Re: Argument Overridden

From: Stephen McGinness <stephenmcg_at_...>
Date: Tue, 04 Nov 2003 11:10:39 -0000

Alex wrote, and I can't help myself from replying…
>> There is a strand of argument that would say that when it turns
>> violent then a new contest should be begun ??? perhaps with GM
>> assigned penalties to one or both of the parties with new AP
totals.
>
>On the subject of positions being misunderstood... I don't think
>anyone is saying _should_ be begun. What I, at any rate, am saying
>is _could_ be begun,

Agreed. You didn't say should though I might have heard and responded to it that way. Indeed, having written that I'm even more certain I'm not going to talk about this any more. :-) There's no way I could be prescriptive about what people should do in their own games.

>if it's decided that's the most appropriate means of
>resolution, specifically where treating it as the same contest would
>seem incongruous, contrived, narratively self-defeating, or
>frustrating the legitimate expectations of the player.

Tricksy word, legitimate. :-)

>I'm repeating myself on this, but it does seem to be repeatedly
>necessary.

:-) It's been a feature of this discussion! :-)

>> In this case the original contest might not ever be resolved.
>> Which in my view would be ending the contest prematurely.
>
>If you end the contest, ipso facto you (ought to!) resolve it. I
>thought I said this pretty explicitly.

Well, not in a way I heard it that way. I suppose this is the crux of what we are discussing, how you resolve it. You would suggest the GM wings it which is, I suppose, a good HQ way of doing it! :-) Negotiate penalties based on the narrative and continue.

>> I'm willing to accept that multiple contests _might_ possibly be
>> done simultaneously though what happens when might be problematic
>> here especially if you have multiple opponents engaged in both
>> contests! :-) The GM would have to be a masochist!!!
>
>It certainly helps... But wasn't it you that suggested we stick to
>the examples at hand?

I think I did, once, long ago. :-) And if you notice, I didn't draw in another example, I was simply commenting on difficulties that might be inherent running nested contests. No suggestion that it's wrong or shouldn't be done. Just that I think I'd probably avoid it if I could…

>You seem to be constructing here a vast, if vaguely
>drawn, vista of Things That Will Go Wrong if one lets the camel's
>nose one inch inside the tent, without even _reference_ to an actual
>example.

But you told me to stick to the examples at hand! :-)