From: RuneQuest-Request@Glorantha.Holland.Sun.COM (RQ Digest Maintainer) To: RuneQuest@Glorantha.Holland.Sun.COM (Daily automated RQ-Digest) Reply-To: RuneQuest@Glorantha.Holland.Sun.COM (RuneQuest Daily) Subject: RuneQuest Daily, Mon, 10 Oct 1994, part 1 Sender: Henk.Langeveld@Holland.Sun.COM Content-Return: Prohibited Precedence: junk X-RQ-ID: Intro This is the RuneQuest Daily Bulletin, a mailing list on the subjects of Avalon Hill's RPG and Greg Stafford's world of Glorantha. It is sent out once per day in digest format. More details on the RuneQuest Daily and Digest can be found after the last message in this digest. X-RQ-ID: index 6541: MOBTOTRM = MOBTOTRM@vaxc.cc.monash.edu.au - Sun Dome Cowboys Go Peloria 6542: bmason = (Bruce Mason) - Oh no: Sorcery! 6543: T.J.Minas = (T.J.Minas) - Humakti Geases (Should have been in yesterdays!) 6544: pheasant = (Nick Eden) - Aoelin castes 6545: 100270.337 = (Nick Brooke) - Dragonfriend 6546: erisie = (Sven *Erik Sievrin) - Re: RuneQuest Daily, Sun, 09 Oct 1994, part 1 6547: raphael = (Andrew Raphael) - Re: Swamp Thing --------------------- From: MOBTOTRM@vaxc.cc.monash.edu.au Subject: Sun Dome Cowboys Go Peloria Message-ID: <01HI3964EXZ69N9R9B@vaxc.cc.monash.edu.au> Date: 10 Oct 94 09:26:08 GMT X-RQ-ID: 6541 G'day Everyone, I have just got back from Necronomicon in Sydney where I ran Mike Dawson's Embarassment of Riches. Simple plot: Rokari peasants in Jonatela find a treasure too big to spend) It went down really well, so well in fact, two guys who played in one of the sessions asked me if they could come and play it *again*, so they did! As Necro attracts mainly the "free-form" end of the gamer scene, EoR's format was ideally suited to such a theme as it was pretty much diceless and the character sheets were blank peices of paper! "Here's your character sheets, go to it!" Each PC then had to write down 5 things I'm better at than the average peasant, 5 things I'm worse, etc. Although Mike had it that they should be young males 18-25, I let them be *any* age or sex, and had characters ranging from a 78 year old toothless crone (one-handed; local priest discovered her Earth Mother gold charm) to a 12 year old kid (played, incidently, by a 12 year old kid) to the village crazy girl (played by, yes, a crazy girl). Because everyone knew each other and were probably related, the players told everyone else all about their characters, eg. if one of the locals is an inveterate liar, everyone in village probably knows this as they've grown up with him. At Necro next year (September 29th - October 2nd) I am hoping to run the huge 70 player Gloranthan freeform Home of the Bold. _________________________ Vega, Queen of the Desert After my initial post on the subject, I have enjoyed the various speculations and rumours about what's really under Light Lady Vega Goldbreath's hauberk. For the record, in my vision of Glorantha, Vega *is* definitely a woman, though she is subject to all the smirks and purile speculation, particularly after Invictus invoked the "Oh damn, I've just got that "Love Only Earth Cultists' geas" to conveniently divorce her. (Among the upper echelons of Sun Dome society, this could be a very common pretext to get a divorce, unless of course your wife is an Ernalda cultist). _____________________ Temple of Black Arkat I am sold by Bernard Langham's concept that the Temple of Black Arkat is actually not a place, but an excessively trollophile secret society of human Sorcerors dedicated to the extirpation of Chaos through wholesale adoption of the Way of Darkness as revealed to humanity by Arkat Kingtroll. This idea is *amazingly* similar to one John Medway came up with for one of the NPCs in my scenario "Beyond the Building Wall", which will appear in issue #13 of TotRM. so amazingly similar, it's gotta be true! __________ Correction Nick Eden in X-RQ-ID: 6506 > Having spent some time as an Aeolian heretic I would dispute the idea > that we have a western mindset. Now it could just be that Nick Brooke's > version for How the West Was One (I'll try not to give anything important > away) diverges from the standard, but the standard doesn't seem to exist > in Greg's published writings anyway. Dave Hall actually wrote the HtWwO Aolian Church write-up, with Nick offering the occasional helpful hint. Cheers MOB --------------------- From: T.J.Minas@soton.ac.uk (T.J.Minas) Subject: Humakti Geases (Should have been in yesterdays!) Message-ID: <199410091353.OAA23654@willow.soton.ac.uk> Date: 9 Oct 94 15:53:01 GMT X-RQ-ID: 6543 This is a section that should have made it into yesterdays message from me, but time pressure (called a Lunar guard wandering around, shutting down the system!) forced it out. So, here it is. HUMAKTI GIFTS/GEASES My reasoning for not wearing armour, not accepting non- cult magic etc, would be that Humakt didn't wear any, or need the healing. (But note that, in CoP, Arroin is stated as the Humakt