> > 2) Even if the character is naff at combat because he's focused on
> > leadership instead, there's a good bet there's somebody else in the
> > party who *is* that good at combat, which brings us back to the
> > original situation (unless one wants to keep separating the
> > characters, which isn't my style either).
>
> But it becomes increasingly difficult to find reasons for them to stay
> together at all times as they rise in power. As they become chiefs,
kings,
> high priests etc or warband leaders they all do so in different
cults and
> groups which means that they automatically become seperated.
True enough, which is another reason why I'm leery of those sorts of power levels.
> If you allow a
> top out at 20w3, that is still above tribal champion level which
means each
> player would have to be a champ of a different tribe, hence seperated.
Agreed. This, together with some of the other things you refer to explain why I think that the techniques you (and Roderick) mentioned are necessary for characters with abilities over about 20w if GM and players are to keep an interest in the game, but (to my mind) fail altogether once you get beyond about 20w3.
> >Vice versa, if the pitchfork-wielding fyrd really does turn up, of
course!
>
> Well true but Argrath has a bodyguard with him that could take on a
tribe.
> What do you do then? The player may be clan champ level but what
about their
> following? At 10w3 I'd expect a warrior to have a significant
following.
Oh, I don't mind if the hero and his band of 12 stalwart double-mastery thugs can face off against the clan fyrd. I expect *that* sort of thing. Its being able to do so while standing on your own armed only with a teaspoon and a plush toy that I'm worried about :-)
And, again, we're at needing all manner of tricks to maintain interest long before you reach 20w3 - which is why I don't see this as a low ceiling at all!
> Even at 15w2, I'd say a fyrd is beyond most groups to worry about.
> Say 6 players all 15w2 in combat,
Fortunately, I can't imagine any group I'd be likely to be running a game for who'd ever that many characters with such high combat skill. Unless you're counting followers, of course.
> Once players hit this level they become beyond clan politics. It
> would take the tribal king, all his best priests and the local hero
> to show to give them a bad day.
Yes, and you could be right that in practice I'd lose interest in a game before it actually got near the 20w3 limit. But, still, as an arbitrary line in the sand, its as good as any other :-)
-- Trotsky Gamer and Skeptic ------------------------------------------------------ Trotsky's RPG website: http://www.ttrotsky.pwp.blueyonder.co.uk/
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