From: RuneQuest-Request@Glorantha.Holland.Sun.COM (RQ Digest Maintainer)
To: RuneQuest@Glorantha.Holland.Sun.COM (Daily automated RQ-Digest)
Reply-To: RuneQuest@Glorantha.Holland.Sun.COM (RuneQuest Daily)
Subject: RuneQuest Daily, Sat, 15 Oct 1994, part 1
Sender: Henk.Langeveld@Holland.Sun.COM
Content-Return: Prohibited
Precedence: junk
X-RQ-ID: Intro
This is the RuneQuest Daily Bulletin, a mailing list on
the subjects of Avalon Hill's RPG and Greg Stafford's
world of Glorantha. It is sent out once per day in digest
format.
More details on the RuneQuest Daily and Digest can be found
after the last message in this digest.
X-RQ-ID: index
6602: jonsg = (Jon Green)
- An empty vessel makes the most noise
6603: DevinC = DevinC@aol.com
- Slarge Cycle
6604: SMITHH = (Harald Smith 617 724-9843)
- sunshine on the moon
6605: niwe = (Nils Weinander)
- Inverted pyramids & more
6606: joe = (Joerg Baumgartner)
- Moon over Pavis
6607: joe = (Joerg Baumgartner)
- Mostali and Presence
6608: joe = (Joerg Baumgartner)
- Griffin Island/Mountain
6609: 100270.337 = (Nick Brooke)
- Esrolia
6610: ddunham = (David Dunham)
- Griffin Island
6611: 100116.2616 = (David Hall)
- Oh woe is me!
6612: hasni = (Richard Ohlson)
- Re: RuneQuest Daily, Fri, 14 Oct 1994, part 2
6613: button = (Captain Button)
- Corflu, HQs, Headhunters, Bless Crops
---------------------
From: jonsg@hyphen.com (Jon Green)
Subject: An empty vessel makes the most noise
Message-ID: <9410140840.AA02424@ren.hyphen.com>
Date: 14 Oct 94 10:40:58 GMT
X-RQ-ID: 6602
I seem to have lost the original posting which posited the 'vessel'
theories. Could someone please send it to me? Thanks.
Jon (whose middle finger on the left hand is now one knuckle shorter,
for safety reasons...:)
--
jonsg@hyphen.com
jon@sundome.demon.co.uk
---------------------
From: DevinC@aol.com
Subject: Slarge Cycle
Message-ID: <9410131441313125696@aol.com>
Date: 14 Oct 94 03:25:10 GMT
X-RQ-ID: 6603
Devin here:
Sandy gives some nice commentary on Slarges, which I appreciate since my
campaign is going to visit Pamaltela for the first time (en route from the
Bloggom Marshes back to Maniria).
However, I really have a problem with the CYCLE magic as described by Sandy
because it is entirely based upon the fact that, in Runequest the Game, we
write our statistics down on a character sheet in a certain order.
I find this intrudence of RQ gaming rules into the fabric of Glorantha
disturbing. After all, what is the Gloranthan relationship between APP and
STR or between POW and Dex that causes POW to be turned into Dex rather than
any others of the given characteristics.
I would rather see a more rational basis for this Cycle...something to the
effect of Cycle switching a being's physical energies with his mental
energies. In this case, STR would switch with INT, POW with Con, and Dex with
Appeal. Leave Size alone.
Other than that, I really appreciated the Slargfomation Sandy, keep it
coming!
Regards,
Devin
devinc@aol.com
---------------------
From: SMITHH@A1.MGH.HARVARD.EDU (Harald Smith 617 724-9843)
Subject: sunshine on the moon
Message-ID: <01HI9DX8FVD2S9OS0F@MR.MGH.HARVARD.EDU>
Date: 14 Oct 94 03:31:00 GMT
X-RQ-ID: 6604
Hi all--
- Paul Reilly proposes one means for the sun to shine upon the moon
providing light on the south face and bottom instead of from the top.
The presentation is quite reasonable, but I have a couple comments on this
approach, too. First, you would not get light on the north side and I've
never heard anything that suggested that Karasal, Eol, or the Blue Moon
Plateau did not get the benefit of moonlight. Second, the territories to
the east and west would forever see half moons--I doubt that First Blessed
would be limited to only seeing a half moon. Third, it still means that
the moon only receives light by day.
- Paul Pofandt asks about merging Griffin Island and Griffin Mountain.
I did so a few years back. Some pieces like Soldiers Fort were split up
amongst the other citadels (or dropped altogether like the Soldier Fort
leader). I know some of you received my revised Elkoi writeup awhile back.