cults source of First Aid, presumbably implying that Humakt was aided by Arroin at some time. I feel that in RQ3, Humakti cultists should probably be able to learn Treat Poison, too.) Incidentally, on the subject of Geases for Humakti, remember all those chaotic guys who worship Humakt? Bet the use no poison and never take part in an ambush are real bummers for them! SHAMANIC RESURRECTION Somebody said (in Friday's Daily, I think) that they prefered to have their Shamans resurrect people via the Shamanic technique, not the Divine one. I have a few quibbles with this. a) Most Shamans aren't powerful enough (IMO) to be able to resurrect people via the Shamanic route. But its pretty easy for them to join Daka Fal, and gain the spells that way. b) Even if players do look at the ritual occuring, how in Hell are they going to be able to tell the difference between a Shamanic resurrection and a Daka Fal ceremony (possibly involving Ancestral summonings anyway)??? Unless one of them is a shaman themselves, or maybe casts Mystic Vision/Second Sight etc and keeps it up for the entire (several hour long!) ceremony. It's just a long stonkingly complex and very magical ceremony to them! c) Also, if we are to relate to a point someone else made about Greg's view of Glorantha having about 1/10 the Healing magic we see in RQ, then I expect the Shamanic option to be even harder! d) And the standard shamanic technique is probably to intercede with some stonky Healing spirit anyway, as the alternative (as has been discussed) is very hard, and liable to major problems. Remember, Glorantha is different, the Gods are real, everyday occurrences, and probably 90%+ of the intelligent beings on Glorantha worship a deity, and receive the benefits thereof. Therefore, the Divine option is (IMO) the most likely way to Resurrect your dead friend (either via DI or some spell). Most Shamans worship gods, even if they treat with them merely as huge spirits, and that will be the way they will go about gaining a considerable number of their abilities. A few other things sprang to mind:- SAFELSTER CITY STATES These are the places that I view as the nearest parallel to the Italian medieval city states, with their commercial rivalry, and even potential internecine warfare. I'm not sure whether any of them would be Venetian in flavour (ie Older, possibly more powerful, and ?more corrupt/decadent) but I'm sure that someone could do something with this area. In fact, I think it would be a very good area for an adventure type pack, or series of books (each detailing a different city say). Lots of easy opportunities for adventures that aren't just Dungeon bashes, but are spying missions, trading, diplomacy, kidnap, insurrection, recovery of missing people/property, etc. Read Shakespeare's Italian plays for much of the flavour, also some books by Elizabeth Eyre, featuring an ex-mercenary hero by the name of Sigismondo (Curtains for the Cardinal, Poison for a Prince and Death of a Duchess are the titles that I can recall). Also, a tale which amused me when I read it, Siena has a few massive walls from a huge uncompleted ?C13-C14 cathedral just sitting in the middle of the city. It was planned to be the largest in the world (outdoing one of its neighbouring rivals who had just built a cathedral larger than Siena's current one), with the existing (and now still extant) cathedral as the nave! However, before more than a few walls could be built, the Black death struck, and they abandoned the scheme, lacking money, people and energy for such schemes. But it would make a great sort of background story for players, this intense rivalry between the cities. That's about it for now Tim --------------------- From: pheasant@cix.compulink.co.uk (Nick Eden) Subject: Aoelin castes Message-ID:Date: 9 Oct 94 18:06:28 GMT X-RQ-ID: 6544 In-Reply-To: <9410090815.AA06915@glorantha.Holland.Sun.COM> Jeorg Writes about me writing > > The Aeolians are not Westerners. They have an Orlanthi view of the > caste > systems, > > Yes, although not that close to KoS p.246f as you presented it in the > caste committee, IMO. Well I'd never heard of them before and was going entirely on what Nick Brooke had written. I'd forgotten you were in that committee as well... --------------------- From: 100270.337@compuserve.com (Nick Brooke) Subject: Dragonfriend Message-ID: <941009193855_100270.337_BHL78-1@CompuServe.COM> Date: 9 Oct 94 19:38:55 GMT X-RQ-ID: 6545 _______ Peter M includes: > Orlanth Dragonfriend: An EWF Cult. Probably defunct. Also, almost certainly reconstituted by Argrath. > Orlanth New Wind: A cult set up by Lokaymadon during the Empire of > Light. It is dead now but one wonders why the Lunar Empire hasn't tried > to resurrect this cult to integrate Orlanthi belief better into the > Empire? Because they don't want to integrate Orlanthi belief into the Empire. The Lunars are contesting with the Orlanthi over possession