I had my Knowing Companion do it!
> Thanks for the comments Jeff. They added a lot, and helped bring to
> life my usual my usual dry delivery. In particular, the minor gods
> and goddesses were a great addition. Niskiss seems my kind of guy :)
I think he'll be a really, really popular subcult of Orlanth...
> enough that the clans of both parties need to be involved. Twenty or
> thirty cattle *is* a lot, but then choosing a bride or a husband is
> one of the most important decisions of your life. Conducting the
> courtship, honourably negotiating with kin, and balancing the
demands
> of interested parties is *itself* a rite of adulthood (a bit like
> buying a house and taking on a mortgage for us).
Ah, okay. You've put it in words I can understand. That makes a certain amount of sense -- actually its a series of contests/negotiations. Would probably make a good 'day in the life' sort of generic scenario somewhere.
> (Stray thought: year-marriages might be a form of 'pay by
> installment' for the poor but worthy. :))
Now you're scaring me. =)
> > when the clan is in a more settled region and the alliances forged
> > through marriage are less crucial.
>
> Marriage is as much a clan business as an individual matching. In
> some circumstances a matchmaker's role might be to *stop* you doing
Yep. She's got feats to do this! And feats to encourage matches as well. Cooling and heating the blood, as it were.
> things as much as assisting you to get what you think you want. An
> ancient and delicate art... no wonder its an Ernaldan subcult. Can
> you imagine asking Uncle Boz the Learing Uroxi to be your
> matchmaker... :)
Hmmm. Sort of like having Cordeilia Vorkosigan as your Baba. =)
But it makes sense to be an Ernaldan subcult -- the Queen aspect of the Big E is very, very concerned with buliding and maintaning the loom and fabric of _society_ rather than fertility or motherhood. At least, that's how I read it.
> > This is to prevent incest, unwitting and otherwise.
>
> This is properly a pedantic anthropowanky aside on my part, but
Indeed. Well, I was just thinking that a good rule of thumb is 'in clan' is quite possibly consaginuious (sp) -- I was going ot use that word rather than incest but I figured since I couldn't spell it, I'd better not use it.
> exogamy (marrying outside your social group) and incest (the ban on
> sex with close kin) are very, very different things. In kinship
The word/concept I wanted falls sort of in the middle of these two extremes.
> or another are universal, but the categories they ban are *not* the
> same as forbidden marriage partners. So Nalda Heortling might
You've just revealed the horrors of Set Theory for marriage groups. Now I know I'm in Hell!
> discretely take a lover from *within* her clan, even though she can
> never marry within it. (Of course she would never dally with close
Might but that still would be close to taboo, I think. Clans are not terribly deep gene-pools and folks COULD get interrelated quite quickly. Be thankful that the Heortlings don't make the fetish of fosterage that the ancient norse or feudal japanese did.
> kin from her bloodline - that's INCEST! "Besides... we share a
hearth
That seemed almost an axiom...
> > moved inoto the HW envirionent (Ian? Any ETA on that?).
>
> I happen to be doing the final layout right now. :) Ian has been
> chasing me up, and I believe the final playtests will be concluded
A-heh. I see you got dragooned into too. I was orginally involved but sort of turned into an axe-wielding Uroxi editor. (CUT! CUT! CUT!)
> this weekend. As someone who had a hand in MOB's original scenario,
> let me say I think Ian and his co-authors have done a BRILLIANT job
> in updating it for Hero Wars. Stay tuned. Now if only I can get the
> map right...
Great! Looking forward to it. From what I recall, Greg gave permission to just put it on the Issaries site for all to see. But I'm not sure where its going -- going to be glad to see it thought.
Say, isn't the lovely couple of Carylon and Melisande sort of forbidden... by your previous reasoning? (I sort of view the Garhounders as a tribe rather than a clan and hence an allowable marriage pool).
> I've probably been over-emphasising it of late in order to get the
> idea across - but I believe the idea of gifting and patronage is
> absolutely central to understanding how a kin-based, virtually
> coinless, communal society works. Its more abstract and background
> than overt - a gift is never called a loan, but if you don't repay
it
Alright. I think its probably necessary -- when you put it in that light. It should be covered to soem extent in TR(I hope).
I'd pretty much figured it worked that way but not quite so blatantly.
> in some way you're total rubbish and won't be taken seriously by
> anyone. Patrons are never called such, but everybody in the clan
You're that no good RootRot bloodline down over yonder. One thing that has to be remembered is that you don't really exist -- your kin and bloodline are the only legal entity and your actions are a collective impression you AND your kin create. Its hard to be a hero if you're from that No Good Rootrot Bloodline. Almost impossible to live down -- better hope to be fostered out or turn to your God(dess) for succor. Folks just don't mock goddi... much.
> knows that Kierston Two Worlds helped you set up your personal herd,
> and that she expects your support in her law case against those lazy
> thieving Maplebarks. Every Heortling has a very finely tuned sense
of
Point taken.
> status and obligation, and though it doesn't often manifest in overt
THIS is a better way to phrase it...
> ways (for we all are free), it *does* form the bedrock of how they
> perceive each other. (In the same way, 'status' and 'class' are
Ah yes, the class-conciousness of the folks in GB! Its quite startling to watch when you're from a society which is (somewhat) less conscoius of it.
> You don't have to give it much attention in play - just remember
that
> in a kin-based society like the Heortlings, there are *always*
people
> you owe a favour to, *always* people who owe you a favour, and that
And the higher your relationship to the clan is, the more folks owe YOU. Saving them from the ogre bandits last season counts as a plus in a lot of those little mental accounting books.
> publically reminding people of these favours and subtly calling them
> in is very much the way that things are done. For those with a rules
> bent, you could probably work out a simple system using Wealth and
> Hero Points.
Relationships works well -- you've just explained the clan one in great detail. And this can be extrapolated to one with the Tribe.
> On the large scale, a clan will have as many daughters as sons, so
it
> will all balance out. Its the circulation that counts. However, the
Yes, the circulation... but one has to have the deposit to play the game in the first place.
> > Most cult titles are non-hereditary among the Heortlings, I
> thought?
> > Though amongst the Earth Tribe, it probably differs.
>
> A personal foible. I tend to use them occasionally for female,
earth-
> based cult positions. I wouldn't want to over-emphasise them, but
> since Heortling society is
Its a reasonable one. I suspect that certain bloodlines will simply guard the secrets required to fill tha tposition. Its not necessarily hereditary but it becomes that way.
> I always try and built in little things to emphasise Ernaldan power.
> Hereditary positions passed from mother to daughter is one of them.
I just point out to the players that the clan is doing what the women apparently decided in the Loom House over herbal tea, root cakes and dominance games.
And the men all seem to follow along.
> Cheers
>
> John
Thanks!
Jeff
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