Bell Digest v941020p1

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To: RuneQuest@Glorantha.Holland.Sun.COM (Daily automated RQ-Digest)
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Subject: RuneQuest Daily, Thu, 20 Oct 1994, part 1
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X-RQ-ID: Intro

This is the RuneQuest Daily Bulletin, a mailing list on
the subjects of Avalon Hill's RPG and Greg Stafford's 
world of Glorantha.  It is sent out once per day in digest

More details on the RuneQuest Daily and Digest can be found
after the last message in this digest.

X-RQ-ID: index

6658: joe = (Joerg Baumgartner)
 - Re: Aeolian Heresy, and Fazzur as truly tragic hero
 - Lewis on Grue
6660: pyspas = (Paul Snow)
 - Spirit Magic: What's going on?
6661: gerry = (Gerard Martin)
 - Re: Resurrection
6662: dave_cordes = (Dave Cordes)
 - Illuminated Posters
6663: igorlick = (ian i. gorlick)
 - Esrolian society
6664: sandyp = (Sandy Petersen)
 - Re: howdy
6665: PMichaels =
 - Trickster
6666: 100116.2616 = (David Hall)
 - Les Dieux Nomades
6667: 100270.337 = (Nick Brooke)
 - Rosy
6668: loren = (Loren Miller)
 - Rules: GOONQUEST 1
6669: ddunham = (David Dunham)
 - Tales of Ralios


Subject: Lewis on Grue
Message-ID: <9410190936.AA25251@Sun.COM>
Date: 19 Oct 94 09:34:00 GMT
X-RQ-ID: 6659

Hi Everyone
	I was dusting off some old files and came across a file I wrote a while ago.  The subject matter is Grue detailing the various types and development 
that occurs over time.  For those of you who do not realize it GRUE == ALIEN.  
Consequently I've shamelessly ripped off ideas from the books and films (but 
not the RPG).  The files also includes the stats of the (worker) grue from the 
Gloranthan bestiary with only minor mods to bring it in line with my ideas.  

	If people are interested I will post it to the digest (its 260 lines), 
I will however delete the worker grue bit unless Sandy is happy to leave it 
in since he is the original author and Creator/Ripper Off of the species...



From: (Paul Snow)
Subject: Spirit Magic: What's going on?
Date: 19 Oct 94 12:07:49 GMT
X-RQ-ID: 6660

Spirit Magic
	What happens when you learn a spirit magic spell?  I was under the 
impression that once you beat a spirit in spirit combat you can call on 
it again to work for you.  My GM informs me that when I beat a spirit in 
combat it then teaches me how to do something and that is what I take 
away from the encounter. How do these different ideas work in practice?
	Under the first, if in combat you call upon your Bladesharp spirit 
then it dances up and down your sword trying to wound your opponent. If 
you call upon a Heal spirit it licks the wound clean and holds it 
together. etc. If you cast Ploughsharp it sits at the point of the Plough 
scrabbling soil out of its path.

	Under the second (official ?) version then you call upon a piece of 
knowledge that you may not be able to remember and if you recall it you 
fight better. This can be seen as calling upon some extra hidden reserve 
( I'm sure Sandy wrote about people getting Spirit Magic like effects in 
the real world by mental training) but I rather like my vision of it as 

How do you imagine spirit magic to work?

Paul "Interested in Glorantha - Knows v. little about RQ" Snow


From: (Gerard Martin)
Subject: Re: Resurrection
Message-ID: <>
Date: 26 Mar 92 19:38:06 GMT
X-RQ-ID: 6661

Dave Cordes :
> >Colin Watson:

> >I tend to adhere to the idea that newly-dead spirits retain their STR, CON
> >and DEX for a while after death (though these characteristics are fairly
> >useless in the spirit-world and tend to dissolve in a matter of days). If
> >you recovered the spirit quickly enough and used a 5-POW binding
> >enchantment on the body (to bind the pseudo-ghost's INT POW DEX STR and
> >CON) I think you'd essentially restore the person's life.

I disagree with you here Colin because I believe spirits only possess INT
and POW.  The characteristics of STR CON and DEX are inherently physical
attributes of the body and therefore are left behind when the spirit leaves.

