On 21 Sep 2004 at 22:05, jeffrichard68 wrote:
> Lighthouse has hit on one of the biggest and most significant "Blank
> Places" in described Glorantha - Heortland.
You've already corrected my name, so I will not take offense. You can always just use LC, most of humanity does.
Not much has made it to
> my attention concerning the post-Andrinic history of Heortland (with
> the exception of Hardrand the Green), assuming much even exists.
Great, another 'just make it up since there's no canon' thing. :) Although reading my copy of Dragon Pass, it is the Pharoah who makes the Kingdom of Herotland, and turns it into Marches and Earldoms and such.
> Yes. However, the Hendreiki Heortlendings (as distinguished from
> the Esvulari Heortlendings) are still Heortlings. In fact, they -
> and not the Sartarites - are the population core of Heortling
> Orlanthi in the Third Age.
Really? That's new to me. See, it's always nice to learn things. Everything is SO Sartar based I always assumed that the descriptions of traditional Orlanthi were Sartar, and that Heortland was different. So the Homeland Heortland in the main book should be considered to apply to Herotland primarily?
> Not exactly - I said three of the tribes of Heortland fall into the
> range of traditional heortlings. The Esvulari are definitely
> outside that range.
Actually, you said "Of the three tribes of the Heortland, three (the Volsaxi, the Jondalarings, and the Hurlantings) ..."
I assume the extra three was a mistake. :-) OK, so there are how many tribes in Heortland? I'm only using Dragon Pass right now, since someone has my copy of Glorantha: Introduction to the Hero Wars. Here we are told of the 4 tribes in the Volsaxar Confederation, which are obviously not the tribes you are speaking of.
> I think this "overclass" (can someone come up with a better, non-
> Marxist description of this - sheriffdom?)
It is Sheriff's, correct? And there *are* kings and such, no?
is nonexistent amongst
> the Volsaxi (who don't appear to recognize the authority of the
> Heortlending High King), and quite strong in the earldoms of Karhend
> and Gardufar.
OK, so really only the middle two earldoms work with this approach. The northernmost is officially part of the Kingdom, but has always been somewhat problematic and not accepting the high king (who's capital is??). The Southernmost earldom is where we've got the Esvulari, who acknowledge the high king, but have a much more Westernized culture, and where the Aeolian church is strongest.
And so if I understand, clans are as clans are, a group of clans can be part of a tribe, and a tribe would have a king. In a strange Heortland thing, an earl oversees the tribes of a region (each earl was based in a city, I presume?) using the sheriffs. The High King rules the earls.
> > > The Esvulari are different, of course.
>
> I believe that the Esvulari recognize the authority of the
> Heortlending kings and consider themselves part of Heortland. Check
> out the Trade Talk issue on the Esvulari.
Great, something else to hunt down. Can I just assume they are more urban and feudal, rather than the clan/tribe structure I outlined above?
> Rikard appears to have ruled all of Heortland except the Volsaxi,
> who I think consider themselves the true heirs of the Hendreiki.
> Not quite so sure about Bandal.
If I recall, Rikard claims High Kingshop of the country and renames it. Only the Volsaxi (not the whole confederation) sides with Broyan as the true High king. The others just sort of float away.
Karse stuff:
> Some years ago, Joerg and I tried pretty hard to make the Midkemia
> Carse work. I don't think it does - the Heortlings have dominated
> the place for too long. I think the farmers in the Suchara Vale are
> Heortlings,
DP puts them as clans part of Jondalor tribe, but independent due to their isolation.
as are most of the folk in the city, although the fisher-
> folk probably have their own customs and rites. Being an important
> trade emporia, Karse has lots of foreigners, which will give it a
> non-Heortling feel.
I'm definitely making it a cosmopolitan city, with a bit of an underside where you can get anything you need if you are willing to pay for it.
LC
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