I think I have similar writeups of Trilus and Dykene and perhaps some clan
notes (though I'm not positive on the latter). The travelogue speaks to
some of that as well. If you are interested and don't have these, but
would like to, let me know.
Harald
---------------------
From: niwe@ppvku.ericsson.se (Nils Weinander)
Subject: Inverted pyramids & more
Message-ID: <9410141406.AA03340@ppvku.ericsson.se>
Date: 14 Oct 94 16:06:00 GMT
X-RQ-ID: 6605
Nils Weinander writing
Inverted pyramids:
Peter Metcalfe:
>I always understood the Ignorant architects to hollow a pyramid size hole in
>the ground and then build a hollow step pyramid. Of course the bottom may be
>flattened to produce a rink. The sides are supported by the ground. very
>stable.
That's how I visualized it too, but on the other hand:
Joerg:
>Imagine an Ignorance acropolis: lots of squarish blocks standing up,
>creating a more forbidding version of modern metropoles with their
>square block habitation ghettos, all sloping down on the inside
>...
>Connect these blocks with random
>bridges and stairways, and you get a nightmarish version of Fritz Lang's
>Metropolis.
This image is superb. I will definitely use it in combination with above:
the big i-pyramids are dug into the ground, but all major buildings have
smaller i-pyramids on the roof.
If Glorantha was a more technically advanced world I would add interiors
like Piranesi's Carceri d'Invenzione.
_____
Alex on graphics formats:
>Best for many, and certainly for bandwidth, would be JPEG.
JPEG is probably OK. Most important is to avoid PS.
_____
Esrolia:
Mike Dickison:
>So what do people think of all this? Corrections, extrapolations or just
>good ideas gratefully received. How does this fit with your personal vision
>of Esrolia?
I liked it a lot. I think this is one of the most useful things I have seen
on the daily.
>Birds are uncommon, and
>regarded as a pest to be exterminated with egg-eating snakes.
Why? earth and sky aren't enemies.
_____
Slarges:
Why are the lesser slarges hostile to humans? I thought there was room
for a lot of people on the fertile Pamaltelan plains, so there should be
some deeper reason than just scarcity of resources.
_____
/Nils W
---------------------
From: joe@sartar.toppoint.de (Joerg Baumgartner)
Subject: Moon over Pavis
Message-ID:
Date: 14 Oct 94 18:25:57 GMT
X-RQ-ID: 6606
A short reminiscence on how the question arose again:
The Cover of SiP shows representatives of Pavis meeting the Coders
who apparently disembark on top of the Pavis Temple in New Pavis.
Well, look at the aerial view of New Pavis (back cover of RoC), and
compare it with the Rubble map. You'll find that the SIP cover looks
almost in the same direction as the aerial view. This direction is
approximately east.
Thus, whether the moon is visible from Pavis (as I think it is) or not,
it couldn't possibly visible on the SiP cover. Nor on any other of the
Renaissance covers (SC looks northeast, RoC southeast). From Pavis, the
Moon would be visible above the Nine Good Giant Mountains, if viewed
from before the guild hall, above Riverside.
--
-- Joerg Baumgartner joe@sartar.toppoint.de
---------------------
From: joe@sartar.toppoint.de (Joerg Baumgartner)
Subject: Mostali and Presence
Message-ID:
Date: 14 Oct 94 18:44:44 GMT
X-RQ-ID: 6607
Paul Reilly in X-RQ-ID: 6591
> Paul here. I've addressed the issue of the Mostali before. I think that
> non-apostate, unbroken Mostali DON'T have what we think of as normal human
> consciousness, instead they are much more "automatic".
I wonder how this would be expressed in PDP personality traits. Do all
non-individualist dwarfs have the ideal traits of their caste (as they
sart out, later remain within say 15% of these traits? Or do they start
out with an undeveloped personality, like dragonewts? I like the ideal
traits better, giving all dwarfs an Energetic 20 (100%), for instance.
> They have Presence
> INSTEAD OF Power. Every "standard" dwarf can do the same sort of tricks
> with magic that a Human master sorcerer can accomplish only after years of
> study.
[...]
> They are running on autopilot. A Wizard who got to sit down and analyze
> a Mostali worker by watching him with Mystic Vision for many years might
> eventually realize that the Mostali was more of a Living Tool (like a Staff)
> than a real person.
> A Mostali who wakes into "personhood" (becomes broken) will lose some of
> his magical ability and gain free will in exchange. Is this a good trade or
> a poor one? You be the judge.
Where would you start to call a dwarf broken?
