On 14 Jul 2004 at 16:52, Joerg Baumgartner wrote:
> IMO Rikard's capital is the old capital of the high kings of Heortland,
> Durengard. Following the Anglo-Saxon conquest analog, Rikard would prefer
> to claim legitimate successorship, and that usually means taking over the
> capital etc. of the precedessor.
>
> Thunder Rebels p.52f tells us that he conquered the Hurlant tribe, and
> mentions after the Esvular description (where the Esvulari moved _their_
> capital to Mount Passant) that he rules over the entire plateau (i.e.
> Esvular, Gardufar and Karhend).
OK, I'll make a final call on that if it becomes directly relevant. But it's clear it's down that way. That's fine. I like the logic of Durengard, although he could always have been crowned there and done his day-to-day running of the place from Mt Passant. There's plenty of examples in history of the coronation needing to be someplace that is no longer the active capital.
> Karse most definitely isn't the capital - basically, the conquest of Karse
> did not reduce Rikard's kingdom in any way, which may be the reason why
> Fazzur had almost an entire year to prepare the conquest of the rest of
> Heortland.
I figured that. It is an independent Barony after all. That's why I was worried when looking for stuff on Rikard and I came across Karse as his capital, it seemed wrong to me from what little I knew.
> To nitpick, the attack on Broyan's forces necessarily predates the siege
> of Karse by a few days (the skirmishes which sent Broyan holed up into
> Whitewall). Smithstone was a major city of Broyan's Volsaxi tribe, too.
Fair enough. The attack comes in, Broyan retreats to whitewall, the Lunar army keeps moving and sweeps up Karse. (Fairly bloodlessly, if I recall correctly)
> Broyan in Whitewall is a free king of a conquered land, with his army
> still intact, but his domain conquered except for one last fortress.
Right. That I knew.
> Fazzur is not actively involved in the siege of Whitewall. During the
> start of the campaign, he left his slow contingents to keep Broyan's army
> from interfering with the conquest, then systematically took the other
> centers of power and money in Volsaxar. While building up the final
> assault on Karse, he also has troops securing the supply lines via
> Smithstone and pacifying the clans of Volsaxar. When the supply lines from
> Wilmskirk to the besieging forces of Whitewall are threatened, Fazzur has
> to send part of his mobile army to oversee the dissolution of the Kultain
> tribe. This will create an ebb and flow in the forces present at Karse and
> Smithstone. Towards the end of the year, Fazzur sells the governorship
> over the Volsaxi and Smithstone to Baron Sanuel. Meanwhile, his agents are
> active in Rikard's New Malkonwal, seeking out dissidents or bribable
> allies.
Wait. How long after the assault on Herotland is the Seige of Karse? A quick look at the Whitewall Wiki seems to indicate the invasion begins in Illusion week of Sea Season 1619, the Seige of Karse begins Death Week of Fire Season 1619, and Karse falls during Stasis Week of Earth Season 1619. That's a longer Seige than I realized (although it could still have been fairly bloodless if it was a "wait them out" kind of deal). That also makes the take over more a recent thing, which may work for the game, since it means no one has yet established real connections with the new Lunar overlords, allowing my players to make whatever moves they want. That's fine.
> > Given that the 3rd player wants her character to be someone who
> > committed an atrocity, (she hasn't decided on which side she was
> > when she did it and what side she is on now) who has fled to
> > Karse. I'm trying to make sure I know some good places she
> > may have done this.
> Atrocities are hard to commit in Glorantha. Intra-cultural it is easier,
> like Orlanthi consorting with Chaos or Lunars evading taxes.
> There are stories about Lunar atrocity troops, like the story where a
> Lunar tribune (or was it Jaxarte) meets Roan-ur (in Tales #16).
She seems to be leaning towards committing an atrocity from her own point of view. i.e. - her own sensibilities were violated. IF a Lunar, she would have started as one who believed Chaos was somehow a minor, controlled part of the Empire. It's one thing to know your side has these weapons, another to watch a village be annhilated by atrocity troops. (Troops you may have called in.) Perhaps she then becomes a White Moonie.
Certainly as an Orlanthi, it would have to be something like consorting with Chaos in order to destroy Lunars.
Like I said, she hasn't decided yet exactly where she wants to go with this.
> > It seems there is active, recent nastiness going on in the following
> > areas:
> > Dragon Pass (any iteration of Lunar vs Orlanthi - either side can have
> > done something
> > nasty to the other, and this can extend from Tarsh exile region right on
> > through Sartar)
>
> The most recent activities which might be judged as atrocities (of a
> larger scale) by the Sartarites were the Firebull Rebellion among the
> Sambari and the dissolution of the Dundealos.
>
> Activities regarded as atrocities by the Lunars: robbing tax trains,
> killing officials in an imaginative vengeful way.
The important thing here is that she needs to have viewed it as an atrocity by her own side. She's just realized she has abandoned her ideals in order to win the war/battle, whatever. "In obsessing about the enemy, you become the enemy" kind of thing. She let the ends justify the means, and now the means have gotten so bad that she' s not sure about the ends anymore. (Figuring out where she ends up now is going to be interesting.)
> > Herotland gives us Rikard vs the Esvulari he's conquered,
>
> More likely vs. Hurlant or Karhend Orlanthi, although the Bad Sheriff of
> Jansholm plot always works. Think of a Sir Guy de Gisborne who finds he
> has a conscience after eliminating one bunch of rebels in a gruesome way
> (or the nun who betrayed Robin Hood and wants to repent).
Exactly the sort of thing she might be going through. And isn't Rikard trying to impose Rokari monotheism on the "too tolerant" Aeolians? Or did I misunderstand that?
> > Rikard vs Broyan, Broyan vs the Lunars, and Rikard vs the Lunars.
>
> The major outrage among the Lunars was the drowning of the concubines
> which led to the dissolution of the Kultain tribe. Check the Wilmskirk
> Yahoogroup list archives for some ideas.
I don't feel like joining yet *another* mailing list, though. I can't seem to find a mention of it anywhere else using google, however.
> > Obviously, I can always make something up for one of the other 6ths if
> > none of these
> > appeal to her. (Calandraland seems the easiest, if I go with a split among
> > the various volcano priests.
>
> Here violence is part of the religion, as among the Uz and the Heortlings.
Ahh, but violence isn't the only possible atrocity, is it?
>
> > Esrolia seems less wracked by violence.
>
> That actually makes having an action regarded as atrocity easier. There
> are a couple of Black Earth type activities which might qualify - Cult of
> Kali stereotypes, for instance.
Very good point, excellent idea.
> > The Shadow Plateau is trolls,
> > so less likely for her to be there, and neither of the Isles seem
> > particularly jumping right now.)
>
> The isles might offer overseas activity, e.g. in Melib. Imagine a revenge
> against abductors of crewmates going a) way over board and b) against the
> wrong target, and you might have a sufficiently large black mark on a
> character. Otherwise, the shipwreck of the Medusa with its ensuing
> cannibalism might be a useful stereotype to build from.
Both of those are great ideas. I like a vengeance gone wrong idea, that's very nice, I'll make sure to list it among some options if she hasn't already picked something. There' no need for this to be part of a larger conflict, something very personal works perfectly well.
Thanks a lot.
LC
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