> ______________
> X-RQ-ID: 6489  Joerg Baumgartner:
> >Shamans are known to travel into the border zone between life and death 
> >to guide spirits back to their bodies. They do so in case of diseases 
> >or curses which cause a soul to leave the body, and probably an 
> >untimely death by violence or accidents will send the unprepared spirit 
> >into this region, too. If the body left by the spirit still (or again) 
> >is inhabitable, I think the shaman ought to be able to guide the spirit 
> >back and force it into the mundane plane again. While I think that some 
> >permanent POW loss ought to be involved, I don't feel there should be a 
> >binding matrix enchantment as a component. Maybe this POW is used to 
> >seal the leak through which the spirit escaped into the Otherworld.
> I like this idea.  It solves my previous problems with Colin's solution.  I
> don't need a Bind Elmer's (or whoever) Spirit Spell.  As to the loss of PWR
> needed to bind the spirit back into the body.  How about using Colin's
> suggestion of 5 PWR, one each for INT, PWR, DEX, STR, and CON?  
I also like Joerg's idea which is similar to the way in which I play.  Just
to give you a quick run down :

	The shaman requires the body to be fully healed and painted with a
harmony rune.  After death the body still resonates with the essence of the
departed spirit.  Using this resonance as a guide the shaman travels into
the border zone between life and death and tracks down the spirit (Track
Resonating Spirit ;)  After dealing with any random encounters and finding
the spirit, the shaman offers the spirit the oportunity of returning to
life in its former body.  If unwilling the shaman has the option of
stopping here or defeating the spirit in spirit combat.  The shaman guides
the spirit back to the body and re-establishes the link between them by
giving up three points of POW.

Using the RQ rules for travel in the spirit plane the shaman searches for
the lost spirit by rolling on the random encounters table and treating any
roll of ghost as the lost spirit.

The harmony rune is used as a focus for the 3 POW and to ease the joining
of spirit and body. 

optional: The ceremony skill may be used as a percentage to gain the "scent" of
the lingering essence. 
 Thomas Moffatt 

    c/o	Gerry.
 Gerard Martin - (Private Node)


From: (Dave Cordes)
Subject: Illuminated Posters
Message-ID: <9410191521.AA01149@Sun.COM>
Date: 19 Oct 94 00:24:10 GMT
X-RQ-ID: 6662

CL QM-SMTP gw                 Illuminated Posters
X-RQ-ID: 6657   David Dunham  :

>>I'd better be careful, or next I'll be agreeing with Nick and Peter.

>Then you'd be Illuminated, since they never agree with each other...

Hey!  One of the powers of an illuminate is to Ignore Cult Restrictions. 
Cool.   Then I could stop putting Subject Lines on my postings. 

Unfortunately I'm terrible at riddles.  



From: (ian i. gorlick)
Subject: Esrolian society
Message-ID: <>
Date: 19 Oct 94 08:07:00 GMT
X-RQ-ID: 6663

The recent posts about Esrolian culture and society have been very interesting. 
I like Nick's sort-of-egyptian flavour to the place. I do feel that the society 
still needs a couple extra mechanisms to maintain the matriarchal structure. 

The suggestion that only females can own slaves or hold an indenture gives the 
females a large economic advantage. I would extend this by insisting that only 
women can own land, or inherit title to use land if the land is held communally.

I would also include some magical/religious mechanisms that help convince the 
men of the rightness of female dominated society. I suggest that all citizens of 
the country are required to be initiated into the cult of Esrola/Ernalda (there 
may be a special category of initiation for males that differs from females). 
Any adult resident of the country who is not an initiate is subject to immediate 
enslavement. (Special visitor's visas are available for foreigners, but make 
sure you leave the country before it expires.) All  other local cults tolerate 
dual membership, even Humakt allows this extra initiation into the earth cult. 
This situation will leave the male population of the county either subject to 
the cult spirits of reprisal or to enslavement. The cult spirits of reprisal 
work in subtle ways to ensure that male initiates LIKE their subservient 
position. The spirits work through the powers of earth and fertility. A male 
being targetted by the spirits finds that his sex life is no fun, he has trouble 
getting and maintaining an erection and his orgasms are much less intense. He 
also finds that his food (products of the earth) is tasteless no matter how much 
spice is added. Beer won't make him merry, it just exercises his kidneys. Get 
the picture? Of course, as soon as he reforms his behaviour life becomes much 
more fun. The cult probably has spirits of reconciliation which actually improve 
things above their normal state to reinforce how much nicer life is when you 
behave properly.

I want to create a female cult that works through subtler persuasion and 
reconciliation as opposed to the standard male cults where spirits of reprisal 
beat on the miscreant until he repents. 


About the tragic saga of Fazzur and his Esrolian love....

Bravo! Bravo!  
Everyone contributing take a bow!
This is definitely a three-hanky story. 


From: (Sandy Petersen)
Subject: Re: howdy
Message-ID: <>
Date: 19 Oct 94 06:00:05 GMT
X-RQ-ID: 6664

Paul Reilly:
>I play that the Sacred Time rituals may attract opponents, who  
>manifest in a very real way.
	The opponents, of course, which may be chaos monsters, are  
simply re-enacting their _own_ sacred time. In addition, most Sacred  
Time rituals that include opponents doubtless include special  
opponents just for this task. For instance, a person made up to be  
Orlanth Traitorous no doubt appears at the Yelm rituals and does a  
ritual assault, then repentance, bringing Yelm back from his sleep. 

