From: RuneQuest-Request@Glorantha.Holland.Sun.COM (RQ Digest Maintainer)
To: RuneQuest@Glorantha.Holland.Sun.COM (Daily automated RQ-Digest)
Reply-To: RuneQuest@Glorantha.Holland.Sun.COM (RuneQuest Daily)
Subject: RuneQuest Daily, Thu, 13 Oct 1994, part 1
Sender: Henk.Langeveld@Holland.Sun.COM
Content-Return: Prohibited
Precedence: junk
X-RQ-ID: Intro
This is the RuneQuest Daily Bulletin, a mailing list on
the subjects of Avalon Hill's RPG and Greg Stafford's
world of Glorantha. It is sent out once per day in digest
format.
More details on the RuneQuest Daily and Digest can be found
after the last message in this digest.
X-RQ-ID: index
6558: mcarthur = (Robert McArthur)
- Re: slarges
6559: bmason = (Bruce Mason)
- Oh no sorcery: part 2
6560: ns10005 = (N. Smith)
- Moon Gazing
6561: davidc = (David Cake)
- Hopefully my last word on the Kitori (for now)
6562: vladt = (Kevin Rose)
- Souless Shamans and other oddities
6563: 100116.2616 = (David Hall)
- Anthony & Cleopatra?
6564: mmorrison = (Michael C. Morrison 8-543-4706)
- Resurrexion (again)
6565: joe = (Joerg Baumgartner)
- Kitori
6566: ns10005 = (N. Smith)
- Shamanic Ressurection
6567: pheasant = (Nick Eden)
- Aoelian Appologies
6568: DevinC = DevinC@aol.com
- Re: RuneQuest Daily, Sat, 08 Oct 1994, part 1
6569: bmason = (Bruce Mason)
- Oh no sorcery: final part.
6570: sandyp = (Sandy Petersen)
- Slarges et al.
6571: ddunham = (David Dunham)
- V-pyramids; marriage; Esrolia; heads; slarges
6572: SMITHH = (Harald Smith 617 724-9843)
- more moonlight
6573: igorlick = (ian i. gorlick)
- Head taking
6574: joe = (Joerg Baumgartner)
- Shamans and divine magic
6575: hasni = (Richard Ohlson)
- Re: RuneQuest Daily, Tue, 11 Oct 1994, part 2
6576: T.J.Minas = (T.J.Minas)
- RE: Cult initiation/parent haters!
6577: igorlick = (ian i. gorlick)
- Bits needed for resurrection
---------------------
From: mcarthur@fit.qut.edu.au (Robert McArthur)
Subject: Re: slarges
Message-ID: <199410110940.TAA08773@ocean.fit.qut.edu.au>
Date: 12 Oct 94 05:40:32 GMT
X-RQ-ID: 6558
[Australian joke follows]
> Nope. The Slarges live in Wongarissi to the West of Pamaltela. Dunno
Sure Greg didn't mean something to do with Ron Barrasi [sp?] - the chief slarge!
---------------------
From: ns10005@hermes.cam.ac.uk (N. Smith)
Subject: Moon Gazing
Message-ID:
Date: 12 Oct 94 13:26:02 GMT
X-RQ-ID: 6560
Hello all,
there has been a lot of talk lately about whether the Red Goddess
is visible, waxes/wanes, etc. I vaguely remember, but have so far been
unable to find, a 'travelogue' by someone approaching the glow-line and
then continuing on to Glamour. This mentioned the change from phasing to
an always full moon on crossing the Glowline and the fact that as you
approached Glamour the moon appeared lower in the sky, yet seemed to be
smaller.
I like this because it seems more mystical, gives new players a
reminder that Glorantha isn't the RW with funny names, and can give rise
to interesting propaganda when they ask about it.
eg. Orlanthi- That's the changing face of chaos, ain't it.
That's because she struggles against Orlanth but He
keeps pushing her away.
Lunars- This shows how the Red Goddess can tame chaos,
bring it within the power of time.
The face of the Goddess always looks on the
Blessed, when your land joins Her, you will also see Her at all times.
Shaman- She's a big spirit, immortal. Of course Her heart
beats slowly.
New players can also be caught by sending them over the Glow-line
on an errand, which a Lunar magician is trying to prevent. He attacks
every full moon, including the night before they cross the Glow-line.
They, used to the pattern, think themselves safe, when for the second
night running a full moon is noticed. Panic! Confusion! A demonstration
that this is not Earth by another name!
Sorry for the ramble, feel free to flame...
