> From: "Mike Holmes" <mike_c_holmes_at_...>
Mike, as always, brings up interesting points. And I have an unusual moment to reply, since this subject is currently part of my creative effort.
> OK, now, after playing Devil's Advocate (hmm, that makes Greg the
> devil...),
I�ve been called worse. :*)
I will address your question from two sides:
1. The �laws of Glorantha.�
2. Game Knowledge
> If gods are so darned determined to be sure that a character is not
> worshipping anyone else but themselves or their allies, if they can look
> that closely into a character's heart to see that he's worthy by these
> very
> technical rules of worship, then why is it that they don't prevent people
> from worshipping them incorrectly?
First, remember that most of the people in the world engage in mixed worship. This IS the normal way.
Our perspective on this has to do with �what the immortals are.� We often tend to treat them as if they are gigantic people. Especially in storytelling we tend to put that �form� upon them, even though Orlanth is the wind and change, air and movement, storm, clans and tribes, masculinity, and strength. But the gods are not gigantic people. People are different.
Human beings have a unique position in the cosmic scheme. People are the source of Will now, which they can use to shape the world around them. Individual choices are possible to people, but not to the gods.
So, the first point is that immortals don�t *want* anything, except to continue their existence as determined by the Great Compromise. Part of that compromise was that the gods get the power sent to them by worshippers. Nothing in the contract says they discriminate from whence it comes. They live in a stream of �mana� that comes to them.
> That is, apparently Humakt thinks that it's more important to allow the
> Praxians to worship him as Sword Man, than to take the small steps
> neccessary to tell them that he's not a spirit.
Here is a case where out of game knowledge is overcoming the Glorantha �man in the saddle� perspective. We naturally funnel our interpretation through the rules because that�s what�s on the character sheet. But the fact is that most people in Glorantha don�t believe that there are three Otherworlds and three systems. They know of multiple otherworlds, usually all labeled with the same category name (�otherworld� being an example of this).
> Like simply not giving them
> magic. Humakt has got to know that they're doing it wrong, dancing some
> sword dance, and not sacrificing like they should.
My conclusion is that they are doing it the way that they have always done it, because it works. The entity being worshipped is incapable of volunteering the information anyway.
> And that these followers
> are, therefore, not as capable as his other followers who he's got working
> the right way.
> So why doesn't he just give some leader a vision when they breach the
> otherworld using their ecstatic ritual and show the myth of how he's
> supposed to be worshipped?
They breach that all and go to that precise event now, of course. But they are the Sword Brothers, outsiders everywhere, and so all of the Otherworlds are hostile.
> To go back to Devil's Advocate for a moment, if I understand correctly,
> it's
> because Humakt really doesn't change or do anything, right? He's immobile
> as
> part of the compromise.
As hopefully explained above, yes.
> So it's just a question of what the people looking
> at him see? Is that it?
If by �looking at� you mean, �use a multidimensional system of communication� and by �see� you mean, �have a deep and meaningful contact with a supernatural entity, whose results change the world I live in� I�d say mostly yes.
> But, then...how do they "disapprove" of anyone?
Two things:
1. The �test to join a cult� type of disapproval.
Well, simple game mechanics of course.
2. �Are You Me?�
The actual test is to see if enough of that aforementioned Will has been
directed towards the same flow as the entity. The rites require a merger,
and if not enough commonality is found then the link is never made.
So, having said all of that, I want to stress that the critical point of
difference between �most people� and the average adventurer. For whatever
mysterious reason the cosmos has determined that adventurers are moved by
some sort of higher consciousness, by some massive intervention of Will
that manifests into Glorantha through them. The issues being questioned
here are manifestations of that Will.
These issues are comparatively petty and unimportant to the grand scheme.
(For now. Until some of their subsequent manifestations get exploited. )
YGWV.
> From: Tony Davis <gallows_brother_at_...>
> Subject: Re: Re: Charms for friends
>
> If Greg Stafford wants Glorantha to be that way, he
> should say so. It should be in the rules.
Actually, the rules state YGWV.
I didn't comission Robin to make the rules to perfectly ilustrate
Glorantha. They are an entertainment device to have fun with.
> So far, I haven't seen it.
Of course not. HQ is (comparitively) rules lite, and oversized at that. I hope that some of the above will help to clarify things.
ygWv mis amigos.
--Greg Stafford
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