From what you said above, an Individualist dwarf might develop a
personality the same way a human sorcerer develops his Presence: slowly,
one step at a time, he transforms part of his Presence into POW. Thus
Individualist dwarves become more alife than non-heretic Mostali.
An Apostate would all of a sudden transform all of his Presence into
POW. Since this cuts him from the most practical applications of his
sorcery, he is likely to change his magic for some cultic magic. Since
aging has become a serious threat, I doubt many apostate dwarves would
go to God Forgot or other atheist sorcerers and undergo a long and
tedious apprenticehood.
What would follow of this for the Third Eye Blue sorcerers? Don't they
use any vessel techniques, or did they develop a parallel to the
Kingdom of Logic method?
I liked the Vampire explanation.
--
-- Joerg Baumgartner joe@sartar.toppoint.de
---------------------
From: joe@sartar.toppoint.de (Joerg Baumgartner)
Subject: Griffin Island/Mountain
Message-ID:
Date: 14 Oct 94 18:52:23 GMT
X-RQ-ID: 6608
Paul Pofandt asked in X-RQ-ID: 6594 about the differences between
RQ3 Griffin Island and RQ2 Griffin Mountain.
Apart from rules system changes, the main difference is that lots of
Glorantha references have disappeared from GI. Playability has been
improved in Griffin Island with all the nifty hand-outs, too bad the
background was so maltreated.
Perhaps it is easier to recount the parts which haven't changed:
The Citadels haven't changed much except in name, at least in map
lay-out:
Surlt -> Trilus
Ockles -> Elkoi
Nidik -> Dykene
Soldier Port in GM is Soldier Ferry, in the woods between
Balazar in the southeast and Holay and Imther to the west, on a major
river flowing into the elf sea. This settlement guards one of the few
routes into Votankiland/Balazar. It wasn't detailed in Griffin
Mountain, so the info might be used. Maugre could be a renegade
Agimori from Prax...
The map of Griffin Island still is reminiscent of Balazar:
- the Fire Mountains to the south would be the troll and dwarf
inhabited Rockwoods,
- Ostankach Bay would be the Elf Sea
- the Dwarf Mountains (actually Greatway in GM) wold correspond to the
position of the flank of the Rockwoods south of Gonn Orta's Pass,
reaching into Votankiland/Balazar.
- the Zutchko hills would be the Brothers and Bear Hills dividing the
Elder Wilds from Balazar
- the Mosgarni hills would be the troll hills in the Elder Wilds.
- the forests woud cover the foothills of the Rockwoods and the area
surrounding the Elf Sea. All of Balazar lies south of the Elf Sea.
What has changed most are some of the inhabitants, and the maps.
The Wild Lands of Griffin Island correspond to the Elder Wilds.
Generally speaking: there are neither orcs nor slarges in Balazar
and the Elder Wilds. The slarges have replaced the trolls of the
Elder Wilds as well as wandering bands from Dagori Inkarth - these
didn't make it into any of the troll supplements either, which is a
pity.
Also lost is Gonn Orta's castle in the Rockwoods southeast of the
Elder Wilds.
A lot of outsiders in Griffin Island come from familiar places in
Dragon Pass and the Holy Country - Bluebird, the daughter of the
sheriff of Apple Lane in one of the orlanthi bands, etc.
Ockles has undergone a change close to rape - Elkoi was the westernmost
of the Balazaring citadels, and had been conquered by King Phargentes
of Tarsh after he grew fed up with the constant raids on his land
staged by the citadel's ruling family, the Vizkinni clan. The role of
the Lunar Provincial Army has been taken by the Redeye worshipping
orcs. Well, we know that the Lunars are scum, but that bad?
This affects most of the major characters of that citadel. In general,
the following cult change scheme can be used:
Hilme -> "Yelmalio" (I'd actually use the cult write-up as in Griffin
Island, to allow for the differences to the Sun County variant of the
cult.)
Aeolus -> Orlanth (Adventurous)
Redeye -> Seven Mothers
Megaera -> Jakaleel the Witch, or Cacodemon (in case of the ogres).
Grandmother Sky -> Hearth Mother
The Hunter is Found-child.
Votank is the founder deity, and son of Hearth Mother and Found-child.
Zutchko -> Brother Dog
Elf and dwarf deities are obvious...
Zar is the hero Balazar, who came into the land now named after him
around 1070 ST, married the hunting nymph Rigtaina, the closest
Votankiland had to a Land Goddess, and had three children from her.
He built two citadels for his sons, Trilus and Dykene, and then
departed with his Sun-worshipping warriors to join the True Golden
Horde. Needless to say they didn't return (alife).
