David Dunham wrote:
>
> John wrote
>
> > actual bridewealth and dowry payments will obviously vary quite a bit from
> > campaign to campaign, clan to clan and marriage to marriage. I like the idea
> > of tying payments to weregild, but personally would use the *full* weregild
> > as a starting point in negotiations - what, after all, are your wife and
> > children worth?
>
> Except that wergild is supposed to be set high enough to discourage
> killings (and require your kin to help pay, to further help
> discourage killings). You want to *encourage* marriage, so
> bride-price/dowry should be a bit lower. (I'm not as big a believer
> in service as you are, I think. The new couple are supposed to be
> productive members of the husband's bloodline; if he's spending all
> his time serving his wife's kin he can't be supporting his wife very
> well.)
I was suggesting a _fraction_ of the Weregeld as that amount is an indication of that person's importance to society. And a dowry should be about equivalent to the bride price/morning gift. It effectively means that the wife has eqivalent wealth in the stead that her husband does (assuming equal marriage -- there's so many I know)
I think you're right about service. I'd assume it was done before as that way the husband to be can prove to the skeptical inlaws that he is a solid husband type. And it is cheaper than cows... IF his clan can spare him.
Of course, service from a truly nasty weapon-thane might be encouraged if the wife's clan is having military woes. They might even prefer to have him around for a year first.
> > I don't know of any real world social structure that practices
> > both bridewealth *and* dowry - if they cancel out then the exchange becomes
> > purely ritual.
>
> Not at all. You still need to have the cows in hand (and the girl has
> to have the dowry in hand). The exchange, even if even, proves that
> both individuals/families are of means.
Neither _bloodline_ looses wealth but half the man's wealth is replaced by the woman's dowry. Which makes for an interesting and more equal marriage. Ernalda brought the Earth Tribe with her as dowery when married to Orlanth.
> We didn't use the term "patron" either, as I recall. The term "cattle
> loan" was bandied about a lot, however. Kierston can always call in
> the loan, so you'd better support her...
Cattle Loan sounds awkward. Client/Patron, I have found, exisited throughout the Gallic confederacy in the 1st Century BC but I don't know what they called the relationship.
> Jeff
>
> > At least one of my PC's threatened his kids
> > with the Bad Wind would get them if they didn't behave. (The kid
> > replied "You can't make me do anything!" -- I forsee trouble there...)
>
> Hmm, sounds like Grettir the Strong, who has to rate as one of the
> most troublesome teens in history. Maybe you can foster out the kid
> to a strong chieftain...
Just about. But at least he's not conducting legal cases on the sly.
> David Dunham <mailto:dunham_at_...>
> Glorantha/HW/RQ page: <http://www.pensee.com/dunham/glorantha.html>
> Imagination is more important than knowledge. -- Albert Einstein
>
Either that or have Uroxi on hand when he goes to an EARLY initiation... But then I told him getting married right after coming back from an Uroxi heroquest was probably not wise (though, no doubt, he's a fine bull now).
Jeff
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