of the Middle Air. At the present stage, the two rival elements are *alternatives*: you can't synthesise them. Not many Orlanthi are out integrating Lunar belief into their tribal religion, are they? (Except, of course, the afore-mentioned Argrath). Maybe he, and other White Moonies, would see this as a viable way forward; but to the current Lunar administration it'd look (appropriately enough) like lunacy. Why compromise when we're ahead? _________ Nick Eden on Geases: > He will forever emulate Yelmalio in one specific way. The way may be > rather trivial - never eat the flesh of bird, or quite important - total > celibacy, though there's nothing in there as major as Humakt's 'never > accept healing of any kind'. Ahem. I think "total celibacy" is a more significant geas for roleplaying purposes than "never accept healing of any kind". Maybe it's just that I live in a clan-based campaign, and aspire to a Pendragon chronology... ____ Erik on Humakti > Humakti kill, but they do not _murder_ per se - at least not the Manirian > Humakti we all know and love. Ask Prince Temertain about Sarostip Cold-Eye and his Humakti assassins one of these days... Oh, you say that wasn't murder "per se"? One man's freedom fighter... Quibbling apart, I agree that Humakti Tricksters are about as reasonable as Humakti Vampires or female Sun Lords. ==== Nick ==== --------------------- From: erisie@utu.fi (Sven *Erik Sievrin) Subject: Re: RuneQuest Daily, Sun, 09 Oct 1994, part 1 Message-ID: Date: 10 Oct 94 01:08:10 GMT X-RQ-ID: 6546 Really a non-Glorantha question, but anyway: Is there anyone who knows if there exists something similar to this digest for White Wolf's games, or for Empire of the Petal Throne? Glad for any help in that regard! And thanks for more C/Karse info! Erik --------------------- From: raphael@research.canon.oz.au (Andrew Raphael) Subject: Re: Swamp Thing Message-ID: <199410100237.AA12780@mama.research.canon.oz.au> Date: 10 Oct 94 22:37:53 GMT X-RQ-ID: 6547 sandyp@idcube.idsoftware.com (Sandy Petersen) writes: >There are plenty of people who live in swamps and love it. There are >swamp Arabs along the coast of the Red Sea, who have reed boats and >hunt marsh boars. There are the bayou folk of Louisiana. There are >the Seminole swamp indians of the Everglades. Don't forget Pogo & Albert. :-) They'd make great characters to filch for wyter personalities. Really, I think the dislike of swamps & the insistence on draining them is a side-effect of civilisation. You can't build a city in a swamp unless you drain the swamp first. Cultures that aren't interested in building can use a swamp without destroying it. -- Andrew Raphael "She's probably not what she seems, though she tries" --------------------- From: bmason@morgan.ucs.mun.ca (Bruce Mason) Subject: Oh no: Sorcery! Message-ID: Date: 9 Oct 94 08:15:11 GMT X-RQ-ID: 6542 Hi Folks, first time I've been back online for 3 years. Last time I was here this was the RQDigest and *everyone* talked about rules. Things have certainly changed. Anyhow, rather than stumble into the midst of ongoing decisions I'ld like to start a new track on an ongoing project of mine --- the subject says it all. I'll send it in 3 batches so as not to take up too much space and and to allow easy skipping for those so inclined. This is of course yet another attempt at Gloranthan sorcery. I'll append meta-comments at the end of the final chunk but the basic ground rules are these: 1) A playable system. 2) One that does not totally invalidate all those sorcery supplements... 3) One that draws on the various Gloranthan principles we all love. 4) One that maintains the concept of sorcery as a spiritual/intellectual pursuit. Some of this comes from a late-night conversation with Sandy Petersen at Convulsion, particularly the concept of the ``vessel'' which I've fitted into my Gloranthan paradigm. The Concept ----------- There is as much of a difference between a sorceror and a sorcery user as there is between a Shaman and a person who knows ``Uncle Igran's lucky sword spell'' (Bladesharp 2), or a priest and an initiate. In RQ3 and RAG (RQ Adventures in Gloranthan) this was done by forbidding certain manipulation skills to commoners. Instead I use the concept of the ``Vessel.'' This is a Theyalan term for to them a sorceror is a meldek or ``Empty Vessel.'' It possible comes from one of the aphorisms of Malkion who stated that ``for the grace of God to fill your cup you must first empty it.'' This is mundanely taken to refer to the casting away or forgetting of pagan magics. So what is the Vessel. In a sense it is the spiritual or ``hidden'' self of the wizard. This is a concept usually applied to shamans or mystery cults (I'm talking real world as well as Glorantha here) in which an iniatory ritual can awaken a spiritual entity associated with that person. In a sense we can draw a threefold relationship between a type of magician and her relation