The Orc war translates as the Lunar counter-invasion from Tarsh.
Some remnants of Griffin Mountain can be seen in Trollpak - mention of
Joh Mith and the Votanki in the Dagori Inkarth paragraphs. Joh Mith
uses Wyrm's High Pass across the Rockwoods, northwest of the Throne.
--
-- Joerg Baumgartner joe@sartar.toppoint.de
---------------------
From: 100270.337@compuserve.com (Nick Brooke)
Subject: Esrolia
Message-ID: <941014191602_100270.337_BHL78-3@CompuServe.COM>
Date: 14 Oct 94 19:16:02 GMT
X-RQ-ID: 6609
_____________
Mike Dickison's Esrolian panorama included:
> Teams of slaves digging foundations are a common sight along the street.
Now, this brought something to mind, which ties in with some other recent
thoughts. If Esrolia is an Earth-based society, it mythically pre-dates the
Solar- and Storm-based cultures we are more familiar with. Mythology can
mirror social reality, as we all know: "Freedom" is a peculiarly Orlanthi
concept (in some ways), while "Dominance" or "Mastery" (or whatever) is
peculiarly Solar. I think Esrolia comes *before* these two. The Esrolians
you see working like slaves are *not* slaves. They are normal Esrolian men
doing what is necessary. They don't think anyone is in authority over them
and making them do this work (Solar / slavery); they don't think they have
any practical alternative or choice in choosing whether or not to do it
(Storm / freedom). They just do it, for the common, communal good of all.
This selfless attitude is one of the things that makes Esrolia such a fine
place to live for everyone and no-one -- at the same time!
====
Nick
====
---------------------
From: ddunham@radiomail.net (David Dunham)
Subject: Griffin Island
Message-ID: <199410142125.AA28401@radiomail.net>
Date: 14 Oct 94 21:25:33 GMT
X-RQ-ID: 6610
Hmm, I seem to be overly literal about those inverted pyramids in the
Kingdom of Ignorance -- I kept thinking you pick up the pyramid and balance
it on its point.
Paul Pofandt wondered about Griffin Island vs Griffin Mountain.
I ran a campaign set on Griffin Island -- which I placed on QuestWorld, so
it was non-Gloranthan.
I ended up deciding that the orcs were really what are on the mainland
called trolls, but had become corrupted by worshipping bad deities and
practicing sorcery. Not that my players met any trolls from the mainland.
But that doesn't really help you much, since you want to put it back in
Glorantha. Well, I'd certainly use all the clans and shamanic bits. You
probably can figure out which citadel is which in Balazar (Trilus, Elkoi,
Dykene).
Griffin Mountain is a huge work, full of great NPCs and encounters. Griffin
Island's strength is its handouts. Unfortunately, none of them would be
usable without serious modification -- you've got to decide what to do with
the orcs. At least many of the NPCs and encounters are still in GI.
---------------------
From: 100116.2616@compuserve.com (David Hall)
Subject: Oh woe is me!
Message-ID: <941014230954_100116.2616_BHG55-1@CompuServe.COM>
Date: 14 Oct 94 23:09:55 GMT
X-RQ-ID: 6611
Joerg writes re Fazzur the Great:
>The reports on her strangulation are news to me. How did Onjur the Poet,
>teh son of Fazzur who later led the Fazzurite faction in Tarsh against
>the Phargentites, react to this disposal of his mother?
>> Don't you just love happy endings?
>How happy, and how long is "ever after" in a land that will be torn
>by civil and external warfare only a couple of years in the future?
>Fazzur is mentioned as the commander of the Tarshite force in 1625,
Damn you! Why spoil it all! Fazzur and the Queen had a chance of happiness,
and now you've smashed those hopes to pieces on the rock of your despicable
logic. I weep for them.
It is now obvious to me. Why do we hear nothing of Fazzur after 1625, and
only hear of his son Onjur after 1631? It is clear now that Fazzur was by
1631 dead, along with his second wife, both brutally murdered at the hands
of his son, Onjur, in vengeance for the death of Onjur's foul and shrewish
mother. The swine! The cad!
Joerg! Why couldn't you let it rest? Why did you have to delve deeper? Why?
Why? Why? Now my hero is dead and I don't know if I can go on...
You murdered him Joerg!! Your merciless logic cut his heart out - and with
it my hopes and dreams of a pure and happy Glorantha.
I'm sorry, I have to go now...
David
---------------------
From: hasni@hogbbs.scol.pa.us (Richard Ohlson)
Subject: Re: RuneQuest Daily, Fri, 14 Oct 1994, part 2
Message-ID:
Date: 14 Oct 94 19:47:58 GMT
X-RQ-ID: 6612
Subject: Divine Intervention?