	In Pamaltela, every Sacred Time a Sikkanos outlaw approaches  
the local Pamalt chieftain and must ask him for a task. If the task  
is impossible, the outlaw band instead must refrain from attacking or  
robbing anyone from that tribe for the rest of the year. Normally,  
the chieftain assigns something quite impossible (one tradition is to  
ask for "a rock from Enmal"). 


From: (David Hall)
Subject: Les Dieux Nomades
Message-ID: <941019205912_100116.2616_BHG35-1@CompuServe.COM>
Date: 19 Oct 94 20:59:12 GMT
X-RQ-ID: 6666

Jerome Caille asks:

>Have you a beta version or is it released yet?

It's a final production copy. I'm not sure if it's been released yet - it 
must be soon. 

Greg Fried asked me to post the address of Oriflam. It is:

132 rue de Marly,
57 158 Montigny-les-Metz

I'm not sure if they do mail order. Perhaps Jerome can suggest a good shop 
in Paris that will do mail order? I once got some RQ supplements and copies 
of Tatou from L'Oeuf Cube, who were very helpful and tolerant! 

I wonder, does anybody know if Oriflam stuff gets over to shops in 
French-speaking Canada? 

Jerome also asks:
>Do you know if it's possible to join the two boards in one game?

Almost. They do just about match (though the hexes are slightly different 
sizes). But only about half of the edge of each map is common. We need a 
Dagori Inkarth map next. 

I just noticed that the original Chaosium Dragon Pass map does match up 
with the RQ2 Trollpak map and with the Chaosium Nomad Gods map. However, 
the Dagori Inkarth map doesn't match the Nomad Gods map. Ho hum. 




From: (Nick Brooke)
Subject: Rosy
Message-ID: <941019235426_100270.337_BHL54-2@CompuServe.COM>
Date: 19 Oct 94 23:54:26 GMT
X-RQ-ID: 6667


> Mike
> I loved the image of Lunars seeing the World through ROSE TINTED

Cf. Chris Gidlow's "Cult of Glamour" in Tales #12.


>> I'd better be careful, or next I'll be agreeing with Nick and Peter.

> Then you'd be Illuminated, since they never agree with each other...

Depends on which Peter. Some of them are less foolish than others.



From: (Joerg Baumgartner)
Subject: Re: Aeolian Heresy, and Fazzur as truly tragic hero
Date: 19 Oct 94 09:01:34 GMT
X-RQ-ID: 6658

David Hall basks in the light of the Red Moon in X-RQ-ID: 6639

The apparent Lunar bias of this scholar makes his claims for mental 
unadjustment somewhat untrustworthy (as if being a Lunar simp wouldn't 

> A Nest of Vipers:

> Of course they called Onjur a Poet to be polite. His was in fact mad, 
> completely mad.

A good Loonie?

> Driven insane by his unnatural lusts for his mother, and 
> his consuming desire to avenge her death.

Evil Lunar propaganda, as can be found elsewhere.

> But perhaps the final proof of Onjur's madness came in 1631. Would else but 
> a madman would ally himself with the barbarian war-leader Argrath 
> Demonspawn? 

This passage truly rips off the mask of the innocent, gentle guise of the 
editor of TotRM!

> I believe the real tragedy is that Fazzur was innocent of any crime except 
> love. I believe that it was the Queen who killed his wife and presented it 
> to Fazzur as a fait accompli (strangulation is the traditional method of 
> ritual Esrolian execution). What could Fazzur do? The damage was already 
> done and he loved her...

> Are you satisfied Joerg? This cesspit is of your making!! Do you weep for 
> Fazzur?

Of my making? You were the one who came up with the strangulation of his 
first wife, you were the one who didn't allow them a peaceful retirement 
somewhere outside of Tarsh. I was just forced by your foul annoncement 
of Fazzur's murder to reconcile the facts with Onjur Fazzursson's 
honourable Orlanthi nature. And what happens? You declare this epitome 
of Tarshite manhood a Lunatic only because he opposes the Lunar 
depredations of Moirades and Pharandros! Phie!

> The Aeolian Church of Heortland

> History

> The history of our church begins with the Lightbringer's Quest when 
> Orlanth, Creator and Invisible God created the world with the Great 
> Compromise and with Time. Afterwards his son Malkion, Hrestol the First 
> Prophet, and the Lightbringer Saints carried his worship across the world. 