Nigel
---------------------
From: davidc@cs.uwa.edu.au (David Cake)
Subject: Hopefully my last word on the Kitori (for now)
Message-ID: <199410120945.RAA20136@cs.uwa.oz.au>
Date: 13 Oct 94 01:58:12 GMT
X-RQ-ID: 6561
David Hall very usefully mentions
>Kitori tribe:
>
>>From some notes I took at Chaosium (90% accurate):
>
>Founded by human Argan Argar refugees from the Kingdom of the Only Old One
>and the
>Trolls of the Troll Woods who sheltered them.
This sounds like a very plausible and reasonable history for the Kitori.
> They are said to have twin
>kings, both said to be married to the Kitori mother, a Kyger Litor
>ancestress, who is the founder of a
>Daka Fal dynasty which settled the region and took over from the elves in
>the 2nd Age.
>
This is close enough to my own ideas as to be easily reconciled. We
now have a clan with two Argan Argari Kings (the Day-King and the
Night-King), both allegedly married to the KL Queen (though only the
Night-King is likely to consumate this marriage, and he may not anyway).
The ruling religions are Daka Fal and Argan Argar. Among the trolls KL
blends with Daka Fal.
>Estimated population: Man-Kitori 7,000 and Troll-Kitori 10,000. The humans
>farm, the
>trolls prefer to stay in the shadow of the woods.
>
OK, so the humans still farm. Still not as much as most Orlanthi, probably.
CHeers
David Cake
>David
---------------------
From: vladt@interaccess.com (Kevin Rose)
Subject: Souless Shamans and other oddities
Message-ID:
Date: 11 Oct 94 13:46:18 GMT
X-RQ-ID: 6562
Souless Shamans and other oddities.
I keep hitting a wall when I consider the concept of the "Presence Vessel"
system. It mostly has to do with the concepts of Vampires and other
creatures that lack POW casting spells whose manipulation depends on the
previous expendature of permanent POW. So, the question I keep coming up
with is how does a creature that has no soul create the Vessel?
Greg's answer to how vampires cast spirit magic was that they cannot. As
they have no permanant power they cannot cast spirit magic. As the fetch
is a part of their soul/POW, a vampire or other creature without permanent
POW cannot have one. So how can they cast sorcery?
I haven't heard an answer that didn't seem to be a rules hack. Rules
hacks are fine, but if the claim is that the precensce vessel system is a
GUTM (grand unified theory of magic) it doesn't make sense for there to
be major execptions.
I also have some other problems involving attitudes towards magic by
dwarves and many other sorcery users that doesn't really fit Paul's system.
Kevin Rose
---------------------
From: 100116.2616@compuserve.com (David Hall)
Subject: Anthony & Cleopatra?
Message-ID: <941011204134_100116.2616_BHG44-2@CompuServe.COM>
Date: 11 Oct 94 20:41:34 GMT
X-RQ-ID: 6563
Correction:
I think watching the X-Files must have unnerved me. Of course, the Pharaoh
is long gone by 1619/20 and the damage done to the City of Wonders is to
its defenders. The Kingdom of Malkonwal is a symptom and not a cause of the
Pharaoh's demise - though they probably contributed to the breakdown of the
Pharaoh's Council.
Fazzur the Great:
At RQ-Con in Germany Joerg and myself came up with some insights into why
the greatest general in all of Glorantha (ever), Fazzur Wideread, was not
at his best in the Heortland/Esrolian campaign. I think it is now time for
the world to know the truth.
The first mistakes in the siege of Whitewall (as we all know) were down to
incompetent subordinates - no doubt imposed upon Fazzur by the King of
Tarsh. However, Fazzurs subsequent mishandling of the seige and his
over-ambitious campaign in Esrolia are frankly mystifying considering his
utter brilliance as a strategist and tactician. These miscalculations led
to his removal from command and, with hindsight, signalled the beginning of
the end for the Lunar Empire.
Diligent research has now revealed to me, and to my esteemed colleague,
Joerg Baumgartner, that the reason for this was LOVE. Yes, Fazzur was in
love, and as a result (temporarily) his mind was unhinged. Who was the
object of his attentions? Is it not obvious!? It was none other than the
Queen of the Red Earth Alliance. This explains his failure to prosecute the
siege of Whitewall with the necessary vigour (he was rarely present at the
siege). It also explains Fazzur's anger at the withdrawal of troops from
his Esrolian invasion army (which would in fact have opened up a dangerous
2nd front), and his determination to send many of his best men to aid the
queen in lieu of the promised troops.
