Bell Digest v941112p1

From: RuneQuest-Request@Glorantha.Holland.Sun.COM (RQ Digest Maintainer)
To: RuneQuest@Glorantha.Holland.Sun.COM (Daily automated RQ-Digest)
Reply-To: RuneQuest@Glorantha.Holland.Sun.COM (RuneQuest Daily)
Subject: RuneQuest Daily, Sat, 12 Nov 1994, part 1
Sender: Henk.Langeveld@Holland.Sun.COM
Content-Return: Prohibited
Precedence: junk

X-RQ-ID: Intro

This is the RuneQuest Daily Bulletin, a mailing list on
the subjects of Avalon Hill's RPG and Greg Stafford's 
world of Glorantha.  It is sent out once per day in digest
format.

More details on the RuneQuest Daily and Digest can be found
after the last message in this digest.

X-RQ-ID: index

6890: SMITHH = (Harald Smith 617 724-9843)
 - charg and mines
6891: watson = (Colin Watson)
 - Spirits
6892: yfcw29 = yfcw29@castle.edinburgh.ac.uk
 - Immortality, Charg, spirits & more.
6893: DevinC = DevinC@aol.com
 - Re: RuneQuest Daily, Fri, 11 Nov 1994, part 1
6894: jonas.schiott = (Jonas Schiott)
 - Re: Clans and Bloodlines
6895: 100270.337 = (Nick Brooke)
 - Cultural Diversity
6896: pheasant = (Nick Eden)
 - Have I asked this before?
6897: 100102.3001 = (Peter J. Whitelaw)
 - RQ Adventures
6898: sandyp = (Sandy Petersen)
 - Re: now what?
6899: ddunham = (David Dunham)
 - Bloodlines

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From: SMITHH@A1.MGH.HARVARD.EDU (Harald Smith 617 724-9843)
Subject: charg and mines
Message-ID: <01HJCJ6K68AMS9V7G3@MR.MGH.HARVARD.EDU>
Date: 11 Nov 94 03:54:00 GMT
X-RQ-ID: 6890

Hi all--

Returning from close encounters with gators, dolphins, and salt marsh 
birds, I've been racing my way through the buildup of dailies.

I think Peter Metcalfe has become the Flesh Man of the RQ Daily with his 
astonishing insights into the future released from Charg.  I couldn't stop 
laughing either, so maybe he's just our Trickster instead?  Luckily the 
great cataclysm bypassed Imther in the process, again revealing the 
strength of the local deities (or are they instead crushed by a chunk of 
falling moon rock?).

- Erik in x-rq-id 6838 asks about human mines and where they are.

Imther is one source of metal, primarily copper and bronze.  This is a 
state controlled monopoly (i.e. the king owns the mines) and much of the 
metal passes on to the Lunar Empire as the annual tribute payment to the 
Provincial Government.  I picture that the bulk of this is used for the 
Provincial Army's manufacture of arms and armor.  I recently concluded one 
series of scenarios centered on one of the major Imtherian mines following 
a devasting earthquake which threatened the access to the whole area.

As for other sources of metal, I would think the following are likely or 
possible:

Copper Mountains (in Aggar)--source of copper and possible bronze
Skyreach Mountains (borders Maniria and Grazelands)--source of gold and 
near Esrolia, copper 
Hydra Hills (borders Tarsh)--source of silver and tin (there must be some 
reason to venture in, though the costs can be high)
Storm Mountains (borders Heortland)--source of silver, tin, and bronze 
(Richard the Tiger-hearted probably had some economic motive for his 
conquest)

Anyone else have thoughts on this?

Harald



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From: watson@csd.abdn.ac.uk (Colin Watson)
Subject: Spirits
Message-ID: <199411111520.PAA03092@pelican.csd.abdn.ac.uk>
Date: 11 Nov 94 15:20:19 GMT
X-RQ-ID: 6891

_____
Sandy:
> 	Tragically, here I must take issue with Colin. I believe that  
> the use you can make of spirits is NOT part of their binding  
> enchantment, and that all binding enchantments are much the same.
[...]
> >The current rules imply that the use of MP/INT/spells is a peculiar  
> >quirk of the spirit itself which only manifests when the spirit is  
> >bound.
> 	In the first place, I see no reason why the use of Power and  
> Intellect spirits "only manifests when they're bound". My shamans use  
> them all the time, including them in their fetch.