Malkion, son of Aerlit...

Do you believe that the Hendriki identify Aerlit with Orlanth, or is 
this "son of" business only a metaphoric expression of kinship?

Since *rl*t is very similar to all the other names of the local Orlanths 
(Worlath, Orlando, Orlantio, what was Nick's Wenelian version?), an 
actual father-son relation is not impossible.

> Harmast recognized Arkat as Humaktsson, and taught him the Orlanthi ways of 
> Dragon Pass. Arkat recognized the true origin of both ways and spread this 
> amongst his followers: Orlanth and the Invisible God were one in the same 
> and always had been. 

This is the core of the Aeolian creed.

> However, Arkat was defeated twice, both times by the Sun worshippers of the 
> Pelorian lowlands. Many of his followers despaired, thinking that Arkat had 
> somehow miscalculated or offended Orlanth.

Where and when was it that Arkat was defeated by the lowland Pelorians? 
While I haven't seen the Arkat's Saga, I think that such victories would 
have left their traces in Dara Happan history. A military feat like 
winning a decisive victory over the foe of the Bright Lord of Dorastor 
certainly would have found its way into the Elmexdros rolls (the military 
history of Dara Happa, in DHBE).

> Then came another Hero to Arkat, 
> his name was Kwaratch Kang, and he was a troll from the Castle of Lead. 
> Kwaratch taught Arkat the ways of the Trolls and from him Arkat learnt of 
> yet another aspect of Orlanth the Creator, the missing aspect that would 
> give him victory over Chaos. With this knowledge Arkat was able to defeat 
> Gbaji in Dorastor, and thus was Chaos forced back for another Age. 

I'm not so sure an Aeolian would view it this way...

I like to interpret Arkat's troll escapade as a very elaborate version 
of the Sandals of Darkness quest - creep into the troll stronghold and 
steal a power from them, and break a few legs or heads while doing so...

> Many people think that Arkat betrayed the secrets of the Lightbringers and 
> Solace & Joy when he embraced the forces of Darkness to destroy Chaos. But 
> the truth is that he discovered deeper truths of the Invisible God. 

As long as we keep in mind that Arkat assumed human form again after 
slaying Gbaji, and returned to the creed of Orlanth and Malkion, as 
Aeol reported. The Black Arkati troll friends don't understand this and 
keep trollhood as their false ideal, and that is why their souls are 

> Arkat later founded and ruled a great Dark Empire in Ralios which 
> worshipped Orlanth in the same way that he had been worshipped at the 
> beginning of time.

As opposed to Harmast's mode of worship, which dominated Dragon Pass, 
Peloria and the backwater regions of Ralios?

> He also set his followers to guard all of the places on 
> the heroplane and in the underworld where Chaos might seep in again. 

A guard which was broken or bypassed by the God Learners...

> Saint Aeol was a companion of Harmast, and then Arkat, and when he returned 
> home from Arkat's Dark Empire he brought with him Arkat's knowledge and 
> taught it to us. Now that the Dark Empire is no more we are the last people 
> who follow the correct form of worship according to Arkat. 

Saint Aeol: I said this before... I feel that "Aeol" is a nom-de-guerre 
rather than an actual name, maybe analogous to the Saulus -> Paulus 
change. There has been an Aeolian school of Sorcery among the ancient 
elemental schools of sorcery, which I believe to exist in Sog City to 
this date. (As part of the college of alchemy?)

> In the Third Age Chaos has returned in the guise of the Red Goddess and the 
> Red Emperor. We must fight her and seek a new Liberator who will unite the 
> forces of the West, the Orlanthi, and the Trolls, in the correct worship of 
> the Creator. Only in this way can Chaos be defeated!

Trolls and Kitori aren't really what the Aeolians would regard as 
potential allies, as I see them.

And the Lunar threat is not that immediate to the Aeolians - their one 
encounter with Fazzur's expeditionary force in 1605 ST (during the 
Building Wall battle) didn't really touch their lands, and after this 
trouble the Rokari take-over and the Kingdom of Malkonwal were foremost 
in their mind, I'd guess. The Lunar Army under Fazzur came almost as 
liberators in 1621, and given Fazzur's preoccupation with Esrolia wouldn't 
have been in the focus of the magical attention as long as Whitewall 
holds out. The conservative Brian will need some time to gain their 
trust and help, and it will be Tatius who finally makes the Aeolians 
fervent supporters of the Volsaxi king: Tatius, as a Dara Happan Yelmite, 
will have no understanding about the gentle methods of treating Theyalans, 
and will tax and regulate them rigorously, as if they were Lodrilite 
or Dendaran peasants.

There is a new liberator on the horizon, though...

--  Joerg Baumgartner