Our subsequent research finds some evidence to support the view that even
after his dismissal Fazzur was able to rescue the Queen in a daring and
brilliantly conceived combined arms raid. The lovers then returned home to
Tarsh. It is clear that some difficulties were experienced with his first
wife, but after her strangulation (hey, no-one's perfect) they both lived
happily ever after.
Don't you just love happy endings?
Cheers,
David
---------------------
From: mmorrison@VNET.IBM.COM (Michael C. Morrison 8-543-4706)
Subject: Resurrexion (again)
Message-ID: <1994Oct11.131934.61654@vnet.ibm.com>
Date: 11 Oct 94 20:19:34 GMT
X-RQ-ID: 6564
*** Reply to note of Tue, 11 Oct 94 09:16:07 +0100
*** by RuneQuest-Request@Glorantha.Holland.Sun.COM
The question was asked about whether taking someone's head would be
sufficient to stop resurrexion. Regardless of a soul, I'd say yes.
One requirement for resurrexion is having a complete body (or at
least the important bits) -- soul or no, the head is important (eyes,
ears, not to mention brain ... admittedly bronze age folks probably
don't know what the brain is all about). And, last time I looked,
you couldn't regrow a head (Regrow Limb). So, no head, no resurrect.
After all, isn't that one of the reasons Thanatari take heads?
Finally, I just want to say that I think Joerg's and Takehiro's R/W
English is significantly higher than 20-30%. I'd say around 75%.
After all, you're following many different native speakers on many
different topics with (seeming) ease. And your appends are both
semantically and syntactically very good -- better than some native
English speakers!
If my German and Japanese were at 30% (as you both claim for your
English), I'd be very happy and able to communicate! As it is, my
R/W Japanese is maybe 5% and my R/W German maybe 30% (my scale) ...
Michael
-----------------------------------------------------------------------
Michael C. Morrison IMS Information Development Tieline 8-543-4706
Santa Teresa Lab, San Jose, California (SWS) Phone (408)463-4706
Bitnet ID: MCM at VNET Fax (408)463-4101
Internet ID: MMORRISON@VNET.IBM.COM or USIB47H4@IBMMAIL.COM
IBM Mail Exchange ID: USIB47H4 at IBMMAIL or USIB4MCM at IBMMAIL
X.400 Address: G=mcmgm; S=morrison; P=ibmmail; A=ibmx400; C=us
-----------------------------------------------------------------------
---------------------
From: joe@sartar.toppoint.de (Joerg Baumgartner)
Subject: Kitori
Message-ID:
Date: 12 Oct 94 12:17:56 GMT
X-RQ-ID: 6565
David Cake in X-RQ-ID: 6549
> On Joergs City List
> - this is very useful, I liked it a lot.
Thanks here for all the compliments. In fact, this was a very minor piece
of inspiration, just a bit of time sitting down collecting and assessing
the facts. If people really liked it, I might be tempted to do a similar
list for the Dragon Pass locations - I expect more corrections and input
there, though.
>>IMO the House of Black Arkat is situated somewhere north of the Kingdom
>>of Malkonwal, since I cannot imagine that the du Tumerine Rokari would
>>have tolerated this nest of heresies for long.
> There are an awful lot of heretics! I think the Rokari achieve
> political rule - but I do not think that they have the time to consolidate
> religious rule. In the short time that the Rokari run the place, they
> hardly have the time to be disbanding every minor temple.
Disbanding is one way to call it. Confiscation of heathen symbols
that happen to be made of valuable materials is a totally different
motivation for zealous and covetous new rulers to inspect the holy
places in their new lands. Both the du Tumerines (who come from a
mercantile family after all) and Richard's boon companions, mostly
second and later sons, will be set upon getting heirlooms for their
own lines of the family.
>>The IMO most likely place for the House of Black Arkat would be in
>>the neighbourhood of Smithstone, roughly at the place where a tributary
>>forks north from the Marzeel River, into Sun Dome County. This is
>>conveniently equidistant from both the Troll Woods and the Shadow Plateau,
>>in a region not infested by other Henotheists or Stygians, close enough to
>>cause trouble with Yelmalio worshippers, and within reach for human Kitori
>>who want to study there rather than in their woods.
> I still think that it could easily be farther South, but this is an
> OK position. As long as it is out of troll territory, as the trolls already
> have their own Arkat temples.
My argument against a location farther south is that there would be
a constant source of bloody heads between them and Aeolians, who IMO
think that Arkat becoming a troll and ZZ member was not a commendable
action. I'm not even sure they think it is necessary, but I know David
Hall's write-up and that he thinks they regard this step as a necessary
one. David, publish your version!
David Hall's info on the Kitori was also very appreciated.
Are there any infos on the rough populations of the Sartarite and
Volsaxi tribes and clans (other than the piece on the Colymar's
fighting strength by an urban Lunar used to Pelorian peasants)?
The Sartar High Council freeform scenario in WF7 has numbers attached to
the members, as indicators of their political and military weight. Would
these (rather low numbers, e.g. 6500 for the Colymar tribe, 3300 for the
Culbrea) be usable as a basis for calculating rough data on settlements
and fyrd? (I take these numbers to be fyrd numbers, otherwise I'd have
difficulties to add up to the approximately 180,000 inhabitants of Sartar.)
--
-- Joerg Baumgartner joe@sartar.toppoint.de
---------------------
From: ns10005@hermes.cam.ac.uk (N. Smith)
Subject: Shamanic Ressurection
Message-ID:
Date: 11 Oct 94 14:21:08 GMT
X-RQ-ID: 6566
A quick, and poorly explained, idea. Lunchtimes are getting shorter!
A total guess, but wouldn't most of the spirits which possess
ressurection spells be CA initiates (from various discussions about CA
Temple sizes)?
If this is the case, then shaman should be careful as to the way
in which they handle these spirits, since Controling or Binding them
could be construed as an attack on a CA initiate--with all problems which
would result from an attack against a mortal CA cultist.
This brings a new dimension to shamanic ressurection--bargaining.
The spirit would wish to comply but would then have to return to the
spell source or a temple to regain the spell, as per normal, and thus
Glorantha would lose the benefits of an active Health Spirit for a period
of time.
Can you make an offer it can't refuse?
Nigel
---------------------
From: pheasant@cix.compulink.co.uk (Nick Eden)
Subject: Aoelian Appologies
Message-ID:
Date: 12 Oct 94 12:14:07 GMT
X-RQ-ID: 6567
David I abase myself before you.
For some reason I'd got the idea that Nick B was the first name on this
list and had been bandying his name about as the inventor of the Aoelian
church. Sorry.
I'd suggest not publishing too much more about them until after RQ Con
II. Some brave soul will have to play Gwydion again, and it would be less
fun if all the Rokari scum knew everything about him.
---------------------
From: DevinC@aol.com
Subject: Re: RuneQuest Daily, Sat, 08 Oct 1994, part 1
Message-ID: <9410111516.tn365381@aol.com>
Date: 11 Oct 94 19:16:43 GMT
X-RQ-ID: 6568
Devin here:
Brian writes:
"Not to blow my own horn (Okay, I'll blow it)--There is a writeup of the
Vinga subcult on the ftp archive for the daily, ftp.csua.berkeley.edu
The cult is in the /pub/runequest/cults directory."
Well, could it be posted here for those of us who cannot ftp?
Regards,
Devin
devinc@aol.com
---------------------
From: ddunham@radiomail.net (David Dunham)
Subject: V-pyramids; marriage; Esrolia; heads; slarges
Message-ID: <199410112220.AA16928@radiomail.net>
Date: 11 Oct 94 22:20:33 GMT
X-RQ-ID: 6571
BTW, how do the proposed inverted pyramids of the Kingdom of Ignorance
stand up? Even regular pyramids are tricky (there's a pyramid in Egypt
which was under construction when another pyramid collapsed; the architects
accepted a change order, and the slope of the pyramid changes to make the
whole structure a little lighter).
Alex believes
>Well, technically, one doesn't join the clan one "marries into",
As I run Ralios, you _do_ join the clan you marry into. The wife can
participate in her new clan's heroquest, and gain access to the clan hero
power. (At the expense of not being able to use her original clan's hero
power, since she didn't attend their heroquest. She can, circumstances
permitting, rejoin her birth-clan at Sacred Time and participate in their
heroquest.)
Marriage is very much between two clans, at least at the noble level. Ekel
Field-Destroyer would love to have his remaining unmarried daughter find a
match in the powerful Nardain tribe. It would form important links between
their clans, and to a lesser extent, between the Riagos and Nardain tribes.
Sandy said
>While the "women rule" bit of Esrolia may or not be a
>stereotype, I would expect to find women in command of their armies,
>but men forming the bulk of the armed forces.
I agree, you put it better than I did.
Aside to Sandy: physically, the best jet fighter pilots would be short, fat
women. The limit on fighter performance is the human ability to take Gs,
and short, fat women can take more than us tall, lean men.
Paul Snow asked
>Does collecting the heads of fallen enemies, in a Celtic-Orlanthi
>way, prevent resurrection?
and Sandy gave a "no" answer. Despite running an East Ralios game where the
Orlanthi _do_ collect heads, I hadn't given this a whole lot of thought
(since resurrection isn't easily available).
The obvious difficulty with resurrecting someone with a missing head is
that they'd be headless. So for practical purposes, head-removal would
work. However, I lean towards Sandy's interpretation, and with mighty
healing magics, you could probably regrow the head.
The real reason to take heads is to _use_ them. No, not in the Thanatari
way, a perversion no doubt introduced by Arkat the Devil. Two possible
rules (described in PenDragon Pass terms):
Displaying the head of an enemy's kin makes that enemy -2 against you
(though it may also inspire him to Love Family).
DEMORALIZE variable, ranged, passive
If this spell overcomes the target's POW, he must make a Cowardly roll, at
+2 for each magic point in the spell. If this succeeds, he loses faith in
the ability of himself and his party to win a fight, find treasure, rescue
the princess, etc. He uses no offensive tactics, and casts only defensive
and heal spells. If practical, he will withdraw from combat. Any Valorous
rolls needed are at -2 per point while the spell is active.
Having a head of a kinsman of the target adds to the effective
magic points of the spell: +1 point against members of the head's clan, +2
against members of the head's bloodline, +3 against brother, son, or
father.
This spell counteracts Fanaticism; if it's larger than the
Fanaticism, it forces a Cowardly roll based on the excess.
Peter Metcalfe asked of slarges:
>Does anybody have more info about them other than whats been said of
>in elder secrets?
Note that there are slarges in Griffin Island (on the cover, even). This
supplement is lamentably out of print -- yeah, it's not as good as Griffin
Mountain, and it's not Gloranthan, but it's a nice low-level campaign with
very good handouts.
---------------------
From: SMITHH@A1.MGH.HARVARD.EDU (Harald Smith 617 724-9843)
Subject: more moonlight
Message-ID: <01HI59EB5X9MS9NOKY@MR.MGH.HARVARD.EDU>
Date: 11 Oct 94 04:39:00 GMT
X-RQ-ID: 6572
- Eric responds to my comments on the Red Moon in X-RQ-ID 6514
Eric suggests that until the Fourth Wane the moon was just an ordinary
chunk of rock.
> Only at the time of Yana Aranis and the creation of the reaching moon
temples did the moon begin to give off rays of it's own. Before that the
moon was seen the same way you could see anything, reflected light from
the sun.
Well, I have a couple problems with this. First, the Sun is ABOVE the
moon and the light would be on top, not the side (unless you come up
with some convoluted theory about light bending downward). And further,
the Sun is only present during the day, not the night when the Moon is
most noticeable. Second, this implies that the moon and Red Goddess
lack light powers until the appearance of Yara Aranis--a contention I
think is disproved by the Battle of the Four Arrows of Light where the
goddess clearly demonstrates her powers over light. Only the First
Arrow (the glamours) would suggest measly reflective properties. Third,
the troll gods would not have had a problem with a body that merely
reflected sunlight since that would not shed light during the night and
violate the Compromise.
If you really want to contend that the Red Goddess had no light powers
of her own, but merely used the Sun's, then I think it much more
probable that she gathers the light of the Sun and releases it as she
will and where she will. But the whole idea of her rise into the sky
and the rise of the Crater parallels the aspect of Yelm/Murharzarm upon
the Footstool too closely.
> Hopefully you can remember what day it is.
This comment related more to the roving searchlight that Nick Brooke
proposed a while back and depended on which way the goddess was facing.
Where Wildday might be the Full Moon day in Dragon Pass it would be a
Black or Dying Moon day in Eol.
However, if the Glowline ensures a full moon and you can't see the moon
outside the Glowline (as you would propose) why bother with phases? If
I'm a Lunar magician and leave the Glowline and can no longer see the
Moon, I'm going to distrust my magic regardless of the now unseen phase.
> It is my contention that she is indeed contesting the for the middle
air, but from the lower air. When Orlanth is finally defeated she will
rise higher and be visible farther than at present. I think the whole
'contesting' idea is in fact that the problem is for the red moon to
rise higher, she must conquer and place temples in Orlanthi lands.
This is a reasonable argument, but I suggest that you tell people to
stop making maps that show otherwise then.
> I would have expected Knights and Dragons to have come marching into
central Genertela long ago.
The Knights did--they were Carmanians. The Orlanthi did--allies of
Jannisor and then Vareleus/Gwythar. The nomads did. The dragons don't
care or else see it as the proper merging of dark and light into one.