Ok, try: INT/MP use is a peculiar quirk of the spirit itself which only
manifests when the spirit is bound or in a fetch...
                                   -------------
The point I was making is that its not something the spirits can do naturally
(voluntarily) nor when controlled by a control spell. Their INT/MP are
apparently only available when they're held against their will; and then only
for specific spirits (namely Intellect spirits for INT; Power spirits for MP).

Now, I'm prepared to completely reverse my view if Power spirits 'in the wild'
habitually donate their MP to passers-by; or Intellect spirits occasionally
latch-on to individuals increasing their INT (for some symbiotic reason?). And
it would logically follow that they could be forced to do the same if they're
controlled by a suitable spell (in direct contradiction to the guidelines
in the creatures' descriptions, but what the hell).

I genuinely think this is a workable idea.

> Instead, Intellect spirits "absorb" such a spell, incorporating it into
> their mind. Then they transport it back to the source of such magic,

Neat idea.

_____
Simon:
> I don't see it as contrived at all. It seems perfectly natural to me that
> certain spirits will have certain specific spells, powers or attributes
> dependent on their nature.

Yeah, but how come some of these abilities only manifest when the spirit is
bound if it's not a function of the binding?

>Perhaps those who follow the horned man follow a
>naturalistic path, conserving the spiritual environment, while those
>who follow the bad man are psychic exploiters and polluters.

Any kind of Binding is pretty unfriendly at least as far as the
spirit in question is concerned.  But I don't see any magician giving up
this method on grounds of Political Correctness ;)

It's more a question of whether you exploit and pollute for your own gain
or for the benefit of your community.

___
CW.

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From: yfcw29@castle.edinburgh.ac.uk
Subject: Immortality, Charg, spirits & more.
Message-ID: <9411111621.aa07905@uk.ac.ed.castle>
Date: 11 Nov 94 16:21:36 GMT
X-RQ-ID: 6892

David Gadbois (I think) said :

> can change the mundane one, too.  For example, one could heroquest to
> prevent Grandfather Mortal from getting the first taste of Death; if you
> were successful, no one would die anymore.

Wellll, you might become immortal, not sure about anyone else though. Also,
you could realy screw it up, with horrendous consequences. BTW, The
Brithini must have diverged from the rest of humanity before the
Grandfather Mortal slaying, and never have been exposed to any of
Eurmal's copies. Never though of that.

>Peter Metcalfe: An Important Announcement on Chargg:

Chuckle.

Also, all the shamans suddenly get confused about what spirits are and
how their spells work anyway, causing widespread failiure of all
spirit magic. All the fetches in Glorantha immediately go on strike
for better working conditions.


Hey everyone, I just got a usefull e-mail about RQ Adventures issue 4,
I'll post it 5 times every day for the next 3 weeks to make sure
everyone gets it.


Sandy Petersen says :

> ...I play that reducing a spirit to 10 points less than your own MPs  
>counts as a "win" for purposes of binding, possessing, and even  
>covertly possessing the victim, if a Power spirit was very strong it  
>could use this ability in an interesting way.

Makes a lot of sense. I'll moot it with our group this w/end. Same goes
for the rest of your post. We realy do need a decent supplement for
shamans, and magic in general.


Last weekend I posted my ideas about the God Learners, RQ Sight, the
nature and meaning of Heroquests and reality in Glorantha. That very
day, Glorantha's hard disk overflows and everything is apparently lost.
Coincidence? Divine Intervention? The wyrd of the Fates? If I post it
again, what are the chances that Henk's computer will explode with divine
wrath? How common are power surges in Holland?

I'll be at the Immaculate Convention in London on Sunday. I can't find my
RQ Daily badge, but I'll be wearing the Hellcrack Bungee Jumping club one.

