> You guys could hardly have picked a less "typical" example than
> this one.
> ;-)
Guilty, Milord.
It was the available topic at hand, though.
> A) The Dorasings (pavic Heortlings) consider that Pavis is a member
> of the Orlanth pantheon, which already skews the result (ie could
> you worship Pavis as a subcult of Orlanth Allfather - or O.
> whatever? IMO yes !)
My impression too, but that would exceed the usual requirements for a city god.
> B) The initiatory structure of the Pavis cult is decidedly atypical,
> and worshipping Pavis and another deity is considered quite normal
Basically: Pavis is worshipped as city god. Quite impressive as city gods go, but still only half a step above a clan wyter.
> C) Pavisites in general enjoy increased cult freedom as compared to
> the general situation, because of peculiar local conditions.
Irrelevant to our disagreement, since we argued about the Orlanthi side.
>> WRT reciprocal advantages to the Orlanthi, I think that granting >> the citizenship of Pavis without requiring an extra-pantheon >> association sounds much like an Orlanth Rex solution to me.
> Allfather : Orlanth Rex is reserved for Chiefs and Kings, and very
> rarely for exceptional individuals like magical Champions of Vingkot
> et cetera
I meant that it was the kings' use of the sylph which had been granted to the Pavis cult. Not that either the Rex or the Allfather aspects nowadays have sylphs to distribute...
>> Anyway, my question remains whether city gods are regarded like >> landscape deities by the resident Heortlings. Ruleswise, that is...
> I'd hate to generalize : your City Will Vary !
My cities of special interest include Wilmskirk and Karse. Of course they will vary.
> But hows about restarting this discussion from scratch using two
> blander deities, say Vinga and the City Goddess of Mygalos
> (Esrolia)?
> Could a devotee of Vinga also worship this previously undocumented
> goddess ?
Let's first find out more about Mygala. Any forum you choose... ;-)
> ;-)
Vinga as Red-haired Woman subcult of Ernalda, or Vinga as Orlanth Adventuress? ;-)
> Julian Lord
> PS I'd guess that many City cults might follow the shared subcult
> route, as explained in ST 16-17.
I am experiencing some sort of deja-vu with the topic of City Gods on the table once again:
http://lokarnos.com/article.pl?sid=03/10/18/1255237
For a change, I find both Alex' and Peter's positions not too far from my own.
Peter rightly pointed out that city gods require less commitment than an ordinary initiation, quoting among others Gods of Glorantha:
Me:
>>>>I.e. Pavic full Citizens devoted to Orlanth.
Peter:
>>> No. Being a citizen of Pavis requires far fewer than 10% of
>>> one's time and so it is not comparable to initiation.
Tim Ellis:
>>What (if anything) is the commitment requirement for Pantheon >>worship? I thought that was 10% and initiation was a further 20% >>(rule books not to hand).
Peter:
>Which is a standard translation from Runequest cults to Heroquest. >However City Gods were abnormal in that they required far less >time (GoG says 5% of time and 1% of income) and so arguments >based on citizens being initiates are a waste of time IMO.
In this case we're back to the question of pantheon membership, which I will happily postpone.
What I want to find out is how much of this reduced amount of commitment will be subsumed in the pantheon initiation, how much is similar to treatment of landscape entities of whatever power and additional magics, and how much an actual full initiation to a city god will differ from the more casual citizen initiation.
After having cleared these obstacles, we can talk about which gods will be subsumed in the pantheon of which city.
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