Re: Misapplied Worship (was: Malia)

From: Roderick and Ellen Robertson <rjremr_at_...>
Date: Sat, 11 Nov 2000 14:43:49 -0800


Just to throw in my two cents (not having chatted to Greg about it, so this is Roderick as Player, not Roderick as Editor or Issaries Flunky)

> But as Roderick (I think) said, at the end of the Hero Wars, everyone will
> see the sun the same way. One way will conquer the others, and prove that
it
> is correct. This could well be Aeol's followers. They may prove that Ehilm
> was a sorceror who pretended to be a god. And you know what? They'll be
> right. There will be no misapplied penalties to sorcerors doing fire and
> light magic the way Ehilm did it. So where does "misapplied" fit in to all
> this? The terminology all sounds a bit One-True-Way-ist, and I'm concerned
> that newcomers to Glorantha will accept it as fact that Orlanth is a god,
> and Aeol was wrong.

Some people can be "right" without making everyone else "wrong". If I HQ to prove that Kolat is really a God, or Orlanth is really a Sorcerous power (and manage to do it), then I and my Extraordinary supporters will not get the Misapplied penalty when we sacrifice to Kolat or Pray to (W)Orla(n)th. However, until I can convince everyone else in the world that I am right, there will be two "correct" ways of worshipping the being in question - the "normal" way that everyone else does, and my way. People worshipping Kolat as a god, but not following *my* Religion will be doing it wrong and getting the Misapplied penalty (at least until they go and do their own HQ path to prove Kolat's divinty).

I can convince other people of Kolat's divinity (wagering my "Devoted To Kolat" vrs their "Kolat Spirit Tradition"), and as I win these tests I will convert them to my version of Kolat. At first my only followers will be the people who gave me extraordinary support., As I go about the world converting the heathen, my "powerbase" of followers will grow. When I'm able able to muster enough Extraordinary supporters to take on all the Kolati spirit-talkers of Dragon Pass, then I can convert all the people of Dragon Pass to my religion. It sort of like early christianioty - at first conversion was of individuals or small groups, but eventually entire coutries were converted at one shot.

> Malia isn't set up for sacrificial worship. But if someone HQs to discover
> the correct way to directly approach Malia without going through the
> animistic layers, then they may (if they are very powerful, very well
> prepared and probably very lucky too) be able to create the theistic cult
of
> Malia worship. Now I'm not saying that all forms of worship is possible
for
> all entities, that you could, say, work out how to sacrifice cows to
Zzabur,
> that may not be possible. But if there is a hint of the possibility that
> Malia has a trace of divinity in her nature, then this can be found,
> identifieded, and accessed. Just like the Sun has elements of sorcerous
> power, divinity, animism, and mysticism, whoever proves that their way is
> right *is* *right*.

I don't even think that a being has to have "elements of sorcerous power, divinity, animism, and mysticism", I think that a strong enough mortal individual can enforce his religious views on others.

> When you first start out with a new way of accessing a power, say Aeol's
> theory of Worlath, magic is going to be difficult. If it's so difficult
that
> you can't get it to work, then well, you were wrong. Back to the drawing
> board and start again. But if you can get even the faintest of breezes to
> tickle the hairs on your cheek, then you're on to something. Work at it,
> discover the deeper truths, refine the theories, and the penalties will
> surely reduce. Eventually, if you take it all the way and prove beyond all
> doubt that you are right and that hairy idiot above you is wrong, then you
> demonstrate your superior knowledge by bringing him down to the ground
with
> a thump, or flying faster than him. You will then have weakened his magic,
> because he's seen your demonstration that you have stronger command over
the
> air than him. If you and your followers do this and sow the seeds of doubt
> in the mind of every Orlanthi in the world, then it's Orlanthi that will
be
> suffering the penalty, not you.

Right.

This sort of thing takes buckets of masteries and tons of Extraordinary followers. This isn't something that a measly little w3 Sorcerer or God-talker will do on his own, this takes w4+ and Extraordinary supporters who are literally putting their belief on the line.

Aeol might have been able to "convert" Orlanth into a Sorcerous power, though I doubt that all the gods were so converted - the Aeolian Church might have some "gods" that have been converted and so provide true Sorcerous Magic, while others have yet to be "tamed" and so get misapplied penalties. They may claim that all the gods are "tamed" or whatever, but some magic is just harder to access...

RR

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