Simon Hibbs

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From: DevinC@aol.com
Subject: Re: RuneQuest Daily, Fri, 11 Nov 1994, part 1
Message-ID: <941111125543_5522846@aol.com>
Date: 11 Nov 94 07:55:46 GMT
X-RQ-ID: 6893

Devin here:

Peter postulates on Chargg:

"Hope this Helps :)

--Peter Metcalfe"

You forgot......and then, the dreaded void, known as Avalon Hill, shall
pierce the boundaries of Glorantha, weakened by all of these actions, it the
void will consume all........

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From: jonas.schiott@vinga.hum.gu.se (Jonas Schiott)
Subject: Re: Clans and Bloodlines
Message-ID: <9411111816.AA01864@vinga.hum.gu.se>
Date: 12 Nov 94 03:17:20 GMT
X-RQ-ID: 6894

Michael Hitchens:

>I know KoS has many deliberate contradictions in it, but 
>given that these quotes all come from the same document (Report on the 
>Orlanthi), I do not think this one is intentional.

Probably not. I _hope_ not.

>Has Greg ever clarified this?  Sandy?

Not to my knowledge.

>So can you marry 
>someone of your clan who is not of your bloodline?

I've discussed this before with people on this list, and the consensus
seems to be in favor of clan exogamity (meaning the answer to your question
is NO). I was the only dissenter - I think exogamity of such large groups
of people as Orlanthi clans is a bad joke dreamed up by some bored
ethnologist...
In any case, Orlanthi in the East Wilds stick with bloodline exogamity
(it's our campaign, we can do what we like).
Oh, and BTW, the "what my father told me" on Orlanthi implies  (the bit
about barn dances) that marriages within a clan are normal. I know, this is
an older source... ;-)

(      Jonas Schiott                                   )
(      Institutionen for Ide- och lardomshistoria      )
(      Goteborgs Universitet                           )


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From: 100270.337@compuserve.com (Nick Brooke)
Subject: Cultural Diversity
Message-ID: <941111175939_100270.337_BHL51-1@CompuServe.COM>
Date: 11 Nov 94 17:59:40 GMT
X-RQ-ID: 6895

___________
Jonas asks:

> Isn't it sort of strange that _Orlanth_ is found in more-or-less the
> same shapes and flavors all over Genertela, while poor Ernalda has to
> see herself supplanted by various local bimbos?

It would be strange if only the Earth Mother's worship varied. That's why some
of us assume "Orlanth", too, varies between regions of the Barbarian Belt. We
aren't trying to have our cake and eat it; we're just trying to create more
differences between Sartar and (say) Brolia. "OK, so there's no Lightbringers or
Kings or Tribes... but at least the world-wide Cult of Orlanth (tm) is exactly
the same!" (NOT!)

Me, I interpret "The Cult of Orlanth" the same way I would "The Cult of
Dyaus-Pitar": local variation is expected, and is contained within the common
socio-religious overstructure that makes variants recognisable and indeed
comparable.

Heck, even Orlanthi poetry differs between regions!

And remember that old tag about Adventurous and Thunderous worshipped as
different deities with competing priesthoods? That's neat, and varied.

> [Urox]: I think Greg just threw in something with a norse sound to it
> while writing KoS, to counter all the celtic stuff. ;-)

Urox = Aurochs, surely. Not Norse.

______
Joerg:

Let's not start a quibbling match. We both agree there are social changes afoot
in Kethaela, and that some reactionaries pushed off to Dragon Pass. Beyond that,
make up our own stories. You suggest that the migrants have regressed to a
pristine ur-Orlanthi state which was not previously to be  found in Heortland,
but you'd surely admit the only reason to do this is that it allows your Aeolian
Malkionised Heortland to have existed earlier and longer than conventional
chronology could countenance. I'm getting to the stage where I have to mentally
qualify every theory of yours; there seem to be distortions, possibly
subconscious, in practically everything! Better to be honest and up-front about
it.  I prefer to make "radical Aeolianisation" more recent, because I can
better see where Sartarites came from under those circumstances. And because the
"Mediaeval" West may not have looked that way in the past, IMHO, any more than
the real middle ages existed unchanged and unchanging for thousands of years.