I ran into a problem a while ago which involved four PC's and bunch of
Lunar soldiers. The soldiers beat them (out numbering and outclassing
them) The PC's got a little lucky and it came down to one PC and two
soldeirs. Everytime a PC went down, he called for a pathetic DI-"Heal
US". The goons tried it too, but nobody had any success. That is, until
the PC took down the second to last guy. He made the standard DI, and
now there were twelve nasty soldiers up and one unlukcy PC. He finally
went the "parry/dodge, make different DI everturn" route, and finally was
successful with a big fat "Get us the hell out of here."
Because of this fiasco (where I had to fudge two specials to normals and
one normal to a miss to make the climax of the scenario a success and not
a blood party), I decided to rethink how I ran DI's.
First of all, I decided that one DI will only get one casting of a spell.
This means, only one heal body, one ressurect, or one teleport.
(Remember that teleport can be stacked so you have four spells going off
on one casting)
Anyhow, has anybody else had this problem? How have you taken care of
it?
Oh, and just becuase I felt bad for the PC's, I decided that the one
exception would be Challana Arroy. I figure that CA probably has a
special divine spell called "Heal ALL" that takes like 10 points of power
and nobody ever gets it, but She can heal up to ten of the CA healers
friends with one DI.
BTW, speaking of Death- what IS the proper way to send a dead Orlanthi
off to the after life? Stick quarters on his eye-lids and bury him? Put
him on a big boat and set it on fire?
I sorta like the burying idea- you might be able to get him ressurected
later on then...
---------------------
From: button@io.com (Captain Button)
Subject: Corflu, HQs, Headhunters, Bless Crops
Message-ID:
Date: 14 Oct 94 19:07:43 GMT
X-RQ-ID: 6613
To show my comtempt for this new upstart god "Time",
I'll post some replies to some digests from last July.
(actually, I'm just lazy :-)
Someone said re: the origin of the name Corflu:
> The Corflu business was an invention of Greg Costikyan, a
> somewhat mad New York City gamer who had mad Corflu
> cultists involved in making books/parchments. He has published
> some fantasy novels, and there was a fantasy board game
> (the name has slipped my mind) published by Avalon
> Hill in which Corflue appeared.
It was _Swords & Sorcery_ published by Simulations
Publications,Inc. (SPI) in 1978. Greg Costikyan is credited for
Game Design/Contributing Development.
S&S was a fantasy wargame with "role-playing" elements. It
was full of puns and silliness. East of Aardvark Wallow and
south of the "Hill of Avalon" lies the land of Ka-Chunk,
dominated by the Temple of the Corflu Cultists, founded by
the immortal Unamit Ahazredit.
In X-RQ-ID: 5008, Alex comments on Sandy's answer to my question
regarding HQing to IFWW :
> I concur with Sandy's
> implicit disagreement with 's suggestion that this is
> an "advanced" quest: I think that as a rule, any quest may be done in a
> "shallow" way, and so on progressively.
You can just call me oop. :-)
Does this mean I can get 6 friends and perform a nano-Lightbringer's
Quest, where we help a blond guy named Elmer break out
of the root cellar I locked him in? :-))
More recent stuff:
Orlanthi Headhunters:
I just noticed in framing story in _Cults of Terror_, after
Halgrim kills Bolthor:
"Bolthor's head-halves we kept atop the main gate at the
capital, so that all might see that Bolthor would never return."
This was in a Lunar dominated Orlanthi Kingdom.
Re: Bless Crops
I am inclined to consider the game rules to be how BC works
for quick and dirty circumstances.
Normally, I would think there would either:
A) Be a big ceremony where the local priestesses, supported by most
all local initiates and laymembers combine their BC spells into one
furshluginer Bless Crops spell that effects the whole village and/or
the steads of everyone attending. Perhaps everyone brings a soil
sample to the temple, which you then sprinkle back onto your fields?
B) A procession where the above all go round to each farm
and hold a ceremony there. If you want your farm on the list
better show up and support the group at the other farms too.
C) Why don't the farmers cast their own BC spells? If you're
a proper farmer, wouldn't you (or someone in your family) be an
initiate of a suitable cult? So cast it as a one-use spell.
Yes, that's a waste of good POW if you plan to be a Rune level
someday, but most people don't. As long as you manage to get
at least 1 successful POW gain roll per year, you're breaking
even. You wanna eat this Dark Season or not?
--
- Captain Button -- button@io.com
---------------------