *** Reply to note of Tue, 4 Oct 94 09:16:22 +0100 *** by RuneQuest-Request@Glorantha.Holland.Sun.COM Simon Lipscomb gave what, for me, was an excellent description of how resurrexion should be played: Common for those societies that view death as a bad thing, rare for those that view death as a good thing. I think Dave Cordes' ideas can be added to make sure that each GM plays resurrexion as common or as rare as s/he likes. If resurrexion is common for a certain group of people, then it's up to the GM to decide just how common. And now we just need a rules mechanism ... I think Dave is spot on when he says it should be up to the GM. Let the rules say "This spell is to be modified in its availability by the GM based on whether s/he wants this spell to be common or rare" for some of the more powerful spells, like resurrexion. Most spells will be as common as they are now, based on the cult, but some could be -- should be -- modified by each GM. I also want to add Nick Brooke's dictum that the GM never cheats. Let each GM decide how to run his/r game and all will be well with the world. Oh that it be so ... Also Nick talks about geasa. I agree that any cult that has them ought to make sure *everyone* follows them, even if they don't have them. Otherwise, the geased-ones will be revered or scorned out of turn. In games I've played in, my Humakti and Yelmalions respected all geasa, because we could get them one day. That doesn't means forfeiting armour etc before we had to, or not talking ever ... it does mean that the Humakti don't lie (bad habit anyway), don't ambush, don't use poison, etc. But geasa are different than the Judeo-Christian Ten Commandments. Those are the Law, no matter what -- geasa are only Law if you have them. I liken receipt of gifts/geasa as taking of orders in the Catholic or Anglican Church. You must have greater piety to receive them, but also take more responsibility. As you rise in the cult hierarchy, you must show yourself to be more pious -- more gifts/geasa. Cults that don't have gifts/geasa will probably scoff at those that do. But their members must also show piety as they rise in the ranks -- but in other ways. That's probably why cults with gifts/geasa have less Rune/Divine Magic available (am I overstepping my bounds yet?). Finally, I second Alex's plea for Free Int 8 in English. My German is better than 1%, but not at the 70%+ that it should be to read Free Int without discomfort (like reaching for the dictionary/Woerterbuch every sentence or so). When, Joerg, when? Michael ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Michael C. Morrison IMS Information Development Tieline 8-543-4706 Santa Teresa Lab, San Jose, California (SWS) Phone (408)463-4706 Bitnet ID: MCM at VNET Fax (408)463-4101 Internet ID: MMORRISON@VNET.IBM.COM or USIB47H4@IBMMAIL.COM IBM Mail Exchange ID: USIB47H4 at IBMMAIL or USIB4MCM at IBMMAIL X.400 Address: G=mcmgm; S=morrison; P=ibmmail; A=ibmx400; C=us ----------------------------------------------------------------------- --------------------- From: rowe@CSUA.Berkeley.EDU (Eric Rowe) Subject: The Real Truth (tm) about the Red Moon Message-ID: <199410050713.AAA10576@soda.CSUA.Berkeley.EDU> Date: 4 Oct 94 17:13:20 GMT X-RQ-ID: 6479 This is the absolute truth and final word on what is going on with the red moon and the glowline. I know it is true, because I heard it from a guy named sid who is a drinking buddy of the man who cuts Greg Stafford's hair. This is how it all works.... As you are all aware, we see because of rays of light hitting our eyes. Most often the rays are reflected by commonplace items about us, we do not look directly into the sun because the rays are so powerful. Were we to look at the sun, we would see it, but not for long. Our eyes would be seared from our audacity. The red moon, like the sun, is a source of light rays(in this case red ones). Areas where the rays of the red moon reach are said to be within the glowline, for the reflection of red light off objects is noticible from outside the area. At this point in time the red moon is not all-powerful, so those in the glow may look upon it and see its glory. Those outside the glowline are not reached by the rays of the moon (unlike the sun) and therefore cannot gaze upon its splendor. The worshippers of the red goddess seek to increase the power of the red moon. When they construct a new temple of the reaching moon the moon is raised slightly higher in the sky which allows the rays of the moon to reach a larger area of land. The red moon also shifts towards the center of the expanded glowline. In addition, the increased worshippers strengthen the moon and its rays. Eventually, all the world will have temples and the righteous red moon will have ascended to it's proper height and location in the center of the sky. Replacing the old and corrupt sun. By then the red moon will be so splendid to gaze upon it would mean blindness; as it is now so with the sun. So look now at its splendor children, for you are the lucky ones blessed by its view. eric