____________
Simon Hibbs:

The God Learners' "RuneQuest Sight" was just a particularly virulent, but still
subjective, way of viewing the world. (OK, it's IMO, but can anyone prove me
wrong inside Glorantha?).

_______________
Peter Metcalfe:

> ... These enormities are vunerable only to the Six Weapons of Doom
> (which is lost to Glorantha).

Only Six? Pah!! Old-fashioned fuddy-duddy! (Deep in the Abandoned Mines, and
forging ahead...)

> A Wave of political violence sweeps Esrolia as the Queens debate on
> how a matriachy should be run.

Exactly what I think is happening, post-Pharaoh. No sarcasm needed!

______
Sandy:

> The original intent of the rules change in RQ III making different
> types of spirits was to have a diverse spirit fauna...

Some people want the diversity to be reflected in more tangible/mundane ways,
distinguishing between Troll spirits and Wolf spirits and Flower spirits rather
than between game constructs with different stats. The end result would be still
be a diverse fauna and ecology; but it'd also be one which we Gloranthans could
relate to in a more colourful, character- building way.

Your Malkioni marriage proposals all seem fine and dandy to me, with lashings of
MGF. It's just important to remember that these matters too will vary between
the sects: different explanations for the same customs some of the time;
different customs at others. The Malkioni are basically monogamous, but I'm sure
there are exceptions...

====
Nick
====


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From: pheasant@cix.compulink.co.uk (Nick Eden)
Subject: Have I asked this before?
Message-ID: 
Date: 11 Nov 94 18:37:00 GMT
X-RQ-ID: 6896

I'm off the France in about three weeks time, getting a load of cheap 
french wine and beer. I would rather like to get hold of a copy of Les 
Dieus Nomades, but don't know if it's out and don't know a games shop in 
Calais.

Can anyone help?

Sorry if this has appeared before. I'm pretty sure I submitted it, but if 
dailies were sent out on that day, I never saw them.


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From: 100102.3001@compuserve.com (Peter J. Whitelaw)
Subject: RQ Adventures
Message-ID: <941111223925_100102.3001_EHK29-1@CompuServe.COM>
Date: 11 Nov 94 22:39:26 GMT
X-RQ-ID: 6897

Hi all,

For those that are interested, I received a message from John Castellucci the
other day.  RQA4 is at the printers at should be hitting doormats on both sides
of the pond in a week or two.

Anyone know when we get to see Lords of Terror?

All the best,

Peter



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From: sandyp@idcube.idsoftware.com (Sandy Petersen)
Subject: Re: now what?
Message-ID: <9411112124.AA00209@idcube.idsoftware.com>
Date: 11 Nov 94 10:18:19 GMT
X-RQ-ID: 6898

Peter M.
>We believe that Chargg contains a horde of Daily scholars!
	The funniest Daily I read all year. 



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From: ddunham@radiomail.net (David Dunham)
Subject: Bloodlines
Message-ID: <199411120021.AA02871@radiomail.net>
Date: 12 Nov 94 00:21:01 GMT
X-RQ-ID: 6899

Michael Hitchens wonders
>So can you marry 
>someone of your clan who is not of your bloodline?

I think so, tho in my campaign, this is a silly question --  you wouldn't
want to. There's little political advantage to be gained by marrying
someone from your own clan, since they are _already_ your allies.

>What is the typical size of a bloodline?  How many are there 
>typically in a single clan?

In East Ralios, I'm using the 4-generation definition of a bloodline
(people who have the same great-grandfather up the male line). How large
this would be depends on how many sons grow up and have kids. Irish Celtic*
kings typically had many sons; I'd expect royal bloodlines to be larger
(and probably larger still since they tend to multiple wives). In my
campaign, I made genealogies so I know all the members of two bloodlines of
the Belovaking clan; there are obviously many more bloodlines (I can count
the members when I get home, tho I don't know how many grandpas are still
around).

* My model for East Ralios, along with KoS's Report on the Orlanthi.


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