to her hidden self. The Shaman: awakens her hidden self --- the fetch. Partnership. The Priest: sacrifices her hidden self to her God. Sacrifice. The Wizard: controls her hidden self. Enslavement. My concept then is that for a person to become a sorceror they undertake a lengthy course of study and enlightenment in order for them to prepare for a great ritual known as ``The Emptying of the Vessel.'' Once the sorceror has successfully completed this she is set apart from others spiritually and socially, for the vessel is what allows her to control the secrets of sorcery. Building a Base. ---------------- There are certain game systems I've modified over the last 10 years which have become inextricably linked to my concept of sorcery so I'll summarize them here. Some of these have surfaced in recent Chaosium publications &/or RAG, which is not unsurprising for we are all working from the same base. 1) Always round up. 2) Specials. No longer exist. Criticals only. 3) Criticals. A critical result is 1/10th of the skill success chance. (cf The Nephilim.) Criticals are generally downgraded. For example in combat the standard critical result is ``roll weapon damage twice.'' 3a) Critical expansion. For skills in 100-199% range critical is 2/10ths skill%. Eg climb 143% = critical 30%. (143/10 = 14.3 = 15 * 2 = 30%). For skill in 200-299% range critical is 3/10ths etc.[1] 4) The resistance table no longer exists. All stats are compared using ``opposed rolls.''[2] 5) Opposed rolls are introduced. I expect most people are familiar with this concept from Pendragon or its partial introduction in RAG. Quite simply opposed rolls are a unified method for comparing skills and abilities in a contest situation. Basically all parties roll percentile dice and the best result wins. So how do you define the best result? Critical beats everything; Normal beats failure or fumble; fail loses unless opponent fumbles in which case you win by default; fumbles always lose. It can be seen then that there are 3 possible outcomes: both parties lose --- in which case nothing changes. one wins and one loses --- obvious really. both parties make roll --- a tie. In this case the *highest* roll wins. If both parties roll the same then treat it as both parties lose and try again.[3] 5a) Stats contests are resolved using opposed rolls. Simply you multiply the stat by 5 and then pit the stats against each other. It is a good idea to actually have these written on the character sheet.[4] 6) The concordance relationship: 1 stat point = 5% = 1 MP = 1 HP. End of Part 1 ------------- This is long enough already. The basic method to casting sorcery is an opposed roll of sorceror's skill% vs. the MPs in the spell (see concordance rule 6 --- skill% vs MPs*5%). I'll explain the nuts and bolts of this next and finally explain the role of the vessel. As I say this has been played over 10 years and evolved considerably as it went along, a very early version even appeared in Heroes under a pseudonym where it was so badly edited that even I couldn't figure it out! I've just left my gaming group in the UK behind and have got no one to play with out here :-( so this seemed like a good time to put it out for comments. If you're not interested in rules please ignore this rather than flaming me. =================== Footnotes: --------- [1] There are several reasons behind this change. First it simplifies the opposed roll system. Secondly it is easier to run with new players who won't have skills over 100%. Thirdly it allows a redefinition of skill mastery (over 100%). Finally there is upwards compatibility with a high-level HeroQuest game in which you can compare types of critical. [2] This looks controversial I know, but junking the resistance table was popular at the RQrules panel at Convulsion. Basically why have two systems when one will do? Interestingly Nephilim goes the other way and uses the resistance table to compare skills/5. Both options have their advantages. [3] This is the one change that tends to throw long-term RQ players. The justification is statistics, game gets very quirky if lowest number rolled wins. RAG came up with the rule ``person who made their skill roll by the most wins.'' This is very handy for skills over 100 but it takes so much longer to work out (I know I've tried GMing it) that I don't think it's worth the extra hassle. Also my players prefer the high roll wins rule over all others I've tried. [4] I try to avoid stat*X rolls where X is some random number deriving from how difficult the roll should be. This is purely for maths sake, generally the multiplications there are in a game, the worse. But that's just personal preference. I would rather be able to say ``make a strength roll at -20%'' than to have to say ``make a STR*3 roll'' then wait whilst everyone tries to figure out what 14*3 comes to and was 47 a success? =========================================== ---------------------