Nick
> IMO this "expert" is likely to be from the Heartlands, not a native-
>born upper-class Carmanian.
I think there is a constant infusion of such Heartlanders, but I also think that there would be, after hundred of years of Lunar rule, an increasing number of households who have their members in Lunar cults.
> > Like the Empire as a whole, the Carmanians are facing creeping
> > lunarisation that grows stronger each Wane.
> I agree. But they are probably still less Lunarised than any of the
> Satrapies, maybe on a par with the Provinces. That is why
> Carmanians are Citizen Foreigners.
Agreed. The main bastions of the Lunar faith are around Glamour (Silver Shadow has around 50% of all Lunar Initiates IMO, hence the collapse of the Empire when the Moon lands on it in 55) and Torang.
> > I don't see the Viziers as being unable to use their weapons any-
> > more. The concept of the Carmanians creating a caste that cannot
> > pick up a blade seems wrong to me.
> Then our concepts are greatly at odds. The Carmanians obsess about
> ritual purity. No vizier learns weapon skills or is trained in the
> arts of mundane warfare, IMO.
I think the _majority_ do not. I think there are exceptions. What I find uncomfortable is the concept of a caste that cannot fight, only use magic. It becomes a D&D style restriction on magic users that they cannot pick up a sword. I have no objection to the _majority_ of Viziers, even the _vast_ majority of Viziers not knowing one end of a mace from the other BUT I cannot see them being bereft of such men utterly.
> > I look at it like a medieval knight of one of the more frivolous
> > orders - they have ritual costume that is very unwarlike indeed,
> > but in battle, its on with the combat leather and heavy plate.
> This does not appeal to me.
My point was, that costume has its place, and the Viziers are surely costumed when it is appropriate. A "Grand Knight" of Carmania could be a Vizier-militant and still be into his castes love for pomp and ceremony.
> >> [Magi] are not sorcerers but "priests" of Idovanus.
> > They are mystics, following an transcendent being.
> Or perhaps "liturgists," unlike the bulk of the Viziers?
Idovanus is a mystical entity, like Dayzatar in some respects, only more active through his Magi. The Magi empower philosophies of Idovanus as weapons against enemy Gods who follow the Lie. Those philosophies are carefully constructed belief systems that attack the enemy deity and pretty much bludgeon it into being part of the Truth of Idovanus, usually after mythically killing it. This is the ultimate power of the Magi and is how they bring cults into the fold. However, the drawback is that the cults brought into the Idovanic truth are locked in place by the chains of the philosophy and so are bound to one inalienable truth and cannot change. Thus Bisos the Hazar is an unchanging deity, his heroquesters are unable to discover new truths (or old ones) as this would be against the edict of the Magi and the authority of the Viziers. Whereas the Pelandan Bisos, persecuted though he is, has the advantage of being open to creative heroquesting.
> > They are of mixed blood too, very, very few Carmanians are without
> > Pelandan blood to some degree or another.
> I'd say "Pelorian" not "Pelandan". Otherwise you omit Dara Happa,
>Worian, maybe Spol...
True. Defintately Spol. They have influenced the Carmanians highly, though they would deny this, or course.
> > It would be tough on them and everyone else if they went outside
> > of Carmania and met those worshipping deities that had no
sanctioned
> > Viziers. I think they must have some mechanism for dealing with
that.
> Distrust and dislike of foreigners is the obvious one.
Yes, but they are fanatics about the Truth and the Lie and when they leave Carmania, they are surrouded by the Lie at all times, as everyone in the cults around them is without a Vizier! How can they know the Truth? I suspect that the Carmanians outside their lands either pity or loathe the people they see and are extremely careful when dealing with them.
> > But they _aren't_ really a Malkioni people any more are they?
> No, but the idea of caste restrictions is IMO strong in Carmania to
> this day.
I agree, to a point. I think they are more mobile by far in their caste than the Rokari BUT I don't think they've made a religious virtue of caste mobility like the Hrestoli.